TheRPGSite

Just recently acquired some old D&D style pc video games.  (A friend gave them to me).  Some stuff I decided to try out today:

- Pool of Radiance:  Ruins of Myth Drannor
- Diablo II
- Baldur's Gate II:  Shadows of Amn
- Neverwinter Nights

On a first few tries, these games seem kind of mundane meh.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what's suppose to be fascinating about these particular video games.

I didn't really play these types of video games in the past.  The last several video games I spent a lot of time playing, were titles like:  "Grand Theft Auto III", "Grand Theft Auto:  Vice City", and the original Quake (from the 1990's).

Shadows of Amn is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally good.

NWN is a great way to play D&D if you don't have a group, because it's freakin' D&D. And lots and lots of user-created content.

Diablo is where Blizzard perfected the "intermittent series of rewards" Skinner box formula they use in WoW.

I thought the Baldur's Gate series were lots of fun too. And Icewind Dale.

Oddly enough, when the original Quake came out I was really unimpressed with it.

Oddly enough, I find myself wanting to go back to playing in my previous 4E Encounters game (which abruptly died last month), than playing further in any of these D&D style video games.

EDIT:  (A day ago, I never thought I would ever be saying something like this!)

I sorta get what you're saying. The bug comes and goes. I bought a copy of Avernum VI (http://www.avernum.com/avernum6/index.html) a little while back, played it intensely for about a week, then lost intererest.

huh, I thought this would be about old ones.  Zork or Adventure maybe.  Dungeons & Dragons the computerized boardgame.  Or maybe even Dungeons & Dragons for the Intellivision.

You kids get off of my lawn!

Quote from: David Johansen;435224huh, I thought this would be about old ones.  Zork or Adventure maybe.  Dungeons & Dragons the computerized boardgame.  Or maybe even Dungeons & Dragons for the Intellivision.

You kids get off of my lawn!

Pool of Radiance is pretty damn old isn't it?

I remember Zork. Fuck Zork in its stupid ass!

Quote from: David Johansen;435224huh, I thought this would be about old ones.  Zork or Adventure maybe.  Dungeons & Dragons the computerized boardgame.  Or maybe even Dungeons & Dragons for the Intellivision.

You kids get off of my lawn!

I use to play the atari 2600 version of Adventure a lot.

Zork I never really got into.

Other similar style games I was into in those days:  "Sword of Fargoal" and "Temple of Apshai" (on a vic 20).

I played the D&D game for Intellivision a few times.  Never really got into it.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435223I sorta get what you're saying. The bug comes and goes. I bought a copy of Avernum VI (http://www.avernum.com/avernum6/index.html) a little while back, played it intensely for about a week, then lost intererest.

At least your interest lasted about a week.

My interest didn't even last a few hours, for each of these four games.

(http://www.toplessrobot.com/Dungeonboardgame.jpg)

:cool:

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435231(http://www.toplessrobot.com/Dungeonboardgame.jpg)

:cool:

Dungeon! boardgame was cool.

I played it again a few months ago, after not playing for a looooong time.

Quote from: ggroy;435232Dungeon! boardgame was cool.

I played it again a few months ago.

Played the holy hell out of it when I was a kid. I still have a copy somewhere, I think.

I'm more into Runebound these days.

Hm. Not meaning to threadjack here, the comment about the D&D video boardgame just reminded me.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435233Played the holy hell out of it when I was a kid.

Same here.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435233I still have a copy somewhere, I think.

I found my old copy awhile ago, when I was last at my parents' house.

NWN is one of my favorite games ever, if not for the lackluster campaign, then for the toolbox nature.  It IS the 3e PHB, MM, and DMG in digital format, because the toolset is extremely intuitive and easy to use, the ability to run live games with the DM client, and the ability to download user-created modules.  It's a toolbox as much as it is a game, and the closest analogue to tabletop PC gaming has.

Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale are stronger single-player games, though.

Diablo II is mindless fun, but repetitive.  Pool of Radiance is a turd-sandwich, and generally loathed as one of the worst D&D CRPGs ever.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435226Pool of Radiance is pretty damn old isn't it?

1988.

My friend also gave me a cd-rom pack, which had something like twelve Forgotten Realms pc games from the late 1980's and early-mid 1990's.  It was called "The Forgotten Realms Archives".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forgotten_Realms_Archives

But I wasn't able to run any of these old games on my computer.

(Will probably have to run a virtual machine to get any of these games to run).

Quote from: Peregrin;435235Diablo II is mindless fun, but repetitive.

It seemed that way.  Repetitive mouse clicking galore.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435231(http://www.toplessrobot.com/Dungeonboardgame.jpg)

:cool:

My brothers and I played the shit out of that game.  I mean it's coming apart from use.  The box is held together by duct tape.  I feel like we played it every day, but it was probably more like every week.  I still have "The NEW Dungeon!" game as well, but it lacked the charm of the original:

(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic183293_md.jpg)

Alright, I don't want to thread crap all over the place either.  Maybe the problem really is that the games aren't old enough.  Here, try this Pool of Radiance:

(http://www.hmtk.com/wp-content/uploads/1075413081-00-196x300.jpg)

Quote from: ggroy;4352371988.

My friend also gave me a cd-rom pack, which had something like twelve Forgotten Realms pc games from the late 1980's and early-mid 1990's.  It was called "The Forgotten Realms Archives".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forgotten_Realms_Archives

But I wasn't able to run any of these old games on my computer.

(Will probably have to run a virtual machine to get any of these games to run).

If you do get them up and running, I think you should try the Eye of the Beholder series, for variety.  They're a strange hybrid of first-person dungeon crawl in real time with turn-based combat.

I think my favorite dungeon crawl type game was Ultima Underworld (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpuTbxkaZ94). That battle music is seared into my brain.

I remember not being able to win the game because I threw a bottle of port into the volcano, and later I needed one for some quest or other, and there was only one bottle in the entire underworld. Wah wah.

We had a TRS-80. It was all about the Dungeons of Daggorath (http://iloveglory.freehostia.com/daggorath/index.html)


(http://iloveglory.freehostia.com/daggorath/css00008.jpg)

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435220Diablo is where Blizzard perfected the "intermittent series of rewards" Skinner box formula they use in WoW.

Yep. They took the formula of Rogue with randomly-generated dungeons full of random monsters which dropped random treasure, took away the ability to eat the corpses, gave it svga graphics and put a grimdark 90's storyline with FORCES OF HELL on top of it. Great fun.

Quote from: ggroy;435229I use to play the atari 2600 version of Adventure a lot.

Zork I never really got into.

Other similar style games I was into in those days:  "Sword of Fargoal" and "Temple of Apshai" (on a vic 20).

I played the D&D game for Intellivision a few times.  Never really got into it.

Temple of Apshai...boy, that's been a LONG while.

There are D&D intellivision games....the minotaur one is best by far, although the archer one is ok.

Diablo is one of those games that takes time to really enjoy. Titan Quest/Immortal throne totally p'wns it, though.

I got a hair up my ass a few months ago about re-playing the Wizardry series and its been addictive fun.   I am currently doing the Knight of Diamonds . . . and there are hippos as wandering monsters!

Quote from: Spinachcat;435387I got a hair up my ass a few months ago about re-playing the Wizardry series and its been addictive fun.   I am currently doing the Knight of Diamonds . . . and there are hippos as wandering monsters!

I'd like to take this opportunity to share this picture of a park ranger fleeing an enraged hippopotamus.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/24/article-1208479-06277461000005DC-34_634x286.jpg)

Wizardry VI - Bane of the Cosmic Forge was my favorite of the series, though, regrettably, there were no hippos in that particular installment.

I had great fun with Diablo and Diablo II. I was far more addicted to those two than I ever was with WoW.

For some strange reason, I found Diablo II to be not very addictive and kinda on the boring side.  (I never played Diablo II back when it was first released a decade ago).

I played the old Gold Box SSI series, albeit I had more fun with the lower level ones (Pool of Radiance)

I've enjoyed the Baldur's Gate series as well (particularly 2/Shadows of Amn)

I liked Neverwinter Nights (not the AOL one, yes I remember the AOL one which was nice but costly for a net game back then..) I am rather fond of the persistent worlds, but not as much as the MMO's I currently enjoy.

I enjoyed many of the non licensed fantasy games as well (early Ultima, Ultima Underworld) As well as the Bard's Tale and Might and Magic series (classic Dungeon crawl not the tactics ones.)

Though none of them came close to the love I have for playing with friends--even MMO's don't touch that. Though the closest was a DMed module of Neverwinter Nights with voice chat. Albeit that needs players who aren't just there for a speedy XP run.

Today I decided to play "Grand Theft Auto III", "Grand Theft Auto:  Vice City", and the original Quake (from the 1990's) again.  (Haven't played these particular video games in over 7-12+ years).

I don't know if I'm just getting old and tired, but these games don't "play" like they use to (from 6-7+ years ago).  They seemed routine and mundane, after playing them for an hour or two.

I remember I use to be able to play these games for many hours on end, in a "Skinner box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber)" addictive manner.  Now I get bored very quickly, regardless of whether I'm on a winning streak roll or fumbling repeatedly at a frustrating bottleneck.

Quote from: winkingbishop;435240I still have "The NEW Dungeon!" game as well, but it lacked the charm of the original:

How much different was the "NEW Dungeon!" from the original?

What exactly was the charm of the original, besides being played to death?

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435245I think my favorite dungeon crawl type game was Ultima Underworld (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpuTbxkaZ94). That battle music is seared into my brain.

This game and its sequels changed me forever!  So atmospheric.

My recommendation for an old D&D style game is Four Crystals of Trazere, (also known as Legend I think), which is free to use on dosbox:

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/1054/Four+Crystals+Of+Trazere,+The.html

It's got a brilliant "make your own spell" system for the wizard using different combinations of reagents and runes that I've never really seen the likes of since.  I'd love to figure out a similar system for an RPG but it'd be a bit beyond me.

Presumably no one's mentioned Nethack or Angband because everyone knows them.

Would old console games like Zelda count?  They sure as hell leveraged D&D's popularity to make their mark on popular culture.

I sometimes played Nethack in its ascii form, on various linux/unix workstations 10-15+ years ago.  It was an amusing fun timewaster at the time, which wasn't a mud/mush/moo.

I never really got into Zelda or other fantasy-like video games on the original Nintendo.  I only had a few games for the Nintendo, like "Kung-Fu Master (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung-Fu_Master)", Super Mario Bros 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._2), Hogan's Alley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan%27s_Alley_%28video_game%29), etc ...  I didn't really play it much after awhile.

Quote from: Cole;435411Wizardry VI - Bane of the Cosmic Forge was my favorite of the series, though, regrettably, there were no hippos in that particular installment.

Crusaders of the Dark Savant has space-faring, musket-brandishing rhinoceri, though, which is only one of the reasons why it is my favourite old school CRPG. :cool:

Dark Savant is also very "AD&D" - there is even a strong Gygaxian preference for obscure polearms and weapon nomenclature (it is not a short sword, it is a baselard, and it is not a plate helmet, it is a heaume).

Quote from: Melan;436308Crusaders of the Dark Savant has space-faring, musket-brandishing rhinoceri, though, which is only one of the reasons why it is my favourite old school CRPG. :cool:

Dark Savant is also very "AD&D" - there is even a strong Gygaxian preference for obscure polearms and weapon nomenclature (it is not a short sword, it is a baselard, and it is not a plate helmet, it is a heaume).

Definitely! Dark Savant was a very promising game, but also seemed like many of the adventure areas, etc., were not very well filled out...I think the game suffered from its developments schedule, see also, rerelease as wizardry gold, etc., without things being fixed. It was a really attractive, ambitous game, I just think gameplay was better in 5, 6, or 8

Oh gawd, Dark Savant...wandering monsters EVERYWHERE. Hellfire, you'd search the corpses of the wandering monsters for loot, and inside the corpses would be MORE wandering monsters.

I went pretty far in the before just giving up.

Quote from: Doom;436339Oh gawd, Dark Savant...wandering monsters EVERYWHERE. Hellfire, you'd search the corpses of the wandering monsters for loot, and inside the corpses would be MORE wandering monsters.

(http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5500764/Yo-dawg-we-heard-you-like-wandering-monsters-so-we-put-monsters-in-yo-monster-so-you-can-have-an-enc.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=yo-dawg)

Quote from: Cole;436310Definitely! Dark Savant was a very promising game, but also seemed like many of the adventure areas, etc., were not very well filled out...I think the game suffered from its developments schedule, see also, rerelease as wizardry gold, etc., without things being fixed. It was a really attractive, ambitous game, I just think gameplay was better in 5, 6, or 8

Yeah, there were entire huge areas that were sort of empty except for crazy powerful monsters - like the entire Greater and Lesser Wilds, or the areas around the seas. I remember trying to figure out what the cross-shaped clearing in one of the wildernesses was for... since it had one (1) square that looked like cobbled road, but there was nothing in it. It does have an interesting vibe to it, though - as if Lost Guardia was really about small pockets of intelligent life in a vast wilderness. It sort of worked, even though it can be viewed as flawed from a critical perspective.

On the other hand, it also had spaceships, spells, complex and rewarding character-building (which computers really excel at), cool puzzles, diplomacy, amazons on rocket sleds, demon summoning, strange semi-philosophical puzzles, a sky city with glass walls, the **LIGHT SWORD**, a nuclear hand grenade (sort of), climbing up on mountains and one of the best computer game villains (plus lots of memorable NPCs). Crusaders was also extremely, bitterly, irrationally hard. Today, that would get a game written off as badly designed, plus there are all sorts of trainers, walkthroughs and forums where you only need to ask to get help. We just had to deal with it, which isn't about us being manly men for completing a computer game, just a tremendous feeling of accomplishment when you actually got through a stage of the game, like defeating the Shadow Guardian or finishing Rattkin Ruins. By God that felt earned.

I don't know if something like that could still work, but if that crazy guy in his bomb shelter ever finishes Grimoire (http://grimoiresystems.com.au/goldenera/?page_id=10), I will be lining up cash in hand to buy a copy. Yeah I will.

Quote from: Melan;436560Yeah, there were entire huge areas that were sort of empty except for crazy powerful monsters - like the entire Greater and Lesser Wilds, or the areas around the seas. I remember trying to figure out what the cross-shaped clearing in one of the wildernesses was for... since it had one (1) square that looked like cobbled road, but there was nothing in it. It does have an interesting vibe to it, though - as if Lost Guardia was really about small pockets of intelligent life in a vast wilderness. It sort of worked, even though it can be viewed as flawed from a critical perspective.

This is what my problem with the game boiled down to. There was just too much "blank" space. I remember that weird little cross clearing/stone square too!

QuoteOn the other hand, it also had spaceships, spells, complex and rewarding character-building (which computers really excel at), cool puzzles, diplomacy, amazons on rocket sleds, demon summoning, strange semi-philosophical puzzles, a sky city with glass walls, the **LIGHT SWORD**, a nuclear hand grenade (sort of), climbing up on mountains and one of the best computer game villains (plus lots of memorable NPCs).

Certainly there's a lot to love. I'd love to play a tabletop RPG set in Lost Guardia as a setting. All of the various races were cool in their way. I remember thinking it was kind of a wasted opportunity that you couldn't recruit Gorn or Dane or Rattkin NPC party members in the inns.

QuoteI don't know if something like that could still work, but if that crazy guy in his bomb shelter ever finishes Grimoire (http://grimoiresystems.com.au/goldenera/?page_id=10), I will be lining up cash in hand to buy a copy. Yeah I will.

Haha, so would I!

Quote from: Peregrin;436362(http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5500764/Yo-dawg-we-heard-you-like-wandering-monsters-so-we-put-monsters-in-yo-monster-so-you-can-have-an-enc.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=yo-dawg)

It's a digression, yes, but it would be a cool feature to have a sublevel of a mega-dungeon that was contained in an extradimensional space inside a wandering monster. That sublevel would, of course, have its own wandering monsters. Maybe each round of combat with the original wandering monster, you would make a wandering monster check to see if any monsters wandered out of its mouth to encounter the party.

That place actually exists in Final Fantasy VI. There is an enormously powerful wandering monster that also functions as a mobile mini-dungeon somewhere in the game world. A recruitable character lives in it.

God bless Japan for thinking of everything.

Quote from: Melan;436568That place actually exists in Final Fantasy VI. There is an enormously powerful wandering monster that also functions as a mobile mini-dungeon somewhere in the game world. A recruitable character lives in it.

God bless Japan for thinking of everything.

I had forgotten about that!

Gogo the Mime. (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gogo_(Final_Fantasy_VI))

Quote from: Melan;436568That place actually exists in Final Fantasy VI. There is an enormously powerful wandering monster that also functions as a mobile mini-dungeon somewhere in the game world. A recruitable character lives in it.

God bless Japan for thinking of everything.

Also Disgaea and its item worlds: every equipment comes with an embeded 100 levels dungeon packed with monsters. Japan is really the mother lode of wandering monsters.

I played for a little while Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright:_The_Gorgon's_Alliance) game back in the 90s. The graphics sucked, the game was riddled with bugs, but it was an original mix of strategy and RPG.

Quote from: Hairfoot;436046Presumably no one's mentioned Nethack or Angband because everyone knows them.

Or because they seared them from memory?

Christ, the hours I burned on freakin' Angband.

I failed to get into Neverwinter Nights the first couple times I tried it... but once I got a bit farther it became a lot of fun. The later installments where you get out into the countryside were MUCH more moody had sidequests to discover and explore... I liked that at night it gets really dark outside and more dangerous. The first time I ran into a troll out there was actually pretty scary.

Lately I've started playing the Final Fantasy series... because I never touched one before and have only heard of their vast fan following... but damn, the first two at least are very repetitive and... kinda like work. Grind, grind, grind... grind some more... get a word bubble from the princes... grind, grind, grind. I'm not sure I've got the will to continue on to the third one...
I enjoyed Zelda, the Golden Sun series, Summon Night, the Mana series... but the FF stuff is leaving me wondering why they are so popular.

Over the last year or so, I was picking up various old video game strategy guides at some local second handed book stores for around 4 or 5 bucks a pop (or less).  Some occasionally showed up in the "free books" boxes at nearby libraries.  (Video game books older than 5 years old or so, don't seem to have much resale value).

I mainly picked up these strategy guides for pleasure reading, regardless of whether I ever played the particular video games or not.  For the few video games I've played, what I found odd was that the strategy guide books were more interesting to read than actually playing the video game itself.

It sort of reminds of old Atari 2600 or Intellivision games which had more interesting box artwork and instruction books, than the actual gameplay itself (which was frequently lackluster).

I think Bethesda games ilke Morrowind are the most vulnerable to that. I find reading the strategy guide gives me a better idea of the story than reading a page or two in-game, in between bouts of smacking monsters and looting ruins.

It's remotely related to D&D based computer RPGs but I enjoyed  playing Dungeon Keeper 2 lately (like every few years). It's a game where you shape dungeons and try to satisfy your monsters (goblins, dark elves, vampires etc..) needs so they will fight the good fight against the goody two shoes heroes who try to kick your ass in waves. The game allegedly is abandonware and you can find iso files on the web. I promise at least 20 hours of fun if you enjoy the gameplay.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435245I think my favorite dungeon crawl type game was Ultima Underworld (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpuTbxkaZ94). That battle music is seared into my brain.

You can wake me up in the middle of the night and I can immediatelly rattle off the runes for the two big spells that weren't in the manual. You know, the special one you got from the Will-o-the-wisp, and the one you got out of a certain door...

I loved the Bard's Tale on my C64.  When Wizardry was finally released for the C64 I was in heaven.  Then I discovered it was nearly a direct port from the 1981 apple II release (and was thus just wireframe graphics and some sprites that popped up for the encounters) I was a little less happy.  I loved the (earlier edition) Temple of Apshai.  I got Pool of Radiance but late in my C= 8-bit ownership, didn't complete it unfortunately.

I skipped most CRPGs on my Amiga (although I wish I'd waited until I had it before trying The Bard's Tale - that game really made the Amiga) except for Faery Tale Adventure (which I don't think I ever properly won).  I played some Roguelike on the Amiga for about five minutes: ASCII graphics on a machine that was touted as the graphic wonder of the 90s didn't really do it for me.

I was so enamored of FPS's on the PC I didn't really touch cRPGs until Diablo, but man I loved Baldur's Gate when it hit.  Especially once I figured out the invisibility+AI off+item 'sploit :D  Hm, then Diablo 2, made a few stabs at Morrowind before getting serious and beating the pants off of it, then I must've played an enormous amount of GTA:SA (which is an RPG, it's just a violent, modern, crime-themed sandbox RPG), Oblivion and right now I'm having fun with the (relative) openness of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. : Shadow of Chernobyl which, for at least the first run through the finale underneath the titular reactor, has some good tense scare parts.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;435231(http://www.toplessrobot.com/Dungeonboardgame.jpg)

:cool:

TOTAL WIN.  This broke my gaming cherry at the tender age of 9.

I remember when people thought this was Satan worship.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;443903I skipped most CRPGs on my Amiga

Besides some early CRPG type games like:  Adventure on the Atari 2600, Temple of Apshai + Sword of Fargoal on a Commodore Vic20, etc ... in the 1980's and some internet muds + nethack in the early 1990's, I pretty much dropped CRPG type games altogether for 10-15+ years (until recently, as mentioned in the OP).

After dropping muds and CRPG type games altogether, I was wasting a lot of time on stuff like usenet, listservs, IRC and other non-mud type chat rooms over the rest of the 1990's.

By the time it was 2001 or so, usenet, listservs, non-mud chat rooms, muds, etc ... were falling out of favor and/or largely abandoned en masse.  By then, I started wasting a lot of time playing Grand Theft Auto 3, and later Vice City.  (I never really got into GTA San Andreas or GTA4.  Imho, GTA:SA and GTA4 seemed like it was "complexity for the sake of complexity").

Quote from: thedungeondelver;443903I was so enamored of FPS's on the PC I didn't really touch cRPGs until Diablo,

Same here.  Though I was only really playing Doom and the first Quake in single player mode.  (Never really got into multiplayer games of Doom and Quake).   Didn't really get into other FPS type games, other than Grand Theft Auto 3 and Vice City.

Hey, Dungeon Master (hope that's the name) on the Amiga was plenty fun, first first person dungeon game.

Fairy Tale Adventure was charming enough, and I played way too much Rogue--talk about a waste of Amiga's graphics capability.

Bard's Tale I, II, and III on my C-64 I remember well. The first was the only one that was good.

Anyone else remember Wizard's Crown? That was an awesome game, the first one wtih real tactical combat (even a goblin could crush your veteran fighter if you let him get behind you), with wandering monsters, secret doors, alchemy, all sorts of 'old school' stuff that they don't put in games any more.

How about Sword of Aragon? It was semi-rpg, semi wargame, and all fun, trying to assemble armies (which also gained levels) to fight things. I can hardly remember what the game was  about, but I have a warm fuzzy memory it was a good thing.

I don't reckon Defender of the Crown, Rocket Ranger, and Sinbad were really RPGs, but Cinemaware made some awesome and unique games.

Car Wars was plenty fun, too...more fun than the tabletop game, IMO.

I'm sure a few more will bubble up out of my memory.

I do remember always being called a spendthrift in Apshai...can't spend the gold in the dungeon, after all.

Were there any computer wargames which replicated the old Avalon Hill and SPI hex-n-chit style wargames from the 1970's?

Quote from: thedungeondelver;443903I skipped most CRPGs on my Amiga (although I wish I'd waited until I had it before trying The Bard's Tale - that game really made the Amiga) except for Faery Tale Adventure (which I don't think I ever properly won).

If you missed FATE: The Gates of Dawn, you missed out. One of the most ambitious CRPGs out there. Granted, it was probably never sold in the States. (And since I didn't have an Amiga, I could only play it much later on an emulator)

Quote from: Doom;444149Anyone else remember Wizard's Crown? That was an awesome game, the first one wtih real tactical combat (even a goblin could crush your veteran fighter if you let him get behind you), with wandering monsters, secret doors, alchemy, all sorts of 'old school' stuff that they don't put in games any more.

Wizard's Crown was awesome. I'm still trying to crack a copy I have to make think it is the original disk so I can use the utilities to reset the dungeons.

Quote from: ggroy;444159Were there any computer wargames which replicated the old Avalon Hill and SPI hex-n-chit style wargames from the 1970's?

Really seems like there were, but I'm hard pressed to name any.

Gary Grigsby made a few (and he's still making games over at Matrixgames).

Kampfgruppe is the only thing that comes to mind. There was a "cold war turns into hot war" game that definitely used a hex map and all that stuff, can't recall the name, sorry.

I'll think about it, maybe one or two more will come to mind.

Quote from: two_fishes;435246We had a TRS-80. It was all about the Dungeons of Daggorath (http://iloveglory.freehostia.com/daggorath/index.html)

I had a Color Computer 3 myself.  Probably my all time favorite computer. Only my LC II comes close.  

I didn't play many RPGs on it though, it was kind of an underrepresented genre on the system sadly.  Most of the ones I've played I didn't discover until years later.  

There are some good one's though.  Jeff's Caladuril and 7th Link games (http://www.distantsystems.com/personal/jeff/coco.htm) are the biggest standouts.  He's even got instructions on how to get them going in MESS, though it's probably easier to use Vcc (http://vcc.20x.cc/).

Quote from: Cole;436567It's a digression, yes, but it would be a cool feature to have a sublevel of a mega-dungeon that was contained in an extradimensional space inside a wandering monster. That sublevel would, of course, have its own wandering monsters. Maybe each round of combat with the original wandering monster, you would make a wandering monster check to see if any monsters wandered out of its mouth to encounter the party.

Someone just put a game like that out very recently, in fact.  Check it out: http://insideastarfilledsky.net/

Quote from: ggroy;444159Were there any computer wargames which replicated the old Avalon Hill and SPI hex-n-chit style wargames from the 1970's?

The square grid was used perhaps more often than the hexagonal, and certainly more often than in board games. Also, new designs were more common than direct conversions. The general 'feel' of many games nonetheless seemed to me very similar to that of classic AH/ SPI games.

Wargames were a specialty of Strategic Simulations Incorporated (which also did several RPGs and got the license for the first official Advanced D&D games and Dungeon Master's Assistant).

Strategic Studies Group was another, and of course Avalon Hill's Microcomputer Games division published wargames, including adaptations of such AH titles as Wooden Ships & Iron Men.

Wargames were not big sellers, though. An article published in early 1988 estimated that there were only 15,000 to 20,000 dedicated computer wargamers in the United States, and that it was difficult to reach a broader market. Thus, as companies got bigger they tended to make fewer wargames. Only MicroProse had gotten sales into the 'gold' and 'platinum' levels (100.000 and 250,000 units respectively).

screenshot from SSG's Halls of Montezuma
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/202671-halls-of-montezuma-a-battle-history-of-the-united-states-marine.png)

FYI, it looks like Stardock is having a sale on a lot of these old games...

Seanchai

Speaking of, Impulse blows goats, but if you're a fan of classic PC games, you really should have a GOG.com  (http://gog.com)account.  

They've got loads of old games.  Apropos to the thread, they have like the entire Might and Magic series, the Realms of Arkania games, the Krondor game, Temple of Elemental Evil, NWN, and more.

And none of it for more than $10.  Most are $6 or less.

They do have a good selection, but I like //www.gamersgate.com, myself, they have a ton of cool things, too, more even, and they use a better layout in my opinion.