Quote from: Ghost Whistler;649307Why are people still clinging to the notion that MHR was some kind of Stan Lee Simulator? I've literally never heard so much nonsense!

You should read some of your posts (those in this thread will do) out loud, then.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;649307Why are people still clinging to the notion that MHR was some kind of Stan Lee Simulator? I've literally never heard so much nonsense!

I picked up a copy today, out of curiosity, after having only skimmed through the thing when it first came out and read some reviews.

I will endeavor to approach it with an open mind just for you, GW, but as a bit of an unfashionable dullard, I do worry that the innovations may be over my head.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;649307Why are people still clinging to the notion that MHR was some kind of Stan Lee Simulator? I've literally never heard so much nonsense!

Because it's exactly how the game presents itself, and what it's built to achieve.

Quote from: Endless Flight;648983They might have made more money just taking the old TSR game, slightly tweaking it, and putting new stats in the back for all the heroes and villains. Not sure of the legality of that though, as I'm not sure Marvel actually owned the game itself. I'm almost certain DC owns DC Heroes though, which IMO is better than what actually has happened: them licensing out their heroes and villains for Mutants & Masterminds.

TSR owned the game system and Marvel owned the rights to the characters, and long ago the system was released for free online with tacit approval from WoTC, who couldn't do anything with it anyways due to the split rights issue.

So basically, you can get the entire gameline (one of the most heavily supported gamelines in history) for free in pdf form at any number of sites (MarvelClassic is my favourite), and there have been numerous fan updates /reworkings of the system, including the 4C retroclone, the Dillygreenbean games one, and Icons, which just slapped a Fudge resolution mechanic on the game.

Quote from: Gabriel2;649053That was a mercy killing, and also no loss.  That was absolutely unplayable drek.  I'd even posit the hypothesis that it poisoned any potential audience against any future Marvel game.  I know the craptacularity of Marvel Universe definitely contributed to me not picking up Marvel Heroic out of curiousity.

Funny, its one of my favourite systems. It wasn't explained well (although those of us that got the preview in Inquest released before the game found all the rules very clearly laid out in that 5-page document so the gamebook was just a resource), the layout was confusing, and the writing was drek. But the system was gold.

Quote from: TristramEvans;649383Funny, its one of my favourite systems. It wasn't explained well (although those of us that got the preview in Inquest released before the game found all the rules very clearly laid out in that 5-page document so the gamebook was just a resource), the layout was confusing, and the writing was drek. But the system was gold.

Was that the system with the stones? Because, that system was quite good, and like the first Marvel RPG (FASERIP), ahead of it's time.

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;649384Was that the system with the stones? Because, that system was quite good, and like the first Marvel RPG (FASERIP), ahead of it's time.

Thats the one. I'd love to rework it sometime. Maybe after I finish my update/genericization of the original FASERIP rules.

MHRP is one of the worst game books I've read in years.  

It was ludicrously overdesigned and overcomplicated half the time, and utterly underdeveloped and oversimplified in others, the writing was sloppy, the rules explanations denser than Hulk's thigh bones, and of course it all hinged on bizarre metagaming bullshit instead of even the pretense that the game world was anything but something invented for the players to go through pre-written adventure railroads with only minimal contribution while still having the illusion of freedom.

It was every single fucking thing that is wrong in RPGs all in one disgusting jumble, like a bucket of corn-syrup-glazed chicken topped with transfat flakes served in a slurry of hydrolyzed soy protein and washed down with raw vegan wheatgrass juice.

Its failure is just about the most predictable thing I can imagine.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;649122Are most superhero RPGs similar, or are they completely different from each other?  I come from the camp that wants superheroes to fit in with regular joe characters without changing the skill check mechanic.

What does this mean?
Could you unpack that a bit..?

A universal skill/task check that can be used the same way whether your character is Joe Shmoe average, or Hulk Buster way-above-average.  I'm just talking about the die mechanic.  Individual character quests are a different thing.  Joe Shmoe may not have much impact on the fabric of time and space, while another character stresses a lot about it.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;649426A universal skill/task check that can be used the same way whether your character is Joe Shmoe average, or Hulk Buster way-above-average.  I'm just talking about the die mechanic.  Individual character quests are a different thing.  Joe Shmoe may not have much impact on the fabric of time and space, while another character stresses a lot about it.

OK thanks...are there any systems that change the basic skill check mechanics for super characters vs. normal characters, though? I can't think of any (why I was puzzled I guess).

Licensed settings are a terrible idea always always always. Also, I didn't like the game. I tried to read it because I've never been interested in superheroic gaming and I thought that maybe it could be worth a check. Not worth my time. Don't like the Cortex system.

Quote from: Benoist;649366Because it's exactly how the game presents itself, and what it's built to achieve.

except that it isn't. at all.

I think I've had it explained to me that it's not a superhero rpg, it's a comic book rpg. In that it means things are more likely to happen truer to the comics - wasp saving the day, a lamppost (D8 asset) falls over and cracks the bad guy on the head just as he's about to press the button and the power of a characters monologue (Captain America etc) might be enough to have the villains shed a tear and pledge allegiance to the flag before they are carted off in chains. That's why there are no traditional stats - strength, agility etc, and you get all these traits and distinctions and what not instead.

That's how I understand it. From my point of view it was possibly the best way I've seen (thus far) of combining Robin and Superman (or Daredevil and Thor) on the same team without the weaker characters player feeling redundant. On the flipside its not a traditional game and had me grinding my teeth when I got it. It is still an RPG, despite this 'other games' tag on here, but it's an odd one that brings strong characters down and weak characters up to meet in the middle.

Anyway, it's gone. I'm sad for the folks at MWP who really busted a gut on this thing, but it's another failed Marvel RPG, and probably forgotten about in a year save for die hard fans.

As for the Marvel Universe (Diceless) game, it was poorly written, but there is a gem of an idea in there. Just need to fix the death spiral (have health points separate from energy. Done.) and change the 'all in then nothing' approach of combat. I introduced dice to my fix, and whilst it's not finished you can compare stones to a target number or use some/all of your stones to roll a die, so that you might get less bang for buck, or more, but it spices things up.

It seems like just yesterday I had intended to run a premiere party at ICON dressed as The Watcher before my head prosthetic was crushed by two girls making out in a hotel room (long story, and FAR less exciting than it sounds). However, I think now MWP is free to take what they learned from MHR and improve upon it.

I think the biggest killer (as in killed the line) feature were the dice requirements. I literally never had enough dice to run it, and I have more than 5 sets. And at this point if you want an RPG to be mainstream, it needs to come with everything you need at point of purchase.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;649019I'm not particularly ANGRY at Marvel...but after three aborted Marvel RPG runs in a row, I can't imagine ever getting excited about another Marvel RPG again, regardless of the promises, mechanics or designers.

Marvel Universe was killed for internal political reasons.

And of all the RPG licenses out there, Marvel has been the one that has attracted the most innovation. From FASERIP to SAGA to Universe to Heroic; they all added something that was worth paying attention to if you were a game designer.

So I for one am looking forward to to what comes next, if anything.

Quote from: Gabriel2;649041Do comic fans even overlap with RPG fans anymore?

Good question, as I'm finding even less overlap between Tabletop and LARPers these days.

Have geeks become more specialized?

Quote from: Soylent Green;649086First of all, 'Other games', seriously? That's just sad.

Dude, how long have you been here?

Quote from: Imperator;649432Licensed settings are a terrible idea always always always.

I'm pointing to my nose.