Well, another disappointment insofar as being pro-GamerGate goes.

I mentioned to my friends at our weekly game (after we all took last week off) the whole fiasco with OBS and the #GamerGate card game. Much to my dismay, the group expressed support for the idea of the game being pulled (even the self-described anarchist, who later in the evening stated - in reference to the game Hatred on Steam - that he was opposed to censorship in every regard imaginable; he said it completely without irony too).

I then tried to offer my opinion on not only why I thought that the game being pulled was bad, but also that it was based on a faulty premise, since GamerGate isn't a hate group.

Judging from their reactions, you'd have thought I expressed sympathy for the Nazi Party. Two people got very uncomfortable looks on their faces, while two others started to explain to me how GG was, in fact, doing evil in the world. At that point, the conversation was cut off as the owner of the house we play at strongly suggested (in a way that brooked no argument) that we not discuss the issue.

Maybe it was naive of me, but I felt quite dispirited by the entire exchange.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;804854My impression of them is always that they have a low budget look to them, and they tend to have more "out of the box" premises in terms of gameplay or theme.

I actually like that I can go to a site like the above directly to find this kind of thing.

That's kinda true, but it's also partly that the major publishers have mostly stagnated over the last few years, into the three main genres of Cars, Guns and Sports, because they won't take risks any more... it's just too expensive (And partly that's their fault, when they started down the "you should buy our game because it has more graphics!" route, and partly it's our fault for all buying into that).

So you've got the far-out indie scene, and that's pretty nifty sometimes, but you've also got the "natural development of old genres" side of it, which is filling in the gaps that have been left behind, and doing the experimentation that the majors used to do.

Also, that site's going in the bookmarks, because it looks like a great resource, so thanks!

There's nothing wrong with cars / guns / sports games, of course - I'm not about to say "I don't think they are real games" or anything like that, because that would be stupid - I just like more variety.

Quote from: Alzrius;804870Maybe it was naive of me, but I felt quite dispirited by the entire exchange.

Are you surprise?  The social justice warriors control the media and I don't mean just video game media.  I mean all media.

Quote from: Snowman0147;804892Are you surprise?  The social justice warriors control the media and I don't mean just video game media.  I mean all media.

I shouldn't have been surprised, I know. But I was.

Quote from: Alzrius;804870Maybe it was naive of me, but I felt quite dispirited by the entire exchange.

I know this is exactly what would happen if I brought this up with my friends, so I don't. I talk about it anonymously online and vote with my wallet.

Cowardly yes, but my friends are mostly good people and we all have flaws and blind spots, so I don't want to lose them over something like this.

Besides, it would sound insanely hypocritical coming from me, because I used to dismiss conservative talking points with equally cavalier vehemence in the past. It's exactly the same thing, "I'm not even going to hear out this evil shit because I just intuitively know it's fascist cherry-picking straw-manning false consciousness."

I know where the worst of the anti-GG group is coming from because I was what they are. It wasn't until certain bad experiences in a fandom I don't care to mention really hit close to home that I realized the depths of my intellectual dishonesty.

Disclaimer: I certainly do not agree with everything GG does, and I do not turn my nose up at everything anti-GG does purely because of their stance. Case by case basis from now on.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;804907I know where the worst of the anti-GG group is coming from because I was what they are. It wasn't until certain bad experiences in a fandom I don't care to mention really hit close to home that I realized the depths of my intellectual dishonesty.

Pretty much this.

I consider myself something of a liberal progressive, then gamergate happened and now I have no choice but to side with conservative newsites; because they're usually the ones that rail the hardest against censorship and SJWs.

It's rather disheartening and it made me reconsider much of my own ideals. I used to think social justice and feminism were great things, and that anyone who thought otherwise was obviously insane. Now I know otherwise.

There is a thing that stumps me, and stumps me enormously. The narcissism of it all.

Look at the title of the OP: Fighting for a more ethical world. It's hard to conceive the amount of self-centeredness you need to have to think that "fixing" the journalism of your stupid hobby is going to make a more ethical world, instead of, dunno, teaching people not to be raging homophobe, racist, complete assholes over fucking videogames.

Developers get death threats over fixes in a patch of Call of Duty but the problem here is that some reviews may be dishonest.

Then gamers wonder why they have the image of idiotic assholes.

Quote from: PinkRobedReaper;805014I used to think social justice and feminism were great things, and that anyone who thought otherwise was obviously insane. Now I know otherwise.

To be fair I still think they are mostly good things, I'm just not willfully blind to their potential for authoritarian abuse anymore.

Quote from: ImperatorIt's hard to conceive the amount of self-centeredness you need to have to think that "fixing" the journalism of your stupid hobby is going to make a more ethical world, instead of, dunno, teaching people not to be raging homophobe, racist, complete assholes over fucking videogames.

We can improve journalism, fight online harassment, reduce discrimination and condemn radical social justice excesses at the same time. It's just that right now all these issues have been awkwardly bundled together by a very emotional, tribal political conflict. In time the specifics of gamergate will fade, allowing these various conversations more room to breathe again.

Quote from: Imperator;805020There is a thing that stumps me, and stumps me enormously. The narcissism of it all.

Look at the title of the OP: Fighting for a more ethical world. It's hard to conceive the amount of self-centeredness you need to have .

Sorry. That was written with tongue in cheek. Imagine it was the narrated title of a cyberpunk corporation's PR video with children playing and laughing on the background against a backdrop of a clear blue sky.

Title was just an attempt at making a little fun of the whole thing.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;805025We can improve journalism, fight online harassment, reduce discrimination and condemn radical social justice excesses at the same time. It's just that right now all these issues have been awkwardly bundled together by a very emotional, tribal political conflict. In time the specifics of gamergate will fade, allowing these various conversations more room to breathe again.

Surely all these things can happen simultaneously. It's just that when I see some gamers describing this fight against some journalists as "the good fight" it makes me puke.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;805027Sorry. That was written with tongue in cheek. Imagine it was the narrated title of a cyberpunk corporation's PR video with children playing and laughing on the background against a backdrop of a clear blue sky.

Title was just an attempt at making a little fun of the whole thing.

My apologies if I misread you, then.

Quote from: Imperator;805029My apologies if I misread you, then.

No need. Fault's on me.

Quote from: PinkRobedReaper;805014Pretty much this.

I consider myself something of a liberal progressive, then gamergate happened and now I have no choice but to side with conservative newsites; because they're usually the ones that rail the hardest against censorship and SJWs.

It's rather disheartening and it made me reconsider much of my own ideals. I used to think social justice and feminism were great things, and that anyone who thought otherwise was obviously insane. Now I know otherwise.

Those values are still valid. It's just the serious amount of political correctness that's all over the place. People are seeing anti-women and discrimination everywhere, even if it isn't there. I don't even mind SJW that much in gaming. It's much more serious with political issues. I think I might even be called a racist in the future by ordering a black coffee in a restaurant.

What also rubs me the wrong way is those policor people aren't seeing the world as it is. They think sexy women portayal in video games is making men look at them as lust objects for example. Nope, it's the other way around. Man look at women like lust objects and game companies know that and make those games, because it sells. Simple as that. Nothing you change about that. Women aren't any better themselves btw. Ever heard them talk about men?

Don't rush from one battle standard to another.

The problem with GG that you'll encounter in most spaces is that it is intimately tied with a lot of shit like:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/amazon-publishes-thinly-veiled-fantasy-of-gamergate-target-zoe-quinn/

And Felicia Day, and so on.

Trying to explain how you are a white supremacist but you aren't like THOSE white supremacists will pretty much sabotage things before you get a chance to explain how your approach isn't racist.

Quote from: Imperator;805020There is a thing that stumps me, and stumps me enormously. The narcissism of it all.

Look at the title of the OP: Fighting for a more ethical world. It's hard to conceive the amount of self-centeredness you need to have to think that "fixing" the journalism of your stupid hobby is going to make a more ethical world, instead of, dunno, teaching people not to be raging homophobe, racist, complete assholes over fucking videogames.

Developers get death threats over fixes in a patch of Call of Duty but the problem here is that some reviews may be dishonest.

Then gamers wonder why they have the image of idiotic assholes.

The whole "internet death threat" thing is just weird, both sides of any dustup do it, and I just don't get why.

Then again, I also don't understand why some people's response to murder, genocide, rape, misogyny, inequality and persecution of all kinds is to tweet about First World Entertainment Media while in line at StarBucks.

Here's the thing about #GamerGate:

Having a discussion about the ethics of video game journalism and pushing for more transparency therein: You have my support.

Using the above as a reason to threaten anyone with rape, murder, violence or harassment: Go fuck yourself you stupid piece of shit.

Not shutting down the people who ARE doing the the second things: The Pope song says it all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTIorwtJbhE

Regards,

TrekkieBOB