Quote from: Jason Morningstar;403783You angry and/or confused guys should listen to the interview linked from the article. Julia's pretty articulate about her design goals and didn't create the game in a vacuum. And it's not like she lives on the moon; you can ask her questions directly. She's very nice and I'm sure she'd address your concerns thoughtfully.

I'm sure she is. The game is emphatically not my thing, but I have nothing against the designer. I was more bewildered by the actual play report than anything.

(Love Fiasco, by the way.)

While it may seem that RPGs are a poor medium for imparting seemingly obvious lessons, I have used AD&D for this purpose. I taught my players that 1) Slavery is bad. 2) If you don't want to break rocks for kobolds, you should probably take some hirelings into their lair with you next time.

Actually I played this game once, but my style didn't mesh with the GMs. I'm old school so I played as if it were a sandbox but he kept underground railroading us...

My blog entry for today is about it.

RPGPundit

Quote from: CRKrueger;403742Back to the blogger...Man, what I wouldn't have given to have played in the blogger's Star Wars campaign, from the description, it sounded awesome.

Abso-fucking-lutely!

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;403783You angry and/or confused guys should listen to the interview linked from the article. Julia's pretty articulate about her design goals and didn't create the game in a vacuum. And it's not like she lives on the moon; you can ask her questions directly. She's very nice and I'm sure she'd address your concerns thoughtfully.

You obviously listened to the interview, what were the design goals of this game?

Here's a link to the interview. Julia's contact information is linked above. She's the person to talk to about her game. Find out what's up, express your concern, learn about the game, have a dialogue.

sigh... so one person on the internet found Steal Away Jordan a tad disturbing, and all of sudden it's an example of how the indie movement is affecting our hobby, ruining it for everybody and demanding for the crusade.

I'm not into story gaming at all, but I actually met Julia Bond and some of my friends enjoys her games a lot, and branding Steal Away Jordan under the Swine-badbadbad-umbrella like pundit does on the blog based on this one "regular guys" post ("writing this often-offensive garbage. Many of them include sexual perversion or radical politics into the games under the guise of "dealing with mature themes") would be like me concluding something about the relationships of rpgsite-members based on that guy who had to mention his two wifes and several girlfriends in every post.

Quote from: CRKrueger;403814You obviously listened to the interview, what were the design goals of this game?

Don't bother, you should know the Forge's game by now.

Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;403825("writing this often-offensive garbage. Many of them include sexual perversion or radical politics into the games under the guise of "dealing with mature themes")

It's a recurring theme with some of the fuckers, though. Shock-jocks rely on the outrage of the many and the phony hipsters who jump onboard to cover up for their lack of talent.

I find Hot Chicks far more disturbing and (teehee) masturbatory.

For what it's worth, I've tried to run Steal Away Jordan at several of the last few indie gamer gatherings that I've been at.  However, I've never been able to get players.  So it doesn't seem to be a popularly played game.  

I am somewhat skeptical about some of the acclaim that the game originally received - along with Montsegur 1244 and Kagematsu.  It seems to me that they have gotten credit more for their topic rather than their actual game design.  

On the other hand, I don't think that the setting is uniquely off-limits.  I've played a number of historical scenarios which are about times that were quite miserable and/or lethal for the PCs.  Indeed, gamers constantly play WWII scenarios without being considered disrespectful for those who actually suffered and died in WWII, for example.

I remember Modern Warfare 2 catching a lot of flak for the opening sequence, where an undercover operative is put in a position where you can mow down tons of unarmed civilians (women, children, the whole bit) in an airport.

I also remember a mother recently appearing on TV speaking out against such games as being "disrespectful" towards soldiers and victims involved in current wars, and questioning how we "entertain" ourselves, because it treats situations that have destroyed lives and families as game-able subject matter.

I then remember soldiers commenting on the news article telling the bitch to fuck off, because they liked those games.

Now, I don't find playing a slave fun because that's my preference, but, yeah.  Maybe it could move someone else in a positive way, but it doesn't really sit well with me personally. Doesn't mean I should go on a tirade against it.

Quote from: jhkim;403857On the other hand, I don't think that the setting is uniquely off-limits.  I've played a number of historical scenarios which are about times that were quite miserable and/or lethal for the PCs.  

Absolutely. Then again, systems used for these games don't have hit points (or facsimiles of) called Worth. When you tie the offensive stuff to system they become a wholly different animal.

Quote from: One Horse Town;403863Absolutely. Then again, systems used for these games don't have hit points (or facsimiles of) called Worth. When you tie the offensive stuff to system they become a wholly different animal.

OK, so I get that you're offended by the game - but I'm not quite sure I get what it is that is offending.  If I could, I have a few questions for you or others - especially since I've been trying to find players for the game.  

First, are you saying that you would be fine with play slaves in antebellum America if I were using something like GURPS or Savage Worlds?  

Second, would it be just as offensive if it were a variant of the same system in a different setting - like playing slaves in ancient Rome such as Spartacus?

Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;403825sigh... so one person on the internet found Steal Away Jordan a tad disturbing, and all of sudden it's an example of how the indie movement is affecting our hobby, ruining it for everybody and demanding for the crusade.

Yeah, a regular guy thinks an indie games suck.

So what? If we find a regular guy that played Dogs in the Vineyard and has a blast, does that means that indie games are rad? What a silly argument.

I'm not interested at all in this game, and the premise of it puts me to sleep, but I don't see nothing special about it.

Quote from: jhkim;403857I am somewhat skeptical about some of the acclaim that the game originally received - along with Montsegur 1244 and Kagematsu.  It seems to me that they have gotten credit more for their topic rather than their actual game design.

I concur.  

QuoteOn the other hand, I don't think that the setting is uniquely off-limits.  I've played a number of historical scenarios which are about times that were quite miserable and/or lethal for the PCs.  Indeed, gamers constantly play WWII scenarios without being considered disrespectful for those who actually suffered and died in WWII, for example.

This, and a thousand times this.