MHR is a game where you play the role of an author of comics and take charge of a particular superhero in an ongoing story, called an Event in the game's parlance. You control the superhero, as do all the other players but the Watcher, which acts like the GM of traditional role playing games in some respects at least, running the environment, controlling Villains and allies, and so on.

There are plot points on the players' side, and doom dice on the Watcher's side, which fulfill more or less the same function to manipulate the story and outcomes of the characters' actions by providing complications and bouncing off the different story elements to make it more dynamic and dramatic.

The basic game takes the form of a thick soft cover comic book. It sells for 20$ US, a bit more in Canadian dollars, and represents great value for what it is, really, i.e. a complete game with a gorgeous layout and stunning comic illustrations (see pics below).

The default assumption is that you will play one of the well known heroes of the Marvel universe. There are many pregenerated characters provided with the game to reflect that. The complete list includes Armor, Beast, Black Panther, Black Widow, Captain America, Colossus, Cyclops, Daredevil, Emma Frost, Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron Fist, Iron Man, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Ms. Marvel, Sentry, Shadowcat, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Storm, the Thing, Wolverine. You can also create your own superhero, and a blank character sheet is provided as well.

OK. Time for the pics.

So, how well does it do at the game table?

Quote from: Ladybird;569043So, how well does it do at the game table?

Personally, I was disappointed in it - mainly because all the dice-pool manipulating mechanics made combat really slow as opposed to feeling like quick slam-bang slugfests.  My first game we tried to do the premade adventure in the book ("Breakout"), and particularly with learning the system the pace felt glacial.  What made it slow was that there are a ton of categories of dice to pull from (4-6 from your character sheet, plus a bunch of resources that may have been generated for the scene).  Further, there are half-a-dozen or more ways to spend Plot Points.  

I had previously played a close relative of this system when a friend GMed a one-shot adventure using the Leverage RPG.   In that case, it seemed like the pacing was about right - the mechanic of developing out dice worked well for a slowly-developing con job.  The superheroic rules added more complications to the Leverage system, which made it slower when I felt like superheroic action should be faster.  

In June, I GMed it again for first-timers in a one-shot where I had made the Runaways (a recently-created superteam of teenage heroes).  That went better than my first run, but I still felt like the system was slow.  I'm still considering some simplifying options to speed up conflict.

It's a beautiful book. My experience as a playtester is that its very "Story" games based, and for my use, not in a good way. It has a problem with the gap between character and player being wide enough to sink a battleship.

It has asynchronous play. That is the action of the character are somewhat divorced from the players perceptions. In short the mechanics get in the way of playing the person. It becomes more like moving a monopoly piece around the board. Its still "your guy," but it is not essentially connecting your guy to you the player.

Its a beautiful game, and it can play.

I guess for me I want the player to talk in character, do things in character, and decide actions in character that fit the mechanics.

The game seems like it might generate great storyboards, but the action has no personal impact.

I went to one of the launch parties they had, and we played in the Breakout mini-event. The group I was in wasn't very powerful (I was Captain America, and Mr. Fantastic, Daredevil, Spiderman and Iron Fist were the other heroes), and we took out Graviton pretty easily (not as in actual beatdown; more like we intimidated him enough to surrender), which was cool, but seemed not in line with the comics.

I kind of grokked the die mechanics fairly easily, but still found it somewhat fiddly with all the die combos. I wouldn't mind playing it again, but it's not a game I'd want to run. I'm content with my purchase of the core rules, as it's only 20 bucks (and I got the pdf as well since I pre-ordered from MWP directly). I was considering getting the Annihilation event book as well, but they recently stated the price was going up on their books (due to various factors), so now I'm not so sure (given that the premium edition will now cost 50 bucks)

On the other hand, I'm kind of excited about Capes, Cowls & Villains Foul, from the company behind Cartoon Action Hour. Some early comments are that it is similar in some ways to MHR, but less fiddly (it uses a D12 as it's base mechanic, and not the all the other die types afaik)

This is not a fucking story game you dopey cunt.

That's one pretty book.

Wonder how it plays...

The release format has done a good job of turning me off on acquiring it.

Also, I am a huge Marvel fanboy, but all else being equal, I'd rather play a supers game in a homebrewed universe, with our own characters.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569184This is not a fucking story game you dopey cunt.

Look, GW, I used to sympathize with you and I even enjoyed reading your posts. You posted some vague but interesting ideas, e.g. about the space opera wuxia game you were writing.

Now you just show up on every other thread Benoist posts in, and start flinging shit like an angry chimp.

So, please, for the benefit of everyone else, back that up with some argumentation (you can even retain the shit flinging! e.g. "this is not a fucking story game because ________ you dopey cunt"). Or shut the fuck up, either one is good.

Quote from: The Butcher;569213Look, GW, I used to sympathize with you and I even enjoyed reading your posts. You posted some vague but interesting ideas, e.g. about the space opera wuxia game you were writing.

Now you just show up on every other thread Benoist posts in, and start flinging shit like an angry chimp.

So, please, for the benefit of everyone else, back that up with some argumentation (you can even retain the shit flinging! e.g. "this is not a fucking story game because ________ you dopey cunt"). Or shut the fuck up, either one is good.

Quite right, what I mean to say is:

this is not a fucking story game because it's a roleplaying game you dopey cunt.

Look. This has gotten to the point of absolute stupidity now. MHR is about as big an rpg release (other than D&D) as you're going to get these days, certainly in terms of the license. That it's even called Marvel Heroic Roleplaying should really be enough to credit it with even just the benoifit of the doubt. But instead we immediately go into the Other Games territory - even though we have had plenty of discussion on this game in the rpg proper forum. Noone shat their pants about it then, so why now?

Quite frankly if this is typical of the prioduct that gets the swine treatment and the subsequent vilification of people that really should know better then there's just no point and no hope. This has gone beyond the pale into the point of absolute stupidity. How on earth is this not an rpg? You play the role of a Marvel superhero (or one of your own). The events are not compulsory elements either, they are just how the game markets itself. They aren't, for instance, like the Apocalypse World playbooks.

If you want to jate on this game that's absolutely fine, there's plenty to criticise it for (and we have already done so on this forum). But this automatic recategorisation of the game according to a pointless paranoid principle of division that about three people, on the entire planet, subscribe to, is detrimental to everything that makes gaming great.

And the only reason I deign to explain myself at this point, because I suspect, now, there's no point, is because I've been asked to by someone that isn't a giant muppet. This site really is losing the plot, big time.

The game is currently on my "awaiting a proper release" list as for reasons beyond there control the cortex guys havent been able to sort out the licencing so that they can release the game outside the United States and Canada legally so ive decided to wait for word of a UK/Euro licencing deal(possibly via the company who releases marvels graphic novel collections) before i pick a copy up.

I played and ran 8 or so sessions of this game.
I want to champion it, but it has a few problems.

When you get used to the game mecahnic, the rules and the proper pacing of the game, it's actually a really great game. You just have to get over the fact that you're not playing a superhero, you're playing a comic book artist writing the part of one superhero.

Where it all falls down really is in characters. You really need to pick one of the pregenerated characters. While it is easy to make your own character because you just slap them together out of guesses, not every player is a comic author. Players usually felt too dissasociated with their character. The game rewards high numbers, literally, and if a player's character does not have a d12s in their design, they will eventually feel stunted. The way its structured leads to a complete lack of immersion.

In the way that I felt FASERIP's character creation was inspiring and by the end of it you love your character...but the game mecahincs aren't that fun to play...MHR is the exact opposite.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: The Butcher;569213So, please, for the benefit of everyone else, back that up with some argumentation (you can even retain the shit flinging! e.g. "this is not a fucking story game because ________ you dopey cunt"). Or shut the fuck up, either one is good.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569234Quite right, what I mean to say is:

OK. Let's see your actual arguments.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569234this is not a fucking story game because it's a roleplaying game you dopey cunt.

That's the thesis. MHR is not a story game because it's a role playing game. It's not a proof in itself, it's a statement without proof or substance as of yet.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569234Look. This has gotten to the point of absolute stupidity now. MHR is about as big an rpg release (other than D&D) as you're going to get these days, certainly in terms of the license.

"It's a role playing game because it's a as big a release as you can hope and it's a big license." Huh?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569234That it's even called Marvel Heroic Roleplaying should really be enough to credit it with even just the benoifit of the doubt.

"It's calling itself a roleplaying game so obviously it is." Huh?

Also, the one who's not giving the benefit of the doubt here is you dude. To me.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569234[strike]But instead we immediately go into the Other Games territory - even though we have had plenty of discussion on this game in the rpg proper forum. Noone shat their pants about it then, so why now?

Quite frankly if this is typical of the prioduct that gets the swine treatment and the subsequent vilification of people that really should know better then there's just no point and no hope. This has gone beyond the pale into the point of absolute stupidity. How on earth is this not an rpg?[/strike]

All that part is just a rant. There's no actual argument beyond "you are poo-pooheads for putting games in this forum." W/e.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569234You play the role of a Marvel superhero (or one of your own). The events are not compulsory elements either, they are just how the game markets itself. They aren't, for instance, like the Apocalypse World playbooks.

Actually the game disagrees with you. Page OM02:

Quote from: IntroductionAs a player, it's your job to make decisions for your super hero, using your knowledge of his motivation and personality as a guide to how he uses his amazing powers and abilities. Players are like comic book writers and artists - they bring these super heroes to life, making big and small choices for them, and that's what you'll do at the game table.

(...) Everyone shares their ideas, describes what their heroes (or villains!) are doing, and reveals an ongoing story. You might even describe what you're imagining in terms of panels and pages in a comic book - establishing shots, splash pages, extreme close-ups, huge sound effects.

I am not making this up, the game itself tells you as much: MHR is a game where you play the role of an author of comics and take charge of a particular superhero in an ongoing story.

And as Panju points out just above, this game sounds like it can be great if you get over the fact that you're not playing a superhero, and are playing a comic book artist writing the part of one superhero instead. I find myself in agreement here. To me, that's a story telling game at the very least. Not a traditional role playing game.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569234[strike]If you want to jate on this game that's absolutely fine, there's plenty to criticise it for (and we have already done so on this forum). But this automatic recategorisation of the game according to a pointless paranoid principle of division that about three people, on the entire planet, subscribe to, is detrimental to everything that makes gaming great.

And the only reason I deign to explain myself at this point, because I suspect, now, there's no point, is because I've been asked to by someone that isn't a giant muppet. This site really is losing the plot, big time.[/strike]

No actual argument there.

So your post, in terms of actual arguments, boils down to "it's not a story game because it's a story game. It's a role playing game because it says so on the cover, it's a big license (like that's relevant somehow), and you are poo-poo heads because you're putting this thread in forum I object to."

And that, and you make a shortcut in saying that you just play a super hero in this game that is actually, factually wrong, since you are actually playing a comic book author and building a story/narrative as such, which the game actually points out to you, and I've substantiated here by quoting the game itself.

To me, MHR isn't necessarily a story game per se (in the uber-strict Forge sense of the term), but it definitely uses narrative mechanics in a major way, at the core of its design, definitely posits you are playing at building a story, not exploring a live world from an immersive standpoint, and that to me makes it not a role playing game. I think, from what I've read so far, that it can be cool to play though. I'll come back to that later.

Quote from: Benoist;569275OK. Let's see your actual arguments.

The onus isn't mine. You're the one that has decided, in spite of reason, common sense, and the authors, this isn't an rpg. Ergo the responsibility is yours to prove that it is not. Since pundit cannot provide accurate aggreed upon (or indeed any) descriptors as to what constitutes a storygame (which even then would be only his, noone else in or out of the industry) you are doomed to failure. Quite what you hope to gain by declaring this, by order of benoist (as if that counts for anything), not an rpg escapes me.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

QuoteI am not making this up, the game itself tells you as much: MHR is a game where you play the role of an author of comics and take charge of a particular superhero in an ongoing story.

Yes dear, keep taking the pills.

HKAT is an rpg where you play an actor in a martial arts film.
Dream Park is an rpg where you play someone experiencing a virtual reality.
Amber is an rpg where you play some kind of god like entity.
In Nomine is an rpg where you play an angel or a demon.
DnD is an rpg where you can play a wizard.

Your point?

But wait, let's back up shall we...

QuoteI am not making this up, the game itself tells you as much: MHR is a game where you play the role of an author of comics and take charge of a particular superhero in an ongoing story.

In your own words, true believer (though actually you don't play a writer or artist, it's a simile, look the word up).

Excelsior.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;569279

QuoteI am not making this up, the game itself tells you as much: MHR is a game where you play the role of an author of comics and take charge of a particular superhero in an ongoing story.

(...)

Excelsior.

Alright. That's your actual argument there, based on selected highlighting. As soon as you assume some role, any role in a game, it's a role playing game. As such, any and all wargames are role playing games, since you assume the role of a general leading troops and giving orders in battle.

D&D wasn't the first modern role playing game. Little Wars was.

Warhammer Fantasy Battle is an RPG, by that definition, as well.

Any definition that posits those kinds of things is next to meaningless to me.

Quote from: IntroductionAs a player, it's your job to make decisions for your super hero, using your knowledge of his motivation and personality as a guide to how he uses his amazing powers and abilities.

This is pretty much the essence of roleplaying, right here. All you need to do is change "super hero" and "amazing powers" as suitable for your game.