Quote from: Benoist;412633Oh OK. That's what I thought at first.

Yeah, I definitely would not buy into the GW hype in any case. I have an RPG hobby already, and I'm thinking of 40K as a game to play on the side, get minis to play the wargamer and RPGs at the same time (maybe with some Dwarven Forge Sci-Fi sets way wayyy down the road), that sort of thing. That's why I was asking if skirmishes with relatively few units would be entertaining, as opposed to thousand-dollars armies I wouldn't be willing to invest in.

You could look at an alternative like No Limits:

http://wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html

The rules are free and contain rules for statting and assigning point costs to whatever minis you like.  I question how well balanced the forces you can make are in comparison to 40k, but you have a lot of flexibility to work up your own races and backgrouns.  The system has worked well for me for skirmish sized games.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;412659Just so you know:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2010/10/28/40457

It looks as though the company that makes at-43 is folding.  They're in talks to save their games, but who knows how that will pan out.

FUCK NO !!! :jaw-dropping:

I LOVE Rackham's Confrontation miniatures!

Quote from: Blackhand;412655As for making units up, well that's a different thing.  In your home games, you can do whatever the hell you want.

Just so you guys know, home play was implied. If I play 40K, that'd be with friends around here, not in a game store or official tournament or anything like that.

Quote from: Blackhand;412660Necromunda!  While ordering the miniatures, I actually ordered what I would need to run the Vostroyan squad as an "Unknown House" in Necromunda.  I've got a few extra swords with scabbards to glue on these minis (because I wanted them to have swords, dammit) and they will be a 1500 credit gang - half again what you need at the beginning of a Necromunda campaign!

So, I have my minis for House Semetov the RPG and House Semetov the Necromunda gang.  If I really want to, I can devise a way to use them in normal games of 40k in special scenarios or just to supplement my Imperial Guard as Veteran or Grenadier units.

That does sound very cool (neat miniatures for House Semetov too! Thumbs up). Does Necromunda take place in the 40K universe also, or is it just related on a game system point of view via the 2nd edition of 40K?

Can you use say Space Marines in Necromunda? (thinking of home play here)

Can you play an RPG using Necromunda rules for tactical battles?

Quote from: Benoist;412619Lots of useful advice. Thanks guys.


OK. What if I want say... to soften up targets with artillery/heavy weapons and then finish the job with moderately tough melee units?

Hah, that's pretty much almost any 40K army. Check out orks and space marines, since they both do it well. SMs means lots of characters, assault marines and devastator squads; orks means a giant mob of boyz advancing while crazy rockets and shit fly overhead into your enemies.

I really like the look of SMs. Maybe that's what I should go for. Are there important differences between the types of Space Marines factions? Blood Angels vs Space Marines vs Wolves vs Chaos SMs vs... am I forgetting any?

Quote from: Benoist;412674That does sound very cool (neat miniatures for House Semetov too! Thumbs up). Does Necromunda take place in the 40K universe also, or is it just related on a game system point of view via the 2nd edition of 40K?

Can you use say Space Marines in Necromunda? (thinking of home play here)

Can you play an RPG using Necromunda rules for tactical battles?

Necromunda is a hive world in the Imperium, and the default setting for the skirmish game (though our next game will be on "New Waco").  Almost all the Necromunda material is available for free from the Specialist Games website here.

It's not really designed for space marines or some of the crazier races, but the rules meat is good and it wouldn't take much work to drum up a gang list for any of the 40k armies.  Probably be limited to two or three marines for a 1000 creds though!  Necromunda is basically the same system as 40k, so you'll notice that almost all the games are basically translatable to one another (even the RPG).

It really is a setting that you can a do a lot with.  And lots of minis also!

Quote from: Benoist;412677I really like the look of SMs. Maybe that's what I should go for. Are there important differences between the types of Space Marines factions? Blood Angels vs Space Marines vs Wolves vs Chaos SMs vs... am I forgetting any?

Yeah. The two big divisions are between Chaos vs. Loyalist, and within Loyalist, whether Codex or non-Codex.

Chaos SMs are light on artillery, but have good melee units and good heavy weapons. They tend to be one of the smallest armies in the game when I last was playing against them, so every lost unit really hurts. Their characters are about as dangerous as tactical nuclear weapons.

Codex SMs are "vanilla", and are the baseline everyone else deviates from. They're well balanced, tough, and tend not to require too many models (compared to a horde army). They're the beginner army for most people, and I think they're well-built to accomplish that. They're your Imperial Fists, your Ultramarines, etc.

Non-codex SMs are your Blood Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves, etc. they're your "special snowflake" armies. They all have special characters you can pick if ubertwink special characters sounds like fun. In all three cases, they bulk up the assault aspect of the chapter.

Space wolves have different units than codex chapters, with an emphasis on assaulting, fast attacking and melee combat at the expense of heavy equipment (though they do get some). Playing SW is fairly different from codex SMs. You're mainly dealing with small numbers of highly elite units here, even by the standards of SMs. They seem to play somewhat similarly to Chaos SMs, and I've read a few stories of people using the Space Wolves codex to create a Chaos SM army.

Blood Angels have the possibility of going batshit and can get Death Company, who are good assault troops. Otherwise they're the closest to codex marines.

Black Templars have a totally different organisation than codex marines, are extremely assault oriented, and basically focus on putting out a big horde of marines to swarm your enemy with in hand to hand. It's not a huge horde (sez this IG player), but it's an incredibly tough, almost inexorable, horde. Also, no psykers and some cool special gear.

I have a Chaos Space Marine artillery army.  It stars 3 Vindicators and a ton of heavy weapons in squads.  Any army can do pretty much any schtick.  You can even do shooty orks and shooty 'nids.

Just depends on what units you like.  Like the look of the Blood Angels but don't really care for assault squads?  How about 3 Devastator Squads and some terminators, or maybe a land raider and 2 baal predators?

My buddy has a tyranid army he's just finished up, and goes on and on about how hand to hand with tyranids is for the win.  I have sworn to bring him to justice!  I will build a tyranid army with so many heavy guns after they are finished vomiting all over his hordes of gaunts I'll be able to sit back across the table and lob stuff until his tervigon dies of aids.  Can you say: twin linked Heavy Venom Cannon on a harpy??

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;412701Codex SMs are "vanilla", and are the baseline everyone else deviates from.

What do you call "Codex" armies and "Non-Codex" armies?  Are these armies using the baseline provided in the books of the same names, involving the battleforce sets or something else?

Quote from: Benoist;412712What do you call "Codex" armies and "Non-Codex" armies?  Are these armies using the baseline provided in the books of the same names, involving the battleforce sets or something else?

Uhh...this one's kinda silly so bear with us.

The Codex in one sense is the army's book.  Thus Codex: Space Marines, the book you buy from GW with your army's rules and stuff inside.

What we refer to as "Codex chapters" (i.e. vanilla marines) are marines whose chapters follow the tenets of the "fictional" Codex Astartes, the space marine bible of ass-kicking.  Imperial Fists and Ultramarines are well known examples of Codex chapters.

Non-Codex chapters are those who do not follow the Codex Astartes closely, or at all.  Non-Codex marines are traditionally represented by the chapter Codex, such as Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves or Black Templars.  However, it should be noted you can use any of the actual published Codeci, including Codex: Space Marines, to create a non-codex army.

For instance, you have Codex: Space Marines.  You feel your chapter is really old and should have lots of dreadnoughts and terminators.  Boom.  Load up on those units, name your chapter "Teh Rly FuNkY DoOdz" and paint them whatever colors you want, like teal and magenta.  

Your first opponent, Some Guy asks "Who are those teal and magenta funky dudes across the table from me?"  and then you tell him about your dudes are totally non-codex due to awesomeness, and how they partied across the galaxy to kick his ass today.  He then asks which codex you'll be using, to which you reply "Codex: Space Marines" or whichever one.  He goes "that's cool" and tells you about his eldar, the Space Elf Alliance.

That's how innovation goes in the 41st millenium.

Quote from: Benoist;412712What do you call "Codex" armies and "Non-Codex" armies?  Are these armies using the baseline provided in the books of the same names, involving the battleforce sets or something else?

No, I think your confusion stems from GWs use of the word Codex to describe not only their army books but also to describe the in game tactics and organization doctrine of the space marines.  Those that adhere most closely to the Codex Astartes are "Codex" chapters (Ultramines and Crimson Fists for example), versus non-codex like the Space Wolves and Blood Angles.  Codex and non-Codex are only used to describe loyalist marine chapters.

If you've got your heart set on 40k - that's fine, it's a good game for what it does.  Namely move large numbers of figures around a board.

However if you are looking for something a little more skirmish level, with more varied play and an equally rich theme I'll heartily recommend
Malifaux.  It's character level driven skirmishes that uses a card game for the randomization and special actions.  So good.

Bear with me guys. Complete 40K noob here. So when you say "I'm using my non-Codex Pigs in Space Chapter, based on the Space Marines Codex", you basically mean that you started from vanilla space marines and went custom on the actual composition of your army, correct?

Quote from: kryyst;412717However if you are looking for something a little more skirmish level, with more varied play and an equally rich theme I'll heartily recommend Malifaux.

I'm always open to suggestions.