Honestly, I'm convinced Anita doesn't have any legitimate beef at all. Everything I've seen from her when she's not wearing her Feminist Pop Culture Critic hat has given me the distinct impression she doesn't give a rat's ass about video games, nor that she's even particularly bothered about feminism. Near as I can tell, Full McIntosh is the one with the ideology and agenda, Anita basically just seems to be in it for the money.

Quote from: woodsmoke;793873Honestly, I'm convinced Anita doesn't have any legitimate beef at all. Everything I've seen from her when she's not wearing her Feminist Pop Culture Critic hat has given me the distinct impression she doesn't give a rat's ass about video games, nor that she's even particularly bothered about feminism. Near as I can tell, Full McIntosh is the one with the ideology and agenda, Anita basically just seems to be in it for the money.

You're right. She's the front man, with the charisma and cunning, while McBoy is the would-be guru/cult leader looking to be gaming's answer to LaRouche.

One thing we should all bear in mind about this and other SJW issues... we should all just shut up, relax, and let it happen - it'll be over soon.

The hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness of these people is stunning.

Quote from: Werekoala;793902One thing we should all bear in mind about this and other SJW issues... we should all just shut up, relax, and let it happen - it'll be over soon.

The hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness of these people is stunning.

Possibly.  And I agree that the most vocal SJWs have hijacked a legitimate cause just to slander people they don't like.

But here's the thing.  This gamergate stuff?  Look at this forum alone.  We have people saying that the assholes who are harassing and threatening people don't represent the gamergate movement as a whole, we shouldn't tar everyone, etc.  And those are all true things.  But what I haven't seen is an actual effort by pro gamergate people to denounce this behavior whenever they see it.

I've made it very clear in the past just how much disdain I have for much of the SJW clique because their entire "argument' is to fight against harassment and doxing and threats while at the same time ignoring their side making threats, doxing, and harassing others.  That level of hypocrisy just pisses me off.  So if I am to have any integrity, and if pro GG folks want to take any sort of high ground, we must immediately and quickly shut down the misogynists and dickbags.  We cannot simply just ignore them while saying, "Hey man, don't judge me like them because we aren't all like that." or "I don't condone that behavior" only when asked or accused.  We must be proactive in addressing this.

Otherwise we aren't much different than the SJW clique.

It's just like Tea Party members should be the first to shut down racists because they're the first to see it.  And like protestors should be the first people to shut down vandalizing anarchists.  If you don't want to be accused of approving of dickbaggery, police your own group and shut down the dickbags.

Going to break my 'f this' separation for linking purposes:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2014/10/22/357826882/pew-gaming-is-least-welcoming-online-space-for-women

a) Computer science =/= gaming or video game development - if you want correlation = causation, check the dates in that graph with H1B visas from, oh, India? Might open your eyes a bit more. Also, holy shit look at all the female Engineers - Dilbert and Wally will be ecstatic!

b) So we're all Islamic Terrorists now - I mean, fer reals bro, how many times have we heard that JUST because most terrorists are Muslim, that not all Muslims are terrorists? But it doesn't apply in anyyyyyyy other situation.

Nice!

Quote from: Sacrosanct;793925So if I am to have any integrity, and if pro GG folks want to take any sort of high ground, we must immediately and quickly shut down the misogynists and dickbags.  We cannot simply just ignore them while saying, "Hey man, don't judge me like them because we aren't all like that." or "I don't condone that behavior" only when asked or accused.  We must be proactive in addressing this.

Otherwise we aren't much different than the SJW clique.

Well, yes, in theory - but how do you shut down free speech, yet claim to fight against those who would shut down free speech?

Maybe talk to them, reason with them, convince them of the importance of moderating their rhetoric (good luck, with gamers on the internet?) - but maybe we can reason with them. However, I will never vote with the "shut them down" crowd, no matter who "they" are trying to shut down. If nothing else, free speech makes it far easier to identify the assholes, instead of driving them underground.

Quote from: Werekoala;793932Well, yes, in theory - but how do you shut down free speech, yet claim to fight against those who would shut down free speech?

Maybe talk to them, reason with them, convince them of the importance of moderating their rhetoric (good luck, with gamers on the internet?) - but maybe we can reason with them. However, I will never vote with the "shut them down" crowd, no matter who "they" are trying to shut down.

Furthermore, it's playing to the SJW strengths, and you can't win that way.

The funniest thing to come out of GamerGate:

http://www.themarysue.com/gamergate-ant/

Also:
http://www.shaenon.com/ladygaming.html

(be sure to click on the 'Next' at bottom)

If you are constantly on the defensive and apologising for whatever random asshole that has attached themselves to your group, then you have effectively been silenced. The conversation devolves into "maybe we'll address your concerns when you purge this guy" and "oh we still aren't going to take your views as legitimate because some new asshole showed up and spouted something stupid and he says he's on your side." The actual issue never gets addressed.
   The key IMO is to stay strictly on topic. Refuse to be defined by a smear.

Quote from: Pmir;793936If you are constantly on the defensive and apologising for whatever random asshole that has attached themselves to your group, then you have effectively been silenced. The conversation devolves into "maybe we'll address your concerns when you purge this guy" and "oh we still aren't going to take your views as legitimate because some new asshole showed up and spouted something stupid and he says he's on your side." The actual issue never gets addressed.
   The key IMO is to stay strictly on topic. Refuse to be defined by a smear.

Well said. Again, this goes back to my "We're all Islamic Terrorists now" comment. The cartoon posted by Will is pretty much on-topic until the last panel. When things go completely off the rails into LoonyTown Station is when that last panel is added. Just because there are members of a larger group who have radical, crazy, stupid ideas does NOT mean opponents of that group should have some moral "high ground" to paint the entire group with that ideology.

And yet... they do. Odd, that.

The difference between this situation and Islamic Terrorism is that, broadly, the goals of the GG criminals and the GG non-criminals are largely the same, while those of Islamic terrorists and Islamic non-terrorists are not.

Quote from: Will;793939The difference between this situation and Islamic Terrorism is that, broadly, the goals of the GG criminals and the GG non-criminals are largely the same, while those of Islamic terrorists and Islamic non-terrorists are not.

The difference between this situation and GamerGate is that, broadly, the goals of the Islamic Terrorists and the Muslim Religion are largely the same, while those of GG nutcases and GG as a whole are not.

Islam is an evangelical religion, in that they desire (in fact, insist) that the population of the entire world be converted to Islam. It's just that the terroristic faction of the religion employs a bit more, shall we say, percussive persuasion to the Infidels.

Ipso facto, Islamic terrorism is in line with the goals of the Muslim faith. Yet you would not speak harshly of the entire Muslim faith, I presume?

I thought you said your leaving the conversation for good Will.

Keep going Will - you do it long enough, awfulpurple will have to take you back.