Im less annoyed at the clipping myself and more annoyed at how little variety they have overall to the point where the karma based crafting recipes for armor are the same damn look at each of the 4 or 5 tiers and the final top skill rank armour is one suit that is abit/very crap for each tier dependant on what class your hero is.

Lots of GW2 love here. I've never played GW1 or 2, but I'd like to hear what's the game like? (comparisons to WoW helpful)

Also, you can play a Klingon mercenary on STO? My interest is piqued.

Quote from: The Butcher;605320Also, you can play a Klingon mercenary on STO? My interest is piqued.

Sorta. But not really.

You can belong to the Federation or to the Klingon Empire in STO.

The races for the Empire are Klingon, Naussican, Gorn, and Lethean. And on both sides, you can create your own race as well.

The Naussicans are written up as mercs in the in-game lore, but it has no effect on the game play, as you still work for the KDF. You can roleplay your Klingon as a merc, but it will have no effect on gameplay, as you still work for the KDF.

That said, there's enough Klingon vs. Klingon House battles you can join in for big rewards that you can plausibly have the game support your merc status (i.e. fighting for one house or another in the various battles). House Battles are K vs. K PVP. There have been some Fleets (kind of like guilds) who have successfully established themselves as in-game Mercs that other Fleets can "hire" for PVP.

You can't change sides and work for the Federation or anything like that, though. Which makes sense, as I don't think the Federation hires mercenaries anyways.

Don't know if World of Tanks qualifies as it lacks the "rpg," element, but that's where you'll find me most of the time...until I get my joystick situation...

That certainly sounds dirty, doesn't it?

...fixed which is when I'll be spending a lot of time online flight-simming.  Picked up IL-2 for cheap on GOG.com a week or so ago and danged if I aint hooked again into those sort of games.

Quote from: The Butcher;605320Lots of GW2 love here. I've never played GW1 or 2, but I'd like to hear what's the game like? (comparisons to WoW helpful)

Also, you can play a Klingon mercenary on STO? My interest is piqued.

Comparing it to WoW would be doing it a disservice tbh as it sheds alot of the crap WoW brought to the mmo table(though fractals the new random dungeon thing they recently added is adding a version of geargrind back into the game for those who just couldnt handle the switch), the best thing i could suggest is next time they do a trial accounts event i could pm you and sort you out a trial code so you can see what you think for yourself that way you wont have to fork over the cash for the ful game? im guessing they may add the trials back in either during this coming wintersday event or early next year(they just finished one in november).

Quote from: The Butcher;605320Lots of GW2 love here. I've never played GW1 or 2, but I'd like to hear what's the game like? (comparisons to WoW helpful)

GW2 is more WoW-like than GW1 (which was effectively an AI or PVP team squad-based instance-heavy game), although there are a sizable number of improvements.

Most significantly, combat is much faster and responsive.  Most WoW-likes rely on server calculations for accuracy calculations, and encourage players to stand in place cycling attack through rotation or through priority.  Guild Wars 2 doesn't do that: if someone's swinging a sword or shooting an arrow at your character, most of the time you can actually move out of the way (bullets and certain magical attacks require dodge-rolling to evade).  Its attack and defense powers are very reactive, so recognizing and countering enemy attacks really makes a huge difference.  Without conventional meatshields or healers, group and team events become very interestingly hectic.

Quests work dramatically differently.  While you have one Personal Story quest for most of your leveling, there's not a conventional quest log.  Instead, sections of a zone are tied to Renown Hearts and repeatable Events.  There's still some "Kill Ten Rats"-esque Renown Hearts, but outside of the starting zones the majority tend to things closer to "help clear this zombie outpost" or "Stop the Nightmare Court from turning people evil".  Better, many Events chain : if you stop the nightmare court in time, the locals might go on to try to take out one of their outposts, while if you fail the event, there might be a second event to put down the fresh monstrosity.  Unfortunately, few of these events are terribly permanent, as is common for open-world situations, but it does make the place feel a lot more lively or war-torn.

The writing's also actually sane.  When two combating found that their millennia-long war was about to be interrupted by the bastard offspring of the Lich King and Deathwing, they actually negotiate a (troubled) truce instead of giving the zombie-dragon fresh troops.  The five races are actually fairly complex species instead of racial stereotypes (and, worse, boring ones), and especially the Charr personal quests tend to raise interesting roleplayer questions of duty versus justice.

You can get into end-game play relatively easily.  There is a gear treadmill for Ascended-type gear right now, but level 80 Exotics can be crafted and represent about 10-15 gold (and the difference between even Rares and Exotics isn't so severe).  You can jump into most dungeon teams without needing to run tiered instances forever to raise your iLvl.

Not all great.  Fractals of the Mists has some rather goofy gateway systems, so you do have to run that a lot at lower levels to get into the more difficulty versions.  The lack of a decent LFG tool means that finding groups for dungeons is a lot tougher than it needs to be.  There are some balance issues, some fairly severe (mostly Elementalists).  And the economy and crafting system is majorly screwed.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;605555the best thing i could suggest is next time they do a trial accounts event i could pm you and sort you out a trial code so you can see what you think for yourself that way you wont have to fork over the cash for the ful game? im guessing they may add the trials back in either during this coming wintersday event or early next year(they just finished one in november).

Thanks for the kind offer! Right now I got my hands full with WoW but let me know when they're offering trial accounts and I might just try my hand at it.

Quote from: gattsuru;605564GW2 is more WoW-like than GW1 (which was effectively an AI or PVP team squad-based instance-heavy game), although there are a sizable number of improvements.

Most significantly, combat is much faster and responsive.

Quests work dramatically differently.

The writing's also actually sane.

You can get into end-game play relatively easily.

Very informative summary, thank you.

All of these sound very interesting. I'm particularly frustrated with the (now mid-game) gear grind! I'm level 80, I want to get into ICC and pop a cap on the Lich King's ass, and I can't because my iLvl is too low. I have to keep cycling through the same dungeons and hope something iLvl 180+ drops.

As for WoW's corny writing and cliché races, they've kind of grown on me, at least Horde-side. I like the Tim Burtonesque Forsaken undead, the noble savage orcs, the Native American minotaurs ("Tauren"? Really?), the voodoo trolls, the haughty magic junkie elves and now the greedy and industrious goblins. The Alliance doesn't grab me, though, except maybe dwarves (cliché as hell but fun), draenei (fucking aliens!) and werewolves ("Worgen"? Even worse than "Tauren").

In any case, I'm happy to see someone addressing the common complaints about WoW and actually trying to do something different. WAR and LotRO are cool, but I think that's more because of the lore and less due to any game design merit of their own (they often felt a bit like "poor man's WoW" in terms of actual gameplay, at least in the early levels).

Quote from: The Butcher;605629As for WoW's corny writing and cliché races, they've kind of grown on me, at least Horde-side. I like the Tim Burtonesque Forsaken undead, the noble savage orcs, the Native American minotaurs ("Tauren"? Really?), the voodoo trolls, the haughty magic junkie elves and now the greedy and industrious goblins. The Alliance doesn't grab me, though, except maybe dwarves (cliché as hell but fun), draenei (fucking aliens!) and werewolves ("Worgen"? Even worse than "Tauren").

You know, Warcraft had a trilogy of games out which introduced those races, bit by hit, before WoW? They're all better games than WoW across the board, Warcraft II is my favorite. But hey, did you know, the first Warcraft game stated as a WarHAMMER game Blizzard was designing for Games Workshop but the deal fell through? So Blizzard filed the serial numbers off, and we have Warcraft now?

So the reason WoW races feel cliched is they are largely Warhammer ripoffs.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;605982You know, Warcraft had a trilogy of games out which introduced those races, bit by hit, before WoW? They're all better games than WoW across the board, Warcraft II is my favorite. But hey, did you know, the first Warcraft game stated as a WarHAMMER game Blizzard was designing for Games Workshop but the deal fell through? So Blizzard filed the serial numbers off, and we have Warcraft now?

So the reason WoW races feel cliched is they are largely Warhammer ripoffs.

Preaching to the choir here. As I noted above, I actually like the races (any game where you can play dwarf, nice elf, naughty elf, orc, troll, minotaur, alien, zombie and werewolf is all right in my book). I just take exception at a couple of silly names; imagine yourself introducing them at your game table. "Tauren" screams "not really a minotaur, I swear, seriously you guys stop laughing" and "Worgen" sounds like someone throwing up.

Also, I like these races, and the frankly badly-written lore behind them, because I played WCII and WCIII. In fact, I tend to concur with your analysis, vis-a-vis WCII vs. WCIII.

WoW vs. WC, though, is apples vs. oranges to me. Very different games even if the franchise is the same.

I'd also heard before about the Warhammer thing and I enjoy imagining how much they probably kick themselves over it.

Quote from: The Butcher;606051"Tauren" screams "not really a minotaur, I swear, seriously you guys stop laughing" and "Worgen" sounds like someone throwing up.

Yet their badness pales in comparison to "Pandaren".

QuoteI played WCII and WCIII. In fact, I tend to concur with your analysis, vis-a-vis WCII vs. WCIII.

WCII was better because it was what a sequel should be; a refinement and expansion of the original game (which was also fun, I missed the Worg Riders when WCII came out). WC3, however, was Story Time to learn all about the new MMO they're working on.

QuoteI'd also heard before about the Warhammer thing and I enjoy imagining how much they probably kick themselves over it.

There was some kind of settlement between GW and Blizzard, so who knows. They may be kicking themselves, or they may be kicking themselves all the way to the bank. No idea.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;606611Yet their badness pales in comparison to "Pandaren".

Touché.

I keep popping back into WOW every few months but my stays keep getting shorter and shorter as my gripes with the game keep growing. Last time I dropped a month after signing up.
My favorite aspect was always the questing and exploring... with friends or alone... and that is so streamlined and easy now... no more world-spanning epic quests. Everyone just racing to an end-game that I find grueling and annoying.
I tried playing through the starting goblin questline and it was like playing a (less than amazing) solo game.

Are there any MMOs that favor casual play like COH did? Pop in for an hour and leave... lots of room for exploration/discovery... players who don't behave like meth addicts?

Quote from: Simlasa;607083I keep popping back into WOW every few months but my stays keep getting shorter and shorter as my gripes with the game keep growing. Last time I dropped a month after signing up.
My favorite aspect was always the questing and exploring... with friends or alone... and that is so streamlined and easy now... no more world-spanning epic quests. Everyone just racing to an end-game that I find grueling and annoying.
I tried playing through the starting goblin questline and it was like playing a (less than amazing) solo game.

Are there any MMOs that favor casual play like COH did? Pop in for an hour and leave... lots of room for exploration/discovery... players who don't behave like meth addicts?

Leveling is if anything too fast these days.

I was thrilled to find out out that there's a NPC in both Stormwind and Orgrimmar that you can pay 10g to "freeze" your level and stop experience gains, and another 10g to get back on track.

My main is now level 81 and I didn't get to do the top tier of WotLK dungeons because my iLvl is under 180. :mad:

After I reach 90 I intend to start an alt and "freeze" it at levels 60, 70 and 80 the better to explore these areas and the attending dungeons unhurried.

I feel WoW is actually fairly welcoming of casual play, I just don't think that's what most of the commuinity wants (which is weird. I always took the majority to be casuals like myself).

If you ever feel like trying a fresh server (and don't mind not understanding what everyone's saying) send me a PM and we might get something low-level (world or dungeon) done at one of the Brazilian servers. Or I could start an alt at your server, your call.

Quote from: The Butcher;607114Leveling is if anything too fast these days.

Yeah, when we were first playing it was normal to find an inn, make the place your 'home'... cause you'd be in that zone for a while. Nowadays I'll blow past it in an hour... both because I outleveled it and because all the quests are easier and require far less travel.
A lot of the newer/revamped areas have VERY linear questlines that you can't break in on unless you start at the very beginning. None of that wandering around looking for hidden quests (like the one to get the fairy dragon pet that's been removed).

QuoteI was thrilled to find out out that there's a NPC in both Stormwind and Orgrimmar that you can pay 10g to "freeze" your level and stop experience gains, and another 10g to get back on track.

I was in a 'classic' guild that planned to turn off XP at 60 and do old end-game dungeons... but that lasted about a week. I kept looking for guilds that did old content but nada.
There is a LOT of content I've never seen because it's old and no one wants to do it anymore... or will just go there, get the whatsit, and leave. Getting all the way through one of the larger dungeons such as Black Rock Depths isn't very likely. I blame the random dungeon finder for a lot of that.

Something I just heard about is that they've turned off the raid requirements for all the old raid instances... and altered fights that mechanically required multiple players (such as the Twin Kings in Silithus). So I'm thinking I might join up again sometime and use my top lvl toons to solo that stuff just so I can finally see it.

QuoteI feel WoW is actually fairly welcoming of casual play, I just don't think that's what most of the commuinity wants (which is weird. I always took the majority to be casuals like myself).

I think that when leveling was slower... and when there was a lot more hidden stuff to find... it was rewarding to just go in a play for a bit, explore. Crafting could be a game unto itself (and was for me). Some of the class quests, such as getting the mount for my warlock and gaining the druid shapeshifting forms, were pretty involved and could keep me happily occupied for weeks. You weren't going to make it to 60/70/80 anytime soon... so relax.
But most of that content is long gone. The game is gaining breadth but losing depth. It's all been radically simplified.
For instance, there was a monster in... the night elf area, I forget... that was back in a cave. Not on the main path or anything. If you happened to wander in there and fight him you could take his heart and it started a quest. Nothing pointed you towards him though... you'd only find him by exploring. Now, not only does a previous quest send you straight to him, but he's standing outside on a rock so you're sure to find him.
Changes like that all over the place have taken a lot of fun out of exploring, now everything is pointed out and has big red arrows leading you to it.
Same thing with the loot that drops... used to be there'd was all sorts of strange exotic stuff I'd find... a lot of it for crafting or certain spells. A lot of that has been removed... so that except for gear, it's boring.
Less mystery, less to discover.
Rather than expanding the map I wish they'd find ways to expand on content that's already there... find ways to keep me returning to Duskwood as I level up... find ways to offer a wider variety of quests there (daily quests).
 
Like I said, I ran through the newish goblin starter quests... totally linear, no way off the path... you can't just run to Ogrimmar. You're on islands that are fairly large, but outside of where the quests take you... nothing to discover. You might as well be in a hallway.

QuoteIf you ever feel like trying a fresh server (and don't mind not understanding what everyone's saying) send me a PM and we might get something low-level (world or dungeon) done at one of the Brazilian servers. Or I could start an alt at your server, your call.

That could be fun. I might join up again sometime. I'm not interested in being kung fu panda but I'd like to see Naxxramas and visit Ahn'Qiraj.

Quote from: Simlasa;607125For instance, there was a monster in... the night elf area, I forget... that was back in a cave. Not on the main path or anything. If you happened to wander in there and fight him you could take his heart and it started a quest. Nothing pointed you towards him though... you'd only find him by exploring. Now, not only does a previous quest send you straight to him, but he's standing outside on a rock so you're sure to find him.
Changes like that all over the place have taken a lot of fun out of exploring, now everything is pointed out and has big red arrows leading you to it.
Same thing with the loot that drops... used to be there'd was all sorts of strange exotic stuff I'd find... a lot of it for crafting or certain spells. A lot of that has been removed... so that except for gear, it's boring.
Less mystery, less to discover.

This is one of the things I really like about The Secret World. It doesn't hold your hand and direct you towards every quest. There's a ton of quests you will only find by exploring. You'll be traveling through some woods and come across a dead body wrapped in a cocoon or something and investigating it will lead to a quest. Plus there's lore scattered all over the place that opens up a small bit of the larger story for you, and I love wandering around finding things.

I was taking a shortcut across one zone and stumbled on a hidden military base that wasn't on the map. Sneaking into the base while avoiding being seen let me discover a mission to sabotage their operation.

I also like that it's not always 100% clear what you need to do next in every mission. You have to think sometimes and figure out the connection. The clue will sometimes be vague like "find out what happened"

I wish more games were like that, but alot of people like everything spoofed to them.