Because I can't log into their forums for some oddball reason... and no, I'm not banned, I just can't get my log in to last past the log in screen on three different computers.

And because ranting about the game on their own forums is rude

First up: Underwater physics? Really?  You telling me its actually EASIER to program resistance based deceleration? Maybe it is, but seriously man, even high schoolers know these days that space doesn't work that way.  I want my internet spacyships to fly like fooken spacyships, not wet ships.

Second up: Missiles of all sorts.  Look, at distances of dozens, if not 100-200 kms, I understand it takes missiles a while to reach targets vs the supposedly relativistic speeds of railguns, the lightspeed of lasers and the 'really fucking fast but not really all that fast compared to lightspeed' of chemical projectiles...(assuming some sort of advanced propellent, at a minimum...)...

But seriously: There are ships that outfly missiles.  That's just wrong on so many levels.  More: what sort of whacked out logic makes it so that a 'larger explosion radius' means 'less damage against small targets'?  Never mind the logic of a kilometer plus length vessel (Battleships and capital ships) being able to outrun explosions... really now?   A similar argument could be made for drones, by the way. A small 'fast' unmanned drone being out run by even a fast 'manned' vessel several times its size is just...wow.

Tracking, targeting and sensor strengths/lock times:  First of all, due to the simple 'transversal equation' it is currently impossible to hit a ship at 'zero meters'.  Heck, its impossible to hit a battlestation from 0 meters, despite the fact that it is presumptively 1000's of times larger than most vessels, if not millions.... Never mind that, technically, 0m isn't really 'zero', as most times the two objects aren't actually touching.   Then there is the weird assumption that larger vessels have weaker sensors (only not true when dealing with ECM... which is fine if ECM weren't so over the top broken...). A frigate can lock a battle ship in under a second, while another battleship requires ten seconds (ball parked). For a battleship to lock a frigate requires nearly a minute... an eternity in the compressed time of most EVE fights. One could argue this is a resolution issue, but it shouldn't affect BS vs BS lock times.  The only defense a BS has against frigate class vessels is range, and with the lock times available, most frigates can easily close the distance. Without a reasonable equivilent for 'point defense' that doesn't actually gimp the ship in question, frigates are death to Battleships, which (excepting the 'Smart bomber') doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense outside of swarm tactics.

ON that note: size is king. Only, in reverse. A frigate in Eve is roughtly 50m in length, while a BS is typically well over a Kilometer. The mass difference is fairly extreme as you might imagine (though frequently, mass in EVE is made up of Handwavium numbers), as well as power.  Weapons don't quite scale directly however. A frigate 'railgun' ranges from 125mm to 150mm bore size, while a BS a hundred times his size fires 350-425mm bore sizes (leaving aside the outlying lower numbers) and, given class differences, may not even have 'more guns'.   A frigate, at less than 1% of the size of the battleship can expect to do at least some damage to the BS (again, outside of the Stealth Bombers...)... and given the current state of PVP, that 'some' translates to 'can kill without a significant (dozens?) of numbers).  Fair enough. However, the Frigate can almost literally not be targeted (exceedingly long lock times, a massive difference in target resolution meaning that even 90% of all hits are actually misses) and of course, out running the trackign speed of the turrents, even on ships (and with guns...) optimized for tracking.  More-ever: a frigate can also 'web' a battleship, reducing the speed of the BS to a virtual stand still. Think about that for a moment.. this is like having a pit bull grab the bumper of a Mack Truck and keeping it from rolling away.  Only slightly more forgivable is the logic that a frigate can 'warp scramble' at battleship, and only because we are talking about messing up the nav computers or some other crazy non-sense rather than somehow anchoring a ship in space.  Its still pretty wonky, made more so by the recent change to warp scrambling which makes a common speed booster (Micro-warp drive, basically a more powerful afterburner) scrambler-able. Again... dog vs tractor.

As you get bigger the size differentials become more extreme.  A cruiser is pretty bad ass against frigates for the most part, while a Battleship struggles slightly more against cruisers than the cruiser does against frigates.  A Dreadnaught (the next, and last, step up for direct damage dealing essentially...) struggles significantly to hit Battleships...  This is ignoring the two inbetween classes (destroyers and Battlecruisers... Destroyers fly like frigates with more guns and Battlecruisers are essentially fragile battleships with cruiser guns... they are hit like battleships and hit like cruisers... )

This leads to the fourth major issue: Balancing.  CCP (the company that makes EVE online) is constantly rejiggering things to bring balance, usually by nerfing.  Blasters, once kings of short range DPS becamed utterly useless as a SIDE EFFECT of a speed nerf, being utterly unable to track targets within their optimal range... even of a like class of ship!  Leaving aside the fact that tracking shouldn't be nearly the issue it is... the entire round of buff/nerf that regularly sweeps NEw Eden indicates a serious lack of 'baselines'.

What am I talking about?  Well, to be certain every ship in Eve has, aside from its basic statistics (mostly HP and module slots) its own distinct advantages and disadvantages, expressed as percentage increases based on skill.  For example a Megathron (a Gallente Battleship) gets a +5% Damage bonuse for large hybrids (rails and blasters), a +7.5% tracking bonus for (again) large hybrids, and a +7.5% bonus to armor repair modules... per level of "gallente Battleships'.... which like all skills caps at 5.  Thus any pilot who regularly flys such a ship can say they get +25% damage from their guns.

No ship (exception: free noob frigates, which are not considered) is 'bonus free'.  You would think, with a standard tracking bonus that is only found on Gallente Vessels (and the damage bonus for hybrids, also a Gallente only bonus (gallente is one of the four factions, they share hybrid weapons with Caldari, their enemies)) that a Gallente ship using blasters (a notionally 'high tracking weapon) should never suffer tracking penalites except in the most extreme cases.

Not so.  There is no baseline testing of changes, no baseline capability.  Simply put: A vessel with no particular bonus should be able to hit X under Y conditions. At a minimum, a vessel with no bonus should be able to hit a vessel of identical class at the default percentage of hits at its optimal range, regardless of the unboosted speed/transversal velocity of said vessel. A Battleship should not be able to orbit my battleship at 8km (well within my optimals, as I'm a rail guy) and only get half the time because of transversal unless he's doing some thign special to make his ship especially fast.  Double: If I'm using blasters (which, for Battleships, 8km is about as far as you can stretch taht optimal.. practically point blank here for BS combat...) I should be dealing massive hurt on the fucker.  No, orbiting him back isn't an option as it just adds transversal velocity... oddly enough.  Given that I'm flyign a 'tracking' ship at max skill, double ditto.   But there is no baseline, and nerfs have weird consequences like rendering certain weapons obsolete.  I use the blaster issue because it is currently one of the big issues with the player base: an entire weapon class has to be abandoned because they simply do not work.

Fifth Issue: The PvP elitist.  Eve is a Pvp'rs game, make no mistake. Three quarters of the available space (over 5000 seperate star systems... it is fakken huge!) is essentially a big old free fire zone, and there are numerous ways to 'grief' a player in the remaining quarter to create a fight (or, for that matter, suicide ganking, which is legal... kill another player's ship at the cost of your own..). In fact CCP regularly introduces changes to make it even more PvP freindly, or resists changes that reduce that (for example: Even the worst pirate scum in the galaxy automatically collects insurance when his ship is destroyed, even by the 'cops'.... and he can chose to insure it for more... and regularly does.  Suicide gankers can still loot the wrecks of their kills and are never 'pod killed'... ) and regularly makes 'carebearing'.. that is staying in High Sec empire space, harder and less profitable (moving the best NPC agents out to low-sec pirate space).  And really, there isn't anything wrong with that.

However: most of the PvP'rs take this attitude of entitlement to an extreme.  Remove all highsec, force all NPC agents out of high sec, stop paying people in game money to do anything in high sec... you name it they request it.  They bitch mightily at any of the (extremely lax) restrictions on their quest to force other people to let them kill them... and they have nothing but disparaging remarks for miners, mission runners and other 'carebears' on the forums and in the game chat windows.  

There are some problems with this: First of all, its utterly hypocritical.  Most Carebears have one account they play, virtually every Pvp'r has, at a minimum, two: one for doing stuff safely in high-sec, and usually more.  Truly dedicated 'nulsec' players will have easily two or three 'high sec' accounts.  That they consider their 'pvp' account their main is irrelevant, they are using the same systems they disparage other players for using.

Two: Its idiotic.  Eve, unlike most MMO's I'm familiar with is almost entirely 'player created' within its own framework.  Player based industry, trade (including moving of goods), resource gathering and so forth is almost the entirety of the in game economy.  The only real exceptions are 'Skill books, implants, and Blueprints', and of those two can come into the market (and do...) from mission runners, though in smaller numbers than the NPC sources.  Remove the Carebears completely and the elite PvP'rs will be restricted, very quickly, to flying noob ships.   It would require a complete change over from a player based economy (which, again, is a unique selling point of Eve) to an NPC, or worse 'loot drop' economy, making the game WoW in space (and, for many of the players, particularly the PvP elite, that is a fate worse than the death of the game...).

The reason this is a problem isn't just that its seriously annoying to put up with (and I've paid my dues in Nul-sec space...), but that CCP actually LISTENS to these fuckos more often than not, to the detriment of the game. It not only feeds their sense of entitlement, but actively works to make the game less attractive to people who don't much enjoy the PvP side of the game. Consider those utterly non-sensical 'warp scramblers' I mentioned above.  Arguably, people interested in PvP aren't going to run away from a fight, so those exist mostly to keep people who don't want to (and often... cant!) fight from running away.  Unlike the somewhat equally illogical 'webbers', which serve a role in shaping a fight without eliminating the 'run away' aspect so much.  Consider that all traffic between systems must occur at gates, and there aren't any real reasons not to camp said gates, disrupting trade among other things, or moving quality agents out of their own Empire space into uncontrolled low-sec...  or a change that occured shortly after I started playing: Warp core Stabilizers (preventing scrambles) were made to cripple your ship for combat (never mind that they are half the strength of most scramblers used, meaning you need twice as many of them as your presumptively multiple opponents need scramblers).  Never mind that CCP continues to use a system for their NPC's that makes mission running/ratting (killing NPCs for money) completely crippling in a PvP fight... always a bad idea, doubly so if your game is arguably focused around PvP. I hate to say it but I find it utterly immersion wrecking that a great combat fit for fights against NPCs is useless against players and vice versa.

Speaking of: NPC's are wonky fucking broken.  CCP recently introduced a new AI system for a very specific class of NPCs that most players will not encounter that is challenging... and bully for them. Most NPC's are dirt fucking poor in the brainpan department.  Further, they don't use anything remotely resembling the regular mechanics of the game. ECM from Rats ignores sensor strength, workign entirely at random regardless of the targeted ship.  Energy drain technology (which... seriously? Why the fuck does this exist in a supposedly somewhat hard sci fi setting?) is crippling against player ships and worthless against NPCs (they don't have/use cap...). Enemy ships never reload... and of course, though the game is designed aroudn modules applied to ships (and most modules are class based according to the ships that can/should use them...) their loot drops are random and frequently idiotic.   When a BS rat drops loot one fifth the time a frigate rat does, at least it could do me the courtesy of dropping BS guns and not a frigate gun. Seriously.    

Of course, technology doesn't make much sense anyway. Its little things: Swapping the frequency crystal on a laser is much faster than reloading ammuntion in any other weapon. I've already covered missiles and the whole 'underwater physics' aspect.  Then there is the energy drain technology... really? Seriously? How does this even work?  Never mind that, depending on which faction you play its seriously broken.  Hybrid gunships require massive cap just to keep shooting, never mind maintain an active tank (seriously: a low skill character can't remain cap stable with a full rack of guns even without a tank... a max skilled charater still has to mod his ship to hit 'stability'...), while a missile boat or projectile ship requires none. Obviously, given how easy it is to break a ship's cap stability, rendering it helpless, ships that don't require cap are more popular for PvP, despite arguably being more primative (never mind that most PvP'rs hate missiles, both for their obvious flaws AND because they view them a 'carebear' weapons...), and this leads back to the 'elite PvPr's' bitch earlier: Since the cap free 'projectiles' are obviously superior due to 'handwavium' energy drain technology, the fact that these are arguably primative weapons compared to lasers and railguns/blasters doesn't mean they should be inferior in game. Currently a big beef of the player base is that their artillery and autocannons are too weak, and CCP is seriously looking at buffing them, ignoring the reason they are 'weak' in the first place... again, no real baselines for stuff...

Also consider that the only way to activate one's 'warp drive' is to align to a celestial body (or bookmark'd random spot... nevertheless) and ships 'align' like molasses in January, though if you just log off you randomly warp instantly. People bitch about 'logoffski's' ditching PvP.  This wouldn't be an issue if Warping made much sense... that is you could just activate it blindly in emergencies (or, alternatively, and more popularly with the PvP crowd... couldn't emergency warp at all...) instead of having no real control over your ship.  Ditto ECM, which breaks 'lock' preventing you from targetting vessels (and lets also not cover the idea that flinging a chunk of lead through space at near lightspeed is remotely restricted by range, much less the ridiculously short ranges available (150Km is sniping range, though REAL snipers can hit 250km, then you run out of 'grid' and can't see the target...).  Now, I can see all sorts of information even when Im fully ECM'd, but I can't shoot? I can be nose to fucking nose with a vessel the size of a small town but if I'm jammed my guns are utterly useless? WTF?   Given this, the only real Ewar used in Eve is, in fact, ECM, and why not?  Its, as they say, OP.   Never mind that it ALSO has the stupidest counter module of all the EWar methods (being the only counter module that doesn't actually 'buff' your ship. It sucks up mod space and is utterly passive/useless until someone actually tries to ECM you, then... MAYBE it does its' thing and SOMETIMES prevents the jam. Maybe about a third the time...  Compare the 'Sensor Booster', counter to the 'Sensor Damper', which gives you longer targeting range and faster lock times even if no one is trying to damp you, or the Trackign Computer (which, as stated earlier is virtually required even on high tracking ships to hit anything up close), which boost tracking even when no one is 'tracking disrupting'... again with the nonsense technology there!  

You might ask, as many of the elite PvP crowd frequently does when someone talks about the crazy ways they get to overpower their opponents.. why not find another game?

You find me another Space based MMO, much less one even half as complex/cool, despite its many (many!) warts.  We won't even talk about the blatent cronyism/favoritism certain players frequently receive from the developers, mostly because you can mostly ignore that if you want to.  

Rant off...


(Ironically: none of this particular spate of ranting has anything at all to do with what I really want to talk about regarding Eve, which sadly only Eve experts (on their own forums...) should be able to help me out with: Are faction rails better than T2 rails, even accounting for the bonus of Rail Spec V, which doesn't apply to faction?... at what level of rail spec does T2 become better, if it is at all?)

This is why I don't play Eve Online.

I love mining and manufacturing.  

I love simulations thereof.

I find that actual manufacturing-related linear simplex problems are more fun than most video games that play at manufacturing.

You want a game with all the fun of Eve Online?  It's not exactly MMO, but here:
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/702998/description#description

Just try doing some real simulation.  It's way better than pwning n00bz.  You'll be hooked before you know it.


Eve Online is a bunch of bugs sold as features.

The mods claim that it's a player-run economy, but that's not entirely true, and anyway the limitless raw materials are always being arranged by programmers.  It's PVP swindling, not an economy, and it runs on fantasy ecology and fantasy physics.

The mods can't be bothered to keep it together, and they wouldn't be competent to do so if they could be bothered, thus they sell their hands-off attitude as a feature.  "It's a cut-throat competition simulator!"

I didn't know that about the PvP attitude. Thanks for this, I'd been considering trying out EVE Online and you just convinced me not to.

Spike, I'll answer the rail question, but first my own addition to your rant...


EVE is quite the pain, for the reasons you list and more.

I think the development was game first, and then an attempt to make a setting that matched the resulting concepts. So realism was never a question- but even then they failed because the game system is as whacked and unbalanced as you say.

From the beginning they've struggled with Speed (and speed tanking) and they've never brought it into balance even with wave after wave of changes. They only moved the offenders from ship class to ship class.

All MMORPGs share many of these problems of course to varying degrees. Balance is never right, and the match of the mechanics to setting is never true. EVE is just worse about it.

The worse is the PvP Elitism that you noted. I have never encountered a more openly evil player base than that in eve. Not only is the classic kill the noob mindset king (real PvP elite should wish to fight other PvP elite), but the game is flooded with game version of real world scam artists. Not that they aren't easy to ignore, but they are certainly a marker of the nature of the player base.

But EVE is just about the only starship based MMORPG that's at all interesting as you note. What a pity. And so like you- I'm playing it currently while trying to avoid all the crap you listed.



_________________
As to the question of tech II rails...there are tradeoffs for any of the Tech II/Faction weapons systems.

Tech II is needed to use tech II ammo and is much cheaper, and as you note- your specialist skill bonus only applies to Tech II modules meaning you lose that bonus.

On the other hand, generally the Faction is easier to fit with lower power or cpu requirements. This can allow you to equip an extra Weapon Upgrade Module that can easily offset the Weapon Specialist skill loss. Faction generally also provides some extra bonus (Missile Launchers hold more ammo, Railguns get a edge on range).

So IMO, here's what I consider my key decision points on which to go with in order of most important first:

1. Is it PvP? Go tech II, you can't afford to lose expensive faction gear in PvP.

2. Are you going to use tech II ammo? You have to go with tech II weapons.

3. Are you tight on fitting and can't squeeze in a desired module (or maybe two)? See if using faction modules can ease that up and allow them to fit. This may well give more benefit than the loss of the specialist skill.


In my Nighthawk, I use Caldari Navy Heavy Launchers and it allows me to add a second Ballistic Control System II (working on replacing these with faction as outside weapons- faction is just better) for greater DPS in total. It also frees up enough grid for me to add a turret weapon in that seventh slot (although I typically run with a drone link aug). The ship is used for missions only, and tech II ammo is too expensive for mission running.

However I should note that the faction Missile Launchers have more advantages over their tech II counterparts than faction rails. Thus I think you'll need some very specific fitting or usage needs to justify those faction rails...

It's not a game for everyone, but I enjoyed it quite a bit.  I spent most of my time doing rat missions, but I also did a fair deal of mining as well to supplement my income.

I sort of miss the game sometimes, but right now I don't have regular enough access to internet to play more often.

Eve is fun.

Quote from: gleichman;297450I have never encountered a more openly evil player base than that in eve. Not only is the classic kill the noob mindset king (real PvP elite should wish to fight other PvP elite), but the game is flooded with game version of real world scam artists. Not that they aren't easy to ignore, but they are certainly a marker of the nature of the player base.

Hmm.. White Wolf, dominated by griefer developers ... hired en masse to produce a MMORPG based on griefer gameplay ... coincidence?

By the way, games like Capitalism II aren't MMO, but they do offer a fun, shallow simulation of business.

There are online "realistic" business sims but I haven't made the time to find any and play them, so I don't know any games to suggest beyond those listed on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_business_simulation_video_games


They used to have a wiki page about a free online game intended for MBA students ... now I can't find it...

Quote from: riprock;297622Hmm.. White Wolf, dominated by griefer developers ... hired en masse to produce a MMORPG based on griefer gameplay ... coincidence?

To be fair, CCP was it's own company until White Wolf bought them.

Now I certainly think there was little coincidence that White Wolf brought a company and game like EVE...

I really wish there was another starship game out there. Heck, I'd even take a PvP focused starship game if it was *good* PvP instead of the lame version EVE gives.

But it has some attraction. You can make money as a crafter of nearly any level (something not true in most rpgs), and it has spaceships. It's best thing however is a very undemanding but still appealing looking client. It allows me to play a MMORPG with my son in the Coast Guard despite his underpowered laptop and weak Internet connection.



But I should note that EVE is typically in the top five most liked games at //www.mmorpg.com, so it has its die-hard fans.

And that says something depressing about a significant percentage of game players I think. Much like the fact that White Wolf was the #2 rpg for so long said something depressing about a significant percentage of rpg players.

But then, I think that D&D being #1 says something depressing about rpg players too

White Wolf didn't buy CCP.  It was the other way around.

EVE, at the high level corp end, is basically a libertarian, anarchocapitalist fantasy land.  Business is totally unregulated, even to the extent of open warfare, resources are effectively unlimited, and so of course endless war and espionage is the result.  

In some ways, it's sort of like cyberpunk in space.

I find the PvP element of Eve quite facinating actually... I don't participate except by... um... accident normally but as a microcosm of how 'real life' works, the PvP is quite interesting.  Ambush tactics and 'ganging up' to garauntee wins reflect to a large degree how real life does, in fact, tend to work with combat. Of course, the lack of actual death does mean its far more prevelant than I think it would be in real life, which offsets the lack of a real resources crunch that drives many real world wars.

I agree, however, that most of the player base does, in fact, highlight the worst in human tendancies in that they take savage pride in the greifing aspects of the game, the non-consensual PvP (that is, seeking out and attacking players who don't want to engage in PvP) and so forth.  I have, at times, entertained the idea of trying to create my own private server to enjoy, though I lack the technical ability to actually do that and the distinct nature of the market would remove some of the fun.

The main question on the rails was for to increase the DPS on my Mission Kronos, where fitting isn't really a challenge, and cost only marginly more-so.  I do know the raw damage of the faction guns is a bigger number, I also know that in the game that is not always an indicator of actual DPS (case in point: Blasters do the same raw damage as the equivilent rails, but double the DPS... and smaller guns do less raw damage, but often have equivilent DPS due to high rates of fire... somethign that I understand the T2 rails have over faction...)..

I'd EFT or Sisi it, but really.... its amazing I can even work a forum, much less do that crazy shit...

Eve is one of the worst games i've ever played. It's a monotonous, tedious, over complicated piece of utter utter shit with one single good idea: skills train in real time.

Everything else is horribly forgettable. I cannot fathom the appeal of this game at all.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

Don't hold back now, Ghost... tell us how you REALLY feel....  

Quote from: J Arcane;297652White Wolf didn't buy CCP.  It was the other way around.

You are of course correct, and I completely screwed that up.

I think my error likely came from all the whining on the EVE forum that White Wolf would ruin their game. They impressive they gave was that it was other way around.


Still, my basic point remains. There was a nature draw between the two companies although they started as different ones.

Quote from: J
In some ways, it's sort of like cyberpunk in space.[/QUOTEYeah.

Quote from: Spike;297655I find the PvP element of Eve quite facinating actually... I don't participate except by... um... accident normally but as a microcosm of how 'real life' works, the PvP is quite interesting.  Ambush tactics and 'ganging up' to garauntee wins reflect to a large degree how real life does, in fact, tend to work with combat.

It does and it doesn't work that way in real life. Or rather, certain types of behavior is far more common due to the fact that people don't really die- and that the forces of law and order have no ability to actually deal with issues.

That ruins the realism out of the gate, and what is left is pure griefing with the griefer protected. But I think that's basically what you've said.

Right now one of my corp members got themselves station camped in low sec (error on his part that he was even there). Need to figure out what to do about that, likely sneak away during the off hours. It's just not worth a huge dust up for small fish like us.

Or I can call in allies and have a big dust up...

Quote from: Spike;297655I have, at times, entertained the idea of trying to create my own private server to enjoy, though I lack the technical ability to actually do that and the distinct nature of the market would remove some of the fun.

How would that even be done?

Quote from: Spike;297655The main question on the rails was for to increase the DPS on my Mission Kronos, where fitting isn't really a challenge, and cost only marginly more-so.

I'd have to play with EFT then, it comes down to:

1. Tech II wpn + Specialist Bonus + Tech II Ammo (cost is only marginaly a challenge).

Vs.

1. Possible additional Weapon Upgrades due to reduced fitting.


Very ship/skill/exact fit dependent. As a general rule however, if you're happy with your current fit of weapon upgrades- I'd go with #1.

Gliechman:  BTW thanks for offering your view on the rails, its much appreciated and offers a slightly more in tune answer than the Eve-O thread I spawned.  Apparently only the very best 'Officer' drops out DPS at Spec V (which, honestly I only have on smalls. Larges are at 3... soo many skills, so little time...), and only Officer (at all) outdoes the spec damage.


To add a bit to my rant, one of my (many) problems is the high/mid/low breakdown of modules. Guns and missile launchers, and even the hated cap draining modules are all high slots, as are 'remote repair' modules. All well and good...

But ECM, Webbers and Scramblers, Target painters and the like are all Midslot items (competing with sheild gear, afterburners and active sensor/trackign mods, and SHOULD be competing with armor reppers... which are low slot mods...)... seriously: The logic is that high slot modules are meant to be used on things outside your ship (other ships!), yet here is an entire group of modules that are essentially weapon systems that don't actually compete with weapon systems for slots... am I the only one who sees that?

Or do I have some freakish talent with those old skool story problems of 'which of the following does not belong?' patterns?

High slots: Affect other ships (guns!)

Midslots: Affect your ship but are primarily active (exception for shield extenders and passive hardeners...) and are energy intensive

Lowslots: are passive modifications to the ship that operate in the background/require (theorectically...) re-engineering the ship. Think putting new shocks on your car.  Armor plates, More powerful engines, bigger cargo bays... yeah, I know, swapping out a new cargo bay for the old one doesn't really belong in the world of logical engineering of starships... not the way presented anyway...its a minor, practically necessary, glitch.