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Author Topic: So, I played Dungeon World last night..  (Read 16550 times)

King of Old School

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2013, 05:06:54 PM »
Quote from: Imperator;640881
I have the feeling that the enthusiasm with AW and DW is more related with the indie community giving themselves permission to like a trad game because it has been designed by the right person.

This.

Of course, the corollary is that within the defenders-of-trad community, liking AW or DW is thoughtcrime because it was designed by the wrong person.

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Drohem

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2013, 12:09:45 PM »
Quote from: Bobloblah;640990
In other words he hid in a hole in the ground until the whole thing blew over?


Naturally, that's the bitter response of a cleric who's god failed to survive the great Deicide! ;) :D

Bobloblah

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2013, 02:14:49 PM »
Quote from: Drohem;641182
Naturally, that's the bitter response of a cleric who's god failed to survive the great Deicide! ;) :D

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Justin Alexander
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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2013, 03:21:10 PM »
Quote from: Imperator;640881
But what it has is a completely trad feeling. You do the exact same things you would be doing in any trad game, with identical procedures. (...) I have the feeling that the enthusiasm with AW and DW is more related with the indie community giving themselves permission to like a trad game because it has been designed by the right person.


I think this is an over-simplification because there is a qualitative difference in how AW associates its mechanics. (I'm only casually familiar with DW, so my comments may or may not apply to it.)

In a traditional RPG, the associated mechanics generally model specific, concrete actions. If we think of that as "tactical decision making", then AW features strategic decision making. The distinction is subtle, but radical.

For example, in D&D you'd make the non-mechanical decision to "fuck this shit" and bug out, but you'd make a specific mechanical decision to use the mechanics for breaking down a door to escape. In AW, on the other hand, you make the mechanical decision as a Gunlugger to "fuck this shit" and bug out, and then you'd make the non-mechanical decision that your strategic aim is accomplished by busting through the door.

The other major shift in AW is the idea of limiting the GM to a specific set of moves that they're allowed to perform. This not, IME, an actual constraint on the GM (because of how those moves are formulated). But it is a radically different way of looking at how the GM interacts with the game.

And I think this different POV (combined with how easy it is to hack the system) is why AW has attracted so much enthusiasm.

It's an RPG, not an STG. But it is also different from traditional RPGs in several key ways. Trying to gloss over those differences isn't useful or accurate.
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The Traveller

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2013, 05:22:36 PM »
Quote from: Justin Alexander;641262
For example, in D&D you'd make the non-mechanical decision to "fuck this shit" and bug out, but you'd make a specific mechanical decision to use the mechanics for breaking down a door to escape. In AW, on the other hand, you make the mechanical decision as a Gunlugger to "fuck this shit" and bug out, and then you'd make the non-mechanical decision that your strategic aim is accomplished by busting through the door.

That's just offloading the mechanics onto the GM though, in a freeform way. If I have this right, in a standard game the player decides to bug out, then make a kick down doors roll.

In AW, the player decides to bug out, makes a roll to determine how successful that idea was, and it's up to the GM to interpret that roll.

You've shifted and soft-focused the complexity from the setting and rules to the GM's imagination, which is typically neither a predictable nor an unlimited quantity and gets worn out like everything else as play progresses. I guess opposed rolls work in the same way, but basically its burden shifting.
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Spinachcat

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2013, 10:44:41 PM »
Quote from: Bobloblah;640842
Don't think I've heard anyone say quite that, although I've heard a lot of people say they found the game felt very "old-school" in play. Not sure what to make of that, myself. Maybe it just depends on what portion of the experience of playing an RPG one focuses/has always focused on?


"Feels Old School" = gives me the warm fuzzies I got when I was 12.

Even though I wave the OSR flag, the idea that there was some sort of "old school style" that all of us early gamers agreed upon hive mind style in the 80s is just ludicrous and speaks more of old fart memory deterioration and nostalgia driven revision.  

The terms "Monty Haul", "railroad", "rules lawyer" and "whiny little bitch" were well known around the game table even in those halcyon days of yore when Michael Jackson was black.

Tahmoh

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2013, 11:00:12 PM »
Well since leisure games has the paperback version for £16(or 30 for the hardback) i may just grab a copy next week and see what its like at my next rpg sesh in couple of weeks, at that price even if its abit shit(which it doesnt actually sound like it will be) i can at least get a few hours worth of reading out of it and probably steal a crapton of ideas.

Justin Alexander
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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2013, 02:03:11 AM »
Quote from: The Traveller;641329
If I have this right,


You don't. In fact, one of the first things AW tells you is that the player isn't allowed to name the mechanic without specifying their character's action (See page 12 of AW.) The way it works is:

Player: Fuck this shit. I bust down the door and get the hell out of there.
GM: Make a fuck this shit check.

Or you might have a situation where the "player has her character take an action that counts as a move, but doesn't realize it". In that case:

Player: I throw myself against the door, trying to bust through!
GM: You're saying "fuck this shit"?
Player: Yup.
GM: Make the check.

This is actually specifically what I meant when I said that glossing over the differences in AW's approach as compared to a traditional RPG isn't useful: It results in you completely screwing up the mechanics.
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Silverlion

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2013, 02:10:09 AM »
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;641469
Well since leisure games has the paperback version for £16(or 30 for the hardback) i may just grab a copy next week and see what its like at my next rpg sesh in couple of weeks, at that price even if its abit shit(which it doesnt actually sound like it will be) i can at least get a few hours worth of reading out of it and probably steal a crapton of ideas.




I hope you find it worthwhile, I bought a PDF and really wish I could pick up a hardback.
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The Traveller

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2013, 10:12:30 AM »
Quote from: Justin Alexander;641490
You don't. In fact, one of the first things AW tells you is that the player isn't allowed to name the mechanic without specifying their character's action (See page 12 of AW.) The way it works is:

Player: Fuck this shit. I bust down the door and get the hell out of there.
GM: Make a fuck this shit check.

Or you might have a situation where the "player has her character take an action that counts as a move, but doesn't realize it". In that case:

Player: I throw myself against the door, trying to bust through!
GM: You're saying "fuck this shit"?
Player: Yup.
GM: Make the check.

This is actually specifically what I meant when I said that glossing over the differences in AW's approach as compared to a traditional RPG isn't useful: It results in you completely screwing up the mechanics.
Who's glossing over anything, I'm trying to get a handle on what specifically makes AW different.

So "fuck this shit" is noted on the character sheet as a skill, described as "going somewhere in a big hurry and perhaps some disarray"? Or there is a general move called "fuck this shit", described similarly?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 10:16:18 AM by The Traveller »
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGs
If you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I'd choose a different game.

Tahmoh

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2013, 10:20:47 AM »
Quote from: Silverlion;641492
I hope you find it worthwhile, I bought a PDF and really wish I could pick up a hardback.


I can generallly find at least 1 or 2 things of use out of most rpg's i pick up even if the game itsself isnt much good, so im sure i'll get my monies worth out of it :)

The Ent

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2013, 06:29:28 AM »
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;641533
I can generallly find at least 1 or 2 things of use out of most rpg's i pick up even if the game itsself isnt much good, so im sure i'll get my monies worth out of it :)


Great attitude to have. :)

I basically bought Anima Beyond Fantasy for that reason (well and the art, especially in the monster book) - I doubt I'll ever run it.

Greentongue

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2013, 10:16:05 AM »
Quote from: The Traveller;641530
Who's glossing over anything, I'm trying to get a handle on what specifically makes AW different.

So "fuck this shit" is noted on the character sheet as a skill, described as "going somewhere in a big hurry and perhaps some disarray"? Or there is a general move called "fuck this shit", described similarly?

I'm trying to learn the system but I believe that it works like this.

Move: "Fuck This Shit!"
When your character decides that what is currently happening needs to stop,
Roll and on a 10+ choose 2 from the following. On a 9-7 choose 1 and GM provides a reaction to your proclamation.
On a 6 or less get -1 forward to next move due to lack of effort.

  • Leave location successfully
  • Break off interaction with any opponents
  • +1 forward to next Intervene move
  • +1 forward to next Defend move
==

Now I could be entirely wrong or just partially.
=
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 10:19:50 AM by Greentongue »

The Traveller

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2013, 11:10:00 AM »
Quote from: Greentongue;641721
I'm trying to learn the system but I believe that it works like this.

Okay, thanks that's a lot clearer. Do you feel it will lead to a lot of referencing result tables, or are there only a few moves, could you print out all the move tables on one A4 reference sheet?
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGs
If you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I'd choose a different game.

Drohem

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So, I played Dungeon World last night..
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2013, 12:58:02 PM »
Quote from: The Traveller;641733
Okay, thanks that's a lot clearer. Do you feel it will lead to a lot of referencing result tables, or are there only a few moves, could you print out all the move tables on one A4 reference sheet?


Here is the the Dungeon World Character Sheets PDF.

It contains the classes of Dungeon World and the Basic Moves for the class, as well as other class specific information.