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Author Topic: #GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world  (Read 10646 times)

Novastar

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2014, 04:11:44 PM »
Note: Working in construction, I am perhaps more critical of conflict-of-interest than your normal person. I'm also very critical of "gifts" from biased sources. I don't want to be in a building that was built with 3000psi concrete, instead of 4000psi, because the inspector felt he "owed" a favor to the Contractor... :eek:
Quote from: dragoner;776244
Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn't what I play rpg's for.

Ladybird

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2014, 04:28:35 PM »
Quote from: Novastar;804547
Beyond a boycott of the game, there's not much the consumer can do to take the publisher to task.

Then that's what customers should do. If that means that we have to pass up playing a game we'd like because we're unhappy with the publisher, then so be it! Morals are hard.

And "don't buy" doesn't mean "pirate". "I'm boycotting them, so I'll pirate their games" is just an excuse, a weak justification for something the person wanted to do anyway.

Like, I haven't bought a Ubisoft title in over a decade now, because I could see that they were an awful publisher, even back then. The closest I've came is one of the new Rayman games, but the response to the latest round of Murder's Manifesto titles ("AC2014 wasn't great. Here at IGN, we've given Ubisoft a thorough minor tap on the pinkie, and written a bunch of articles on how they're sorry, how they are going to fix it, how the game is great otherwise, how they've fixed it, and all the stuff they held back but are now going to graciously give you for free. In conclusion, you should buy Murder's Manifesto 2014!") put me off. I'd like a nice 2D platform game, but I like my personal integrity more.

So yeah, I think it's fine to voice displeasure about these things... but that isn't what Gamergate is doing. If Nathan Grayson never wrote another article announcing that a game had made it through Steam Greenlight (For example), it still wouldn't do anything to hold the major publishers responsible, or to make gaming media any better for gamers. You have to go for the big targets. They're the only ones that matter.

(Ex-accountant; have worked under a code of professional ethics, have no intention of breaking them now even though I resigned my membership.)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 02:36:36 AM by Ladybird »
one two FUCK YOU

Ratman_tf

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2014, 04:59:48 PM »
Quote from: Motorskills;804532
But you (GG) already lost any or all credibility. No-one's listening to anything legitimate you want them to hear, they just see the toxicity that pervades the GG camp. As much as you point fingers, you did that to yourselves.


There are a lot of people falling for the anti-GG propoganda. There are a lot of people who agree with GG. I think it's disingenuous to try and portray this as GG being toxic and some nebulous "everyone" tut tutting at the bad, nasty GGers.

Quote
The reason I referenced Felicia Day in the now-closed* thread is that her experience is a perfect example of the damage that has been done. Calling her prejudiced and whatnot is just so blinkered-defensive**. Her enjoyment of our hobby has been fundamentally damaged by the GamerGate saga. And to what end?

**(Day's doxxing actually came after her post, for what it's worth. She was upset before that.).


Felicia Day can go piss up a rope. She bought the threat narrative that people like Anita Sarkeesian and Johnathan Mcintosh are spinng to make this into an identity politics issue. IMO if you want to see the toxicity in anti-GG, look to those kinds of people.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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This Guy

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2014, 05:12:53 PM »
Quote from: Novastar;804547

Beyond a boycott of the game, there's not much the consumer can do to take the publisher to task. It's A LOT easier to hold the journalists to task, since the SJP of Ethics says they should refuse the gift, since it creates a conflict-of-interest.


Better the easy and useless thing, I suppose.
I don't want to play with you.

Elfdart

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2014, 10:55:42 PM »
Quote from: Novastar;804364
For those that want to see Journalism offenses, and some steps taken by websites to address those concerns:
A Review of Games Journalism

For many of us, Anita Sarkeesian has serious credibility issues:
http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/anita-sarkeesian-unmasked-feminist-icon-or-con-artist/
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/11/27/An-open-letter-to-Bloomberg-s-Sheelah-Kolhatkar-on-the-delicate-matter-of-Anita-Sarkeesian

Both Adam Sessler and Jim Sterling (prominent gaming journalists) believe they have a god-given Right to illegally doxx you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lje1viM_djY


Am I the only one laughing out loud that anyone would cite Breitbart as a source to accuse someone else of lacking ethics in journalism?

It's like pretending to be concerned for the welfare of kids and citing NAMBLA as a credible source.
:rotfl:
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can't understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We're not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck's sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron's review of The Phantom Menace

ArrozConLeche

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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2014, 11:02:31 PM »
Quote from: Elfdart;804595
Am I the only one laughing out loud that anyone would cite Breitbart as a source to accuse someone else of lacking ethics in journalism?

It's like pretending to be concerned for the welfare of kids and citing NAMBLA as a credible source.
:rotfl:


Is the Breitbart article untruthful or unfactual in any way?

ArrozConLeche

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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2014, 11:31:06 PM »
Quote from: Motorskills;804532


But you (GG) already lost any or all credibility. No-one's listening to anything legitimate you want them to hear, they just see the toxicity that pervades the GG camp. As much as you point fingers, you did that to yourselves.


Have proof of this pervasiveness, or are you generalizing from the things the media chooses to focus on?

I just took this archive of Kia, showing the hottestnthreads, and I don't know if this is what you consider toxicity. The most I could fault in it is the few threads against sarkeesian, which seem pointless to me as far as what their goals are.

https://archive.today/EtefB


All,

There's now something called metalgate.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 11:33:26 PM by ArrozConLeche »

Novastar

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2014, 11:37:15 PM »
Quote from: Elfdart;804595
Am I the only one laughing out loud that anyone would cite Breitbart as a source to accuse someone else of lacking ethics in journalism?

Indeed, it is pretty miserable when Breitbart looks like a bastion of credible journalism.

THAT's how bad gaming journalism is.

Quote from: This Guy
Better the easy and useless thing, I suppose.

No, that would be the anti-GG stance of "Call the Consumers misogynerds, ignore the problem, and hope everything goes back to the way it was..."
Quote from: dragoner;776244
Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn't what I play rpg's for.

Elfdart

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2014, 11:48:59 PM »
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;804596
Is the Breitbart article untruthful or unfactual in any way?


If Breitbart wrote that the sun rose in the east yesterday morning, I'd demand to see unaltered video proof. The organization, like the pathological liar who created it*, is chock full of some of the most depraved liars you'll encounter outside of a convention for holocaust deniers. Just Google "Shirley Sherrod".

*Andrew Breitbart was such a shameless liar, forger and huckster that when he made the sterling career move of dropping dead on a sidewalk, more than a few people upon hearing the news, assumed he was doing another of his fucktarded publicity stunts.

The article itself is dishonest in pretending that death and rape threats aren't a serious matter. Don't believe me? Feel free to send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and see how long it takes before the Secret Service nails your balls to the wall.

The fact that so many fucktards send these kinds of threats that the authorities can't really do much about them doesn't make them OK. Nor does the fact that most of the wankers sending them couldn't work up the nerve to pour salt on a slug. Contacting their moms isn't necessarily foolproof.
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can't understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We're not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck's sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron's review of The Phantom Menace

Elfdart

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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2014, 11:52:18 PM »
Quote from: Novastar;804599
Indeed, it is pretty miserable when Breitbart looks like a bastion of credible journalism.

THAT's how bad gaming journalism is.



If Breitbart "looks like a bastion of credible journalism" then you need to change your bong water more often. If you want someone to give Anita Sarkeesian the heckling she richly deserves, try Thunderf00t. He's not a dishonest bullshitter.
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can't understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We're not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck's sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron's review of The Phantom Menace

Motorskills

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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2014, 12:04:40 AM »
Quote from: Elfdart;804601
If Breitbart "looks like a bastion of credible journalism" then you need to change your bong water more often. If you want someone to give Anita Sarkeesian the heckling she richly deserves, try Thunderf00t. He's not a dishonest bullshitter.


I've not seen anything more recent, but this was pretty damning at the time.
“Gosh it’s so interesting (profoundly unsurprising) how men with all these opinions about women’s differentiation between sexual misconduct, assault and rape reveal themselves to be utterly tone deaf and as a result, systemically part of the problem.” - Minnie Driver, December 2017

" Using the phrase "virtue signalling" is 'I'm a sociopath' signalling ". J Wright, July 2018

Novastar

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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2014, 12:52:46 AM »
Quote from: Elfdart;804601
If Breitbart "looks like a bastion of credible journalism" then you need to change your bong water more often. If you want someone to give Anita Sarkeesian the heckling she richly deserves, try Thunderf00t. He's not a dishonest bullshitter.

Breitbart as an organization I cannot talk about, but Milo Yiannopoulos has been one of the few and far between journalists actually willing to do some investigative journalism. He uncovered the GamesJournosPros Google+ group. Which they talked about actively censoring the Quinn story (actually, they talked about getting her a sympathy gift. That's a new level of FU'd conflict-of-interest...), talked over punitive actions of staff with competitors, and coordinated a narrative to spin stories (similar to the original JournoList)

Also, it's hard to link to ThunderFoot on Twitter, since his account got suspended for "harassment", despite the fact it mostly links to his YouTube Channel. WAM at work!
Quote from: dragoner;776244
Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn't what I play rpg's for.

Novastar

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2014, 02:51:21 PM »
As the subject of Breitbart's credibility has been brought up, I thought this chart was handy (Breitbart is not included, unfortunately):
Quote from: dragoner;776244
Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn't what I play rpg's for.

Ladybird

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2014, 03:01:45 PM »
Quote from: Novastar;804644
As the subject of Breitbart's credibility has been brought up, I thought this chart was handy (Breitbart is not included, unfortunately):

Erm, context? Dates, source, sample size?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 03:02:45 PM by Ladybird »
one two FUCK YOU

Sacrosanct

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#GamerGate: Fighting for a more ethical world
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2014, 03:09:02 PM »
Not surprising, but that's disappointing about Al Jezeera.  They have some really good programming on there.  Too bad people see the name and think it's some sort of mouthpiece for Islam.

Also of no surprise is Fox News.  Once again, the "You're with us or against us" network.  And RM wouldn't have it any other way.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.