Quote from: SHARK on April 21, 2024, 11:08:21 PMGreetings!

Yep! Man, Avalon Hill was the greatest! I actually went to some game conventions way back, when I was on leave in the Marines, and at one convention I was playing Third Reich. It's actually "Rise and Decline of the Third Reich"--but somehow, it always got nerfed to just "Third Reich". Anyhow, some buddies went with me, and on one day, we were taking a break, and went into the game hall next to us--they had several enormous tables set up for miniatures wargaming. This one table, probably 12 x 12, it was enormous! It had this fantastic scene of the beaches at Normandy, with this little  village inland, hedgerows, trees, everything! They had weird netting set up like a foot or two higher than the board, with occasional Christmas lights. Then there were all these painted miniatures, infantry troops, artillery, tanks, half tracks and trucks. It was pure awesome! About a dozen older men gathered around, playing this game. The leader of the German side was this large, older black man, dressed in full Waffen SS Officer uniform, including a patch over one eye! *Laughing*

I found out he was a retired US Army Master Sergeant, a veteran of like, 30 years in the Army. His buddies were all Army, Marine, and Air Force veterans, as well. It was a spectacle! They definitely made an impression on me with miniatures wargaming!

But yes, the old Chit-style of wargame! *Laughing* I played Third Reich, Squad Leader, Russian Campaign, Russian Front, Panzer Blitz, and Panzer Leader! I had all the modules for Squad Leader, and Advanced Squad Leader. Yeah, and that big orange binder!!!! Tabbed rules and notations and everything. Rule 162.56. *Laughing*

Yeah, fun games! I don't think I could convince anyone near me to play them though, so I have them stashed away on my bookshelves. Hanging out, nice and pretty. I have kept them all in mint condition, too.

Have you made up your forces all awesome? Do you use any of the unit decals?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Man that scene of Normandy sounds familiar. I've seen some large displays, but probably nothing of that size. As for those Avalon Hill games, they could be a marathon but damn if they aren't fun! I'll have to check out that Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. I've been wanting to get a really big WWII game for a few years now, but I haven't found anything yet. Actually want to get a WWIII game by Compass Games but it's a monster. But for those games on your shelves, I hope you can find someone to game with them. Those things are practically gems.

As for my own forces for Bolt Action, most of them are painted. I've got a few platoons for Soviets, Germans, and a single Japanese platoon. I tend to stick to Soviets vs. Germans just because I find that theater so interesting to study. I only use unit decals on my tanks and vehicles, however. I've tried like hell to use the helmet decals for my Germans but it is way too difficult at that scale. I'd like one more platoon, but it'll either be Australians, Brazilians, or Italians. Not sure yet.

Squad Leader was the best.  And Advanced Squad Leader even more so.  I have all of them.
MBT and IDF from avalon hill were, to me, the best versions of Jim Days designs.

Bolt Action, being 'skirmishy' never appealed to me.

If you like SL/ASL, you will like 'Armored Fist'(ww2) and 'Modern War' by Walter Moore Games.(on wargamevault)
They are minis rulesets that cover a lot of detail, but is still quick and manageable.  and cheap.

Modern War is going to need more polish to add in all the drones and stuff.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 22, 2024, 08:55:29 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 21, 2024, 11:08:21 PMGreetings!

Yep! Man, Avalon Hill was the greatest! I actually went to some game conventions way back, when I was on leave in the Marines, and at one convention I was playing Third Reich. It's actually "Rise and Decline of the Third Reich"--but somehow, it always got nerfed to just "Third Reich". Anyhow, some buddies went with me, and on one day, we were taking a break, and went into the game hall next to us--they had several enormous tables set up for miniatures wargaming. This one table, probably 12 x 12, it was enormous! It had this fantastic scene of the beaches at Normandy, with this little  village inland, hedgerows, trees, everything! They had weird netting set up like a foot or two higher than the board, with occasional Christmas lights. Then there were all these painted miniatures, infantry troops, artillery, tanks, half tracks and trucks. It was pure awesome! About a dozen older men gathered around, playing this game. The leader of the German side was this large, older black man, dressed in full Waffen SS Officer uniform, including a patch over one eye! *Laughing*

I found out he was a retired US Army Master Sergeant, a veteran of like, 30 years in the Army. His buddies were all Army, Marine, and Air Force veterans, as well. It was a spectacle! They definitely made an impression on me with miniatures wargaming!

But yes, the old Chit-style of wargame! *Laughing* I played Third Reich, Squad Leader, Russian Campaign, Russian Front, Panzer Blitz, and Panzer Leader! I had all the modules for Squad Leader, and Advanced Squad Leader. Yeah, and that big orange binder!!!! Tabbed rules and notations and everything. Rule 162.56. *Laughing*

Yeah, fun games! I don't think I could convince anyone near me to play them though, so I have them stashed away on my bookshelves. Hanging out, nice and pretty. I have kept them all in mint condition, too.

Have you made up your forces all awesome? Do you use any of the unit decals?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Man that scene of Normandy sounds familiar. I've seen some large displays, but probably nothing of that size. As for those Avalon Hill games, they could be a marathon but damn if they aren't fun! I'll have to check out that Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. I've been wanting to get a really big WWII game for a few years now, but I haven't found anything yet. Actually want to get a WWIII game by Compass Games but it's a monster. But for those games on your shelves, I hope you can find someone to game with them. Those things are practically gems.

As for my own forces for Bolt Action, most of them are painted. I've got a few platoons for Soviets, Germans, and a single Japanese platoon. I tend to stick to Soviets vs. Germans just because I find that theater so interesting to study. I only use unit decals on my tanks and vehicles, however. I've tried like hell to use the helmet decals for my Germans but it is way too difficult at that scale. I'd like one more platoon, but it'll either be Australians, Brazilians, or Italians. Not sure yet.

Greetings!

So true, my friend! Yeah, I could never sell my Avalon Hill games. They are icons of my childhood. I got into wargaming before D&D, when I was like, in the 6th grade. Probably a natural progress of course from "Army Men." I'm not exactly sure, but I'm guessing there is a mental and intellectual shift there at about 10 years old--when you can make the leap from just playing with imagination, and then reaching a point where you combine that, with reading game manuals and playing with increasingly complex set of rules. Such a glorious time!

Australians, and Brazilians, huh? *Laughing*! Very nice! Damnit! I have likewise been chewing on being attracted to developing a force of British Commonwealth forces--Australians, Indians, Sikhs, Gurkas, and also some Nationalist China forces. There was actually *years* of brutal fighting that went on throughout China, Burma, and India!

Can you *IMAGINE* if the Empire of Japan had conquered India?

The British got a sad wake-up call when Japanese carrier stroke aircraft attacked and fucking sank the Renown and Prince of Wales from 300 miles away at sea. The poor, primitive British. Strangely, of course, because they also contributed to developing carrier airpower--like with their use of carrier airpower against both the Germans in the Atlantic, and the Italians in the Mediterranean. Somehow, though, in the Indian Ocean and Pacific, the British Navy never got the memo, and were stuck in World War I naval thinking.

The Imperial Japanese Navy actually raided the island of Ceylon and India, over there in the Indian ocean. While initially a raid--it definitely announced Japan's arrival, and demonstrated that it was the Japanese Empire that was the master of the seas. That was definitely clearing the deck for Japanese Marines to make landings against India. Meanwhile, the Japanese Army marched through Burma and into India!

While most of India remained loyal, there were elements within Indian society that viewed the Japanese Empire as liberators. The Japanese were certainly capable of taking out India. The British had their hands full scraping up equipment and supplies to support more troops to defend India. India of course had plenty of manpower--but an enormous supply of uniforms, guns, ammunition, and other equipment was needed to turn all that raw potential into actual army units that could resist the Japanese Army.

Britain was pathetically unprepared everywhere in Asia though. Malaya, Singapore, India, Burma. They were very weak, and ripe for being ruthlessly conquered by Japan. Just like how Japan fucking hammered America. America was in pathetic condition for war too. Gaming wise, of course, that is what makes these early years so interesting and dramatic--the Axis had a window of opportunity, with time ticking down. They had the troops, the power, and the momentum, but that window was rapidly closing against them. Could they conquer and win before the avalanche rose up against them?

It is insane when you really get into the economics and logistics of it all. Japan was down to like, 18 months of oil. Germany likewise was on increasingly shrinking oil rations as they invaded Russia. Time was ticking!!!!!

It is interesting though, how, in contrast to the glorious dreams of the Austrian Painter and the Japanese High Command--critical supplies like Oil have far-reaching effects on everything throughout the military, stretching into air sorties for aircraft, pilot training programs--Japan had pitiful Fighter-Pilot training hours, compared to America, which placed hundreds of hours of training before a pilot was ever sent to a front-line squadron. America also rotated actual combat aces back to the states to serve as training instructors for 6 month rotations. Germany nor japan could ever really afford to do that. Looking over so many economic factors, yeah, Germany and Japan--and yeah, Italy too!--were in many ways beginning the war on a shoestring. In every case, Germany, Italy, and Japan, their economies were tiny compared to the British Empire, the Soviet Union, and the United States.

The campaigns in Indonesia and India and Burma are very interesting. Certainly, as you develop your Japanese forces, the terrain and climate are absolutely brutal factors that influence the war, and the various battlefields. I think that there are some great opportunities within the Pacific theater for crafting and developing terrain pieces. Imagine the rivers, the elephant grass, lots of palm trees, bamboo groves, marshes and jungle plants! MOUNTAINS were massively difficult, as well. Just moving troops from Point A to Point B was a major process and adventure! It seems like nothing in the Asian and Pacific theaters was ever simple, quick, and easy. Gorges, mountains, flooding, diseases like Malaria, snakes, elephants, monsoon rains, all of these things could influence even a small military force just trying to march somewhere. *Laughing*

I'm hoping that I can do the camouflage paint scheme justice! The Japanese were also very good at using palm leaves and grass matting as part of their uniform camouflage.

I'm making some fresh coffee!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: orbitalair on April 23, 2024, 12:50:07 PMSquad Leader was the best.  And Advanced Squad Leader even more so.  I have all of them.
MBT and IDF from avalon hill were, to me, the best versions of Jim Days designs.

Bolt Action, being 'skirmishy' never appealed to me.

If you like SL/ASL, you will like 'Armored Fist'(ww2) and 'Modern War' by Walter Moore Games.(on wargamevault)
They are minis rulesets that cover a lot of detail, but is still quick and manageable.  and cheap.

Modern War is going to need more polish to add in all the drones and stuff.

Have you ever played Avalon Hill's  "Anzio"? I've played it a few times, and I really enjoy it. I like how you can play out alternative scenarios to see what a landing would've been like at another location. The step reduction system is intimidating on the onset, but it's really clever when you start playing with it. I'll have to check out "Modern War" that sounds like a really interesting wargame.

Quote from: SHARK on April 23, 2024, 05:01:20 PMCan you *IMAGINE* if the Empire of Japan had conquered India?

The British got a sad wake-up call when Japanese carrier stroke aircraft attacked and fucking sank the Renown and Prince of Wales from 300 miles away at sea. The poor, primitive British. Strangely, of course, because they also contributed to developing carrier airpower--like with their use of carrier airpower against both the Germans in the Atlantic, and the Italians in the Mediterranean. Somehow, though, in the Indian Ocean and Pacific, the British Navy never got the memo, and were stuck in World War I naval thinking.

The Imperial Japanese Navy actually raided the island of Ceylon and India, over there in the Indian ocean. While initially a raid--it definitely announced Japan's arrival, and demonstrated that it was the Japanese Empire that was the master of the seas. That was definitely clearing the deck for Japanese Marines to make landings against India. Meanwhile, the Japanese Army marched through Burma and into India!

While most of India remained loyal, there were elements within Indian society that viewed the Japanese Empire as liberators. The Japanese were certainly capable of taking out India. The British had their hands full scraping up equipment and supplies to support more troops to defend India. India of course had plenty of manpower--but an enormous supply of uniforms, guns, ammunition, and other equipment was needed to turn all that raw potential into actual army units that could resist the Japanese Army.

Britain was pathetically unprepared everywhere in Asia though. Malaya, Singapore, India, Burma. They were very weak, and ripe for being ruthlessly conquered by Japan. Just like how Japan fucking hammered America. America was in pathetic condition for war too. Gaming wise, of course, that is what makes these early years so interesting and dramatic--the Axis had a window of opportunity, with time ticking down. They had the troops, the power, and the momentum, but that window was rapidly closing against them. Could they conquer and win before the avalanche rose up against them?

It is insane when you really get into the economics and logistics of it all. Japan was down to like, 18 months of oil. Germany likewise was on increasingly shrinking oil rations as they invaded Russia. Time was ticking!!!!!

It is interesting though, how, in contrast to the glorious dreams of the Austrian Painter and the Japanese High Command--critical supplies like Oil have far-reaching effects on everything throughout the military, stretching into air sorties for aircraft, pilot training programs--Japan had pitiful Fighter-Pilot training hours, compared to America, which placed hundreds of hours of training before a pilot was ever sent to a front-line squadron. America also rotated actual combat aces back to the states to serve as training instructors for 6 month rotations. Germany nor japan could ever really afford to do that. Looking over so many economic factors, yeah, Germany and Japan--and yeah, Italy too!--were in many ways beginning the war on a shoestring. In every case, Germany, Italy, and Japan, their economies were tiny compared to the British Empire, the Soviet Union, and the United States.

The campaigns in Indonesia and India and Burma are very interesting. Certainly, as you develop your Japanese forces, the terrain and climate are absolutely brutal factors that influence the war, and the various battlefields. I think that there are some great opportunities within the Pacific theater for crafting and developing terrain pieces. Imagine the rivers, the elephant grass, lots of palm trees, bamboo groves, marshes and jungle plants! MOUNTAINS were massively difficult, as well. Just moving troops from Point A to Point B was a major process and adventure! It seems like nothing in the Asian and Pacific theaters was ever simple, quick, and easy. Gorges, mountains, flooding, diseases like Malaria, snakes, elephants, monsoon rains, all of these things could influence even a small military force just trying to march somewhere. *Laughing*

I'm hoping that I can do the camouflage paint scheme justice! The Japanese were also very good at using palm leaves and grass matting as part of their uniform camouflage.

I'm making some fresh coffee!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

That's one of the parts of WWII history that always fascinated me since I was a kid. There are so many single points you can look at and realize how close the Axis was to victory and the Allies to defeat. As insane as Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union was, they very well could have done it had a few small differences occurred. Or perhaps what if Operation Sealion happened instead of Barbarossa? Would Germany remove Britain as an enemy, or would it have motivated the Soviets to move in?

As for Japan vs. The United States, I remember wondering why Japan would attack the U.S. as a kid not understanding that the Japanese had their own internal struggles. And then again, what if that gambit worked? It's nuts to think about. I mean seriously, you could write a 10 volume series on WWII and probably still have to leave out parts. Each nations' internal struggles, external struggles, critical points, failures, accidental successes. View points from High Command down to the lowest enlisted all with their own story to tell.

Then when you consider just how much the war itself influenced in the last 87 years. I mean it practically shaped our modern conflicts, relations, culture, politics, etc. It makes me wonder how similar we are to post-Punic Wars Rome, or Europe after Napoleon's Wars.

Greetings!

Oh yeah! So many little points of conflict and strategy that balanced on a knife edge!

With Sea Lion, it is not widely known--but the German Luftwaffe was very close to annihilating British air power over Britain. Maybe just a few more weeks of constant focus and hammering of British radar stations and airfields, and the RAF would have been crushed entirely. Lots of chain "Ifs" involved, but plausible. Once the RAF was crushed, German air superiority over Britain and the English Channel would have check mated British naval power operating within the English Channel. From there, Britain would not likely have been able to defeat an airborne assault made by 20,000 German Fallschirmjagers--which is precisely how the Germans overwhelmed and conquered the island of Crete. First, air superiority; then, checking the naval superiority; thus enabling a bold airborne assault, which was then supported by amphibious troops and reinforcements from sea. The Greeks and British forces holding out in Crete were thus doomed, and Germany was eventually victorious.

Germany, following that similar strategy, could have proceeded with Sea Lion. The Fallschirmjager could seize a port or two, and then be reinforced with additional invasion forces. Can you imagine the 7th Panzer Division--the "Ghost Division" of Erwin Rommel unleashed at Dover? Guderian leading more panzers into London. The British after Dunkirk had a decent army of 300,000 plus troops in Britain, though they had very little artillery, trucks, or tanks, and honestly, not even much rifles, machine guns, or other infantry support equipment. Churchill himself said that Britain was next to empty, with nothing but broom handles and beer bottles to resist a German invasion with! *Laughing*

That would not have boded well for a German invasion force of well-equipped infantry, Panzers, lots of artillery, while the skies were filled with Messerschmidt's, Heinkel bombers, and of course, the infamous Ju-97 "Stuka" Dive Bomber. Britain would have thus likely fallen by Christmas of 1940, or sometime in the spring of 1941. Can you imagine if *that* had happened?

Of course, following from that epic disaster for the Allies--when the Reich then turned East afterwards to launch Barbarossa against the Soviet Union--imagine Barbarossa being waged with +25% more German ground troops and tanks--and +40% more of the Luftwaffe--and, ZERO prospect of there ever being any kind of "Second Front." No North Africa campaign. No invasion of Siciliy and Italy. Italy never being knocked out of the war. And no invasion of Normandy. Just as importantly--NO STRATEGIC AIR WAR crushing German cities to ashes and grinding German industry down. And no need to keep 40% of the Luftwaffe or more, guarding the skies over the Reich.

That, and with the increase in manpower--no need to keep 20 German divisions in Norway, or 20 divisions in Yuhoslavia, or 300,000 troops in North Africa. All that, and more--would have been able to be sent against the Soviet Union. Oh, yes, and NO LEND LEASE CONVOYS to Russia, bringing the Soviet Union tons and tons of valuable supplies, tanks, trucks, clothes, food, radios, train locomotives, and the precious high-octane AVIATION FUEL--which made the Red Air Force able to field dangerous and competitive fighters, ground attack aircraft and bombers in the Red Air Force. All of that would have gone away. And, furthermore, an unleashed Italy and a German Afrika Corps under Rommel could then certainly have swept victoriously into Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and--the Caucuses region of southern Russia.

Yeah, as can be seen, the domino effects all cascading together, stacking up--the Soviet Union would have likely gone down as well, eventually. Then you would have a German Reich and Italian Empire dominating all of Europe from Britain to the Ural Mountains, and from Norway to the Congo in Africa, and the entire Middle East as well. Both Iraq and Iran were moving closer to being allies of the Reich. So, yeah, that is likely what would have happened. Then, you would have Rommel on the Indian border at the Kyber pass from the West, looking to invade India from the West--while the Japanese Empire was invading India from the East.

Truly mind-boggling!

Interestingly, this is exactly the scenario envisioned by the American High Command, as seen in the 1942-made government film, "Why We Fight!" The US high command were very well versed in the whole immense importance of the grand strategy of "The Heartland." Basically, controlling Europe from Britain to the Ural Mountains in Russia is "The Heartland" and the resource keys to enforcing absolute dominion outwards over the entire globe. THAT is exactly what we were very worried about happening looking at the war in the spring of 1942 through the smoke and ashes of Pearl Harbour.

All this talk about "Nah, the Axis never had a chance. That's all BS." All that kind of talk is smug arrogance, triumphalism, and borne from the comfort of hindsight and being victorious.

I remember my own father telling me that yeah, the Axis could have won the war. Damn right we were worried about winning. He told me it was not a sure thing at all. We had a very long and hard struggle facing us, everywhere.

It was definitely not a forgone conclusion in 1941 or 1942, maybe not even in 1943.

Thankfully, though, the Axis powers of Germany, Italy, and Japan, all had the troops, the power, and the momentum to achieve victory--but they also suffered from several critical strategic thinking mistakes that ultimately cost them the war--and would end with them all being crushed by fire and ashes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK