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Author Topic: Marvel Heroic Roleplaying is done  (Read 10156 times)

Soylent Green

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« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2013, 03:59:39 AM »
Quote from: Raven;649088

I'm more concerned that we might never see another Marvel game. I can't imagine tabletop rpg's are even a tiny blip on the Mouses radar, and even if they were who could afford it now?


Don't know, but if Star Wars (also owned by Disney) and DC can be bothered to licence a roleplaying game I guess there is still some value in it. It may not be a big money stream but it could still be part of an overall, wider advertising/brand awareness strategy. I have absolutely no idea.
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APN

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« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2013, 04:27:25 AM »
Isn't this the third Marvel game cancelled in 15 years? Perhaps we'll see another in 2018.

As for the previous games Marvel Saga and Marvel Universe, both had their problems and weren't well received (sales), but Marvel Saga is rare as hens teeth these days and tricky to get hold of (prices up) and the Marvel Universe game probably required a revised edition to make it work better. It (Marvel Universe) wasn't a bad game though combat was too predictable (blow your load in the first round and hope the death spiral doesn't strike you first) which is not great in supers games, which concentrate mostly on how hard and flashy you hit another guy for the most part.

Marvel Heroic fell into that niche (quirky games) for me. Having just a D8, D10 and D12 describe just about every character bunched everyone up. Sure it lets everyone play in the same team and not feel left out, but certain heavy hitters are and should be so far above the street level guys that it makes the game less credible. Hulk and Thor could clean the clocks of the rest of the Avengers on their own, but here was a game that brought them down several notches and raised the weaker characters up. An interesting approach, but maybe too different for traditional gamers.

And that's who it seems the game was aimed at. You had to know about the game (forums I guess, in the absence of any other advertising) it was tricky to get hold of outside of the US (amazon or bust, for me) and you had to be prepared to read and re-read some of the core book to get your head round it. It wasn't aimed at kids (13+ I believe was the target), the distribution was botched and it was an unconventional system. The license was probably so expensive/restrictive that it required X number of copies sold to break even so I guess MWP did the right thing (for them) and cancelled it to avoid it sucking them down into the abyss.

I admire their efforts though, and Cam Banks has been tireless in his efforts to sell it. It's a tough market out there though (supers games are bulging at the seams with regards choice) and being different/quirky was always going to be a tough sell.

RIP Marvel Heroic.

Ghost Whistler
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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2013, 05:22:47 AM »
This has clearly been on the cards since at least Christmas given how massively delayed Annihilation was (and still isn't in print). Did they know they couldn't get a wider distribution? No wonder it didn't sell enough.

Sad that innovation however is met with intransigence.
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VectorSigma

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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2013, 07:17:37 AM »
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;649099
This has clearly been on the cards since at least Christmas given how massively delayed Annihilation was (and still isn't in print). Did they know they couldn't get a wider distribution? No wonder it didn't sell enough.

Sad that innovation however is met with intransigence.


Who has been intransigent?  The horrible mean people who didn't get into the game?
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jadrax

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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2013, 07:19:27 AM »
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;649084
Well, I had to get my copy from Amazon as there was no proper distrubtion to the EU/UK for this game, which was not a good sign with hindsight.


Apparently that was an issue with the license.

Shawn Driscoll

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« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2013, 07:24:25 AM »
RPG books do not afford such licenses for long.  It's usually a one-time deal and a print run is made, and that's that.  But adding to, or modifying, a license (another book) was too much money (and not enough Cortex+'ers).

I like the old Cortex used in Serenity.  That was complex enough for newbies to RPGs.

Ghost Whistler
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« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2013, 08:03:35 AM »
Quote from: VectorSigma;649105
Who has been intransigent?  The horrible mean people who didn't get into the game?


No, the horrible mean people that rubbish anything just because it's different.

Sad really. Do we want all games to be the same?
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Shawn Driscoll

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« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2013, 09:10:10 AM »
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;649112
No, the horrible mean people that rubbish anything just because it's different.

Sad really. Do we want all games to be the same?


Are most superhero RPGs similar, or are they completely different from each other?  I come from the camp that wants superheroes to fit in with regular joe characters without changing the skill check mechanic.

Bill

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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2013, 11:17:25 AM »
A shame. I am a huge super hero genre fan, and have considered using MHRP with the metagame elements removed. Interesting core system.

I hope this does not stop others from such ambitious projects in the future.

Bill

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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2013, 11:22:29 AM »
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;649122
Are most superhero RPGs similar, or are they completely different from each other?  I come from the camp that wants superheroes to fit in with regular joe characters without changing the skill check mechanic.


There are a ton of superhero rpgs and they are diverse.

Its a difficult genre for game mechanics.

Consider:

Robin and Superman go on an adventure.....

One is an elite skilled and gifted human being, the other is over a million times human norm in all areas.

Can be a challenge for game mechanics to handle that.

Rincewind1

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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2013, 11:31:06 AM »
Quote from: Soylent Green;649086
First of all, 'Other games', seriously? That's just sad.


:rolleyes:

It's only an RPG if you consider it a Comic Writer simulator. This whole "conflict" between RPGs and Storygames is only alive because the attempted rebranding of the term "RPG" apparently continues.


Quote from: VectorSigma;649105
Who has been intransigent?  The horrible mean people who didn't get into the game?



: "It is your sworn duty as a gamer to support the innovative storygames, even if you do not like them! Because Innovation is Law!"

Of course, if the innovation can't hold on to the market, it means it wasn't just that great of an innovation.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;649112
No, the horrible mean people that rubbish anything just because it's different.

Sad really. Do we want all games to be the same?


Are you still drunk/high from celebrating Thatcher's death? Because I can see no other explanation from writing such nonsense. "If you dislike a thing B that is different than thing A, that menas you want everything to be like thing A". It's a bizarre, ridiculous train of thought. I like various RPG systems/mechanics, if only because some do a specific job better than others.

And yes I am sure all this "rubbishing" of MHS on Rpgsite was what it's proved it's downfall. Not those "innovative mechanics", which probably turned off most people away, or marketing the game to the RPG/Storygame crowd only - which was a part of the problem with the mechanics, because stuff that fiddly needs an experienced player to handle.

Quote from: Bill;649157
A shame. I am a huge super hero genre fan, and have considered using MHRP with the metagame elements removed. Interesting core system.

I hope this does not stop others from such ambitious projects in the future.


If you remove the metagame, you get something between just Cortex and poor man's Savage Worlds. So nothing that interesting IMO.

Quote from: Bill;649158
There are a ton of superhero rpgs and they are diverse.

Its a difficult genre for game mechanics.

Consider:

Robin and Superman go on an adventure.....

One is an elite skilled and gifted human being, the other is over a million times human norm in all areas.

Can be a challenge for game mechanics to handle that.


You can say the same thing about Wizard vs Fighter debate, so to speak. That's why the storygaming kool - aid has so many supporters in regard to Storygames = RPGs - because if you shift RPGs focus from being a character to being a part of a story, you get an array of metagaming tools that allow you to keep balance in people's importance in the party.

Nobody said that writing an RPG is easy.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

crkrueger

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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2013, 01:18:27 PM »
Quote from: Rincewind1;649161
:rolleyes:

It's only an RPG if you consider it a Comic Writer simulator. This whole "conflict" between RPGs and Storygames is only alive because the attempted rebranding of the term "RPG" apparently continues.





: "It is your sworn duty as a gamer to support the innovative storygames, even if you do not like them! Because Innovation is Law!"

Of course, if the innovation can't hold on to the market, it means it wasn't just that great of an innovation.



Are you still drunk/high from celebrating Thatcher's death? Because I can see no other explanation from writing such nonsense. "If you dislike a thing B that is different than thing A, that menas you want everything to be like thing A". It's a bizarre, ridiculous train of thought. I like various RPG systems/mechanics, if only because some do a specific job better than others.

And yes I am sure all this "rubbishing" of MHS on Rpgsite was what it's proved it's downfall. Not those "innovative mechanics", which probably turned off most people away, or marketing the game to the RPG/Storygame crowd only - which was a part of the problem with the mechanics, because stuff that fiddly needs an experienced player to handle.



If you remove the metagame, you get something between just Cortex and poor man's Savage Worlds. So nothing that interesting IMO.



You can say the same thing about Wizard vs Fighter debate, so to speak. That's why the storygaming kool - aid has so many supporters in regard to Storygames = RPGs - because if you shift RPGs focus from being a character to being a part of a story, you get an array of metagaming tools that allow you to keep balance in people's importance in the party.

Nobody said that writing an RPG is easy.


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crkrueger

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« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2013, 01:42:28 PM »
BTW that 4th and last DC book is out on DTRPG, it's only 224 pages for the DCverse though, which seems not that detailed.  Then again, I guess it would have to be 18 volumes just to hold all the retcon bullshit.
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taustin

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« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2013, 04:38:10 PM »
Quote from: Bill;649158
There are a ton of superhero rpgs and they are diverse.

Its a difficult genre for game mechanics.

Consider:

Robin and Superman go on an adventure.....

One is an elite skilled and gifted human being, the other is over a million times human norm in all areas.

Can be a challenge for game mechanics to handle that.


It's not a challenge for game mechanics to handle that, and handle it well. The challenge is getting game mechanics that handle that, that don't suck throbbing purple donkey dick to actually play.

Ghost Whistler
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« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2013, 05:20:13 PM »
Why are people still clinging to the notion that MHR was some kind of Stan Lee Simulator? I've literally never heard so much nonsense!
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