It's a story where the msot important thing your character does is not only something totally out of character, totally without precedent, and totally stupid, but you have zero input in it at all. Not much of a plus point in my book.

Quote from: Glazer;463697Horses for courses, I guess...

Indeed. Some folks, for example, seem to dislike everything they pick up...

Seanchai

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;463718The Rockstar games are recapitulating the history of tabletop roleplaying games. LA Noir is the birth of the storygame.

Nah, man.

JRPGs have been using relationship reward mechanics for years.  Fucking hipster Japanese swine video-game developers and the Power of Friendship.

If this is true:

QuoteYou then pick it up, whether it's a bloodstained book of matches (every fucking time) or a bottle of beer. Only then will the game tell you if it has any relevance. It's so pointless and tedious. It would have been much better to just not have the player able to pick up stuff that was of no use or relevance.

LA Noire is like playing a detective game with a GM who loves pixel-bitching.  But somehow I feel it's not that bad in a day and age when "highlight plot objects" is a standard feature in most console games.

I don't get the bitching, though.  I don't like Rockstar games, but they're normally solid titles, if a bit hyped.  It's not like they fubar'd it like Bioware did with Dragon Age 2.

Quote from: Peregrin;463723Nah, man.

JRPGs have been using relationship reward mechanics for years.  Fucking hipster Japanese swine video-game developers and the Power of Friendship.

If this is true:
 

LA Noire is like playing a detective game with a GM who loves pixel-bitching.  But somehow I feel it's not that bad in a day and age when "highlight plot objects" is a standard feature in most console games.

I don't get the bitching, though.  I don't like Rockstar games, but they're normally solid titles, if a bit hyped.  It's not like they fubar'd it like Bioware did with Dragon Age 2.

It's just not a very good game. At all. The facial mocap is completely pointless since their expression is incidental; what matters is whether you can prove they are lying. If you can't then you must either pick truth or doubt because if they are lying you have to show the evidence (and correctly) to catch them otherwise you fail. It looks impressive, but it's entirely redundant.

It isn't pixel bitching so much, it's the fact that the game doesn't differentitate between clues and incidental items (like beer bottles or cups) in the evnironment until you pick them up. It just gets massively tedious - you never know when that beer bottle will actually be a relevant clue and not just a beer bottle.

If they'd done away with the 'open world' aspect (it's not open at all) and just had more detective stuff, then it would have been much better. But as it is, it's quite short anyway. Unless you include the time spent driving from one side of the city to the other in order to get to a sub quest/crime.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;463758It's just not a very good game. At all.

I think that's being a bit harsh.  Plenty of AAA titles aren't very good "games", but are very good "experiences."  Depends on what you want from the title.  

I think LA Noire may offer a compelling enough experience that most people are willing to look past the issues of game design.

@ghost whistler: have you ever watched the zero punctuation video's on the escapist site? if not i advise you go watch his La Noir review as its fairly similar to your response(heck you 2 could be twins the way your criticisms cross the streams so often lol)

I watch yahtzee sometimes, but he gets a bit tedious after a while

Plus he's always moaning!

I guess he hates games

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;463718LA Noir is the birth of the storygame.

Heh. That's like a version of Godwin's law for the RPGsite. Pundit's law, I guess

I think my biggest issue with the game is that it tries to be too many different things. They should have focused on the detective/investigation/interview aspect and fleshed that out much more. Driving could have been automated and presented as a passive experience, perhaps where the player can listen to music, maybe watch some cut scene footage - like watching a movie, or watching his thoughts ("there was a party of bullets going on under her shirt", "this city is a dirty place"...), sort out the gunfights and you'd have a better game. Forget collectables and crap like that. Don't need it.

It's next up on our GameFly queue so I'll get to play it soon without having to shell out the full price. I've come to lurve GameFly, almost as much as NetFlix...

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;463828I think my biggest issue with the game is that it tries to be too many different things. They should have focused on the detective/investigation/interview aspect and fleshed that out much more. Driving could have been automated and presented as a passive experience, perhaps where the player can listen to music, maybe watch some cut scene footage - like watching a movie, or watching his thoughts ("there was a party of bullets going on under her shirt", "this city is a dirty place"...), sort out the gunfights and you'd have a better game. Forget collectables and crap like that. Don't need it.

How could they have fleshed out the detective/investigation/interview aspects more? Fully rendered and highly detailed crime scenes, clues, POI homes, paperwork, sleazy bars, red herrings etc. weren't enough for you? How about fully voiced and acted proper responses for every accusation for every character you interview/interrogate (3-7 people in each of 22 cases + side missions)? Each case able to play out multiple ways with multiple endings (up to 9 separate endings per case) depending on how you approach them and how well you do? That's not good enough for you?

Also, FYI, driving is automated. Just hold down the  "Get in the Car Button" (Triangle on PS3) and your partner automatically drives to the location, playing a cutscene if there is supposed to be some driving dialog between you or going to a loading screen if there isn't.

This might have been te 3rd time I've been trolled by you in this forum. I'm starting to believe you don't actually play any of the games you "critique" as you never seem to know the basics any player would know after playing.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;463718The Rockstar games are recapitulating the history of tabletop roleplaying games. LA Noir is the birth of the storygame.

That's funny, as to me it seems more like a period detective game in GURPS. It tells a serious, different kind of story with GTA mechanics with a high priority on verisimilitude and accuracy.

The birth of the story games in video games is Heavy Rain. Completely disassociated mini-game mechanics that have no significant effect on the pseudo intellectual (no pun intended), juvenile story. Hailed by the creator to be a revolution in videogame storytelling, when the exact same mechanics were used in a much more entertaining fashion in Parrappa the Rapppa on PS1 if not even earlier.

Quote from: KrakaJak;463936The birth of the story games in video games is Heavy Rain. Completely disassociated mini-game mechanics that have no significant effect on the pseudo intellectual (no pun intended), juvenile story.

Nah, that's more like a bad WoD campaign book if it's juvenile and you can't affect the major plot point.  

Really, though, Heavy Rain runs counter to tabletop story-game philosophies.  "Story-game" stuff that people bitch about here has been in video-games for a long time.

Quote from: KrakaJak;463936That's funny, as to me it seems more like a period detective game in GURPS. It tells a serious, different kind of story with GTA mechanics with a high priority on verisimilitude and accuracy.

The birth of the story games in video games is Heavy Rain. Completely disassociated mini-game mechanics that have no significant effect on the pseudo intellectual (no pun intended), juvenile story. Hailed by the creator to be a revolution in videogame storytelling, when the exact same mechanics were used in a much more entertaining fashion in Parrappa the Rapppa on PS1 if not even earlier.

Good point. I haven't played it, though, so I can't comment on it.

For Rockstar, the move over time has been from sandboxes and blank-slate characters to more rigid stories that limit gameplay. When you fail an action scene (and that title alone tells you everything you need to know) three times, the game asks you if you want to skip it aka skip the gameplay to get back to the cutscenes.

Quote from: KrakaJak;463935How could they have fleshed out the detective/investigation/interview aspects more?


Also, FYI, driving is automated. Just hold down the  "Get in the Car Button" (Triangle on PS3) and your partner automatically drives to the location, playing a cutscene if there is supposed to be some driving dialog between you or going to a loading screen if there isn't.

This might have been te 3rd time I've been trolled by you in this forum. I'm starting to believe you don't actually play any of the games you "critique" as you never seem to know the basics any player would know after playing.

1. Adding more depth. Every case is the same. It's the same process repeated 20 times.
2. That isn't automation, that's just skipping the journey. And even that's tedious. if the street crime is at the other end of town, you have to stop, get out then hold down the button in order to skip the journey. Horrendous game design.
3. How exactly am I trolling you in this thread, when I'm the one that started it? Give me one example of where i've misrepresented the game.