Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;573980I'm looking through some GURPS Star Wars rules that have been posted on the net to see how "the force" is handled in that game system.

If it's another one utilising that worthless Control/Sense/Alter paradigm we've been lumbered with since WEG/D6, you're probably best passing.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;573956But lately they just don't know what they fuck they are doing: rules are routinely poorly written and incomplete, Elder Sign, frx, was a mess.

I really like Elder Sign. What problems did you have with it?

Quote from: Kiero;573982If it's another one utilising that worthless Control/Sense/Alter paradigm we've been lumbered with since WEG/D6, you're probably best passing.

which is actually how the jedi operate.

Quote from: Ladybird;573984I really like Elder Sign. What problems did you have with it?

for one the monster rules completely omitted how you place monsters in certain situations (iirc when there were no monster spaces left). Some of the characters abilities were so vague as to be broken. Read Boardgamegeek. It's all on there.

Quote from: Kiero;573982If it's another one utilising that worthless Control/Sense/Alter paradigm we've been lumbered with since WEG/D6, you're probably best passing.

The GURPS rules I'm looking at now does have those three powers in its mechanics.  What problems did your group have with them?

Quote from: stouty;573040"For example, you might succeed in wrestling a Gamorrean to the ground as you planned, but in doing so your blaster might fall from its holster and slide just out of reach. On the other hand, you might utterly fail in your attempts to lie to an Imperial customs officer, but in doing so discover that he's open to bribery. The ever-present potential for success with complications or failure with advantages adds a compelling layer of realism to all your endeavors."

Isn't this why we have imagination?

Indeed it is.

And while we're at it, lets also ditch random character generation and Lifepath systems like we have in Traveller and CyberPunk too, because IMAGINATION! Oh, and all those random tables for encounters, planets, scenarios, aliens, and all that really kick me in the imagination too, so out they go. And I absolutely HATE how those critical hit/miss tables undermine my imagination, so woosh.

Oh, almost forgot the baby and the bathwater. Also excluded middle.

Imagination needs to be inspired, and that's one of the key purposes of using a game system in the first place. If the game results are not giving players a seed of an idea to go with, then it's just as bad as giving them a blank piece of paper and asking them to draw something. And I far prefer the inspiration to be easily inferred from the dice rather than look up some stupid table.

Some people are wondering if this is representative of the finished product: ie will it have all the extras that WFRP ended up with?

This is more likley than it would seem IMO because the product is likely to be boxed in order to ship with the rules and the dice. If they don't at least package the basic product with dice and expect them to be sold separate then that's crackers.

Gencon seminar.

'we've really learned a lot from 40k'.

Nope.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;574010The GURPS rules I'm looking at now does have those three powers in its mechanics.  What problems did your group have with them?

Every iteration that treats the Force as three skills produces Jedi who are incompetent compared to their equivalent non-Force-users, because they have a massive resource-sink in just being competent with the Force. Which doesn't match any of the Jedi we see in the prequels, Clone Wars or KotOR.

I was so glad when Saga Edition finally killed that sacred cow and produced a single Use the Force skill. Not that it stops the number of fan conversions that slavishly adhere to the three-skill model.

The prequels were shit.

So is Wushu.

No one cares, Kiero.  Do you even play games?

Quote from: J Arcane;574101The prequels were shit.

So is Wushu.

No one cares, Kiero.  Do you even play games?

I'd say the same of the original trilogy, which lacking nostalgia-taint is pretty average at best.

Yes, I play games, thanks, so fuck off and go bother someone else.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;574034Some people are wondering if this is representative of the finished product: ie will it have all the extras that WFRP ended up with?

This is more likley than it would seem IMO because the product is likely to be boxed in order to ship with the rules and the dice. If they don't at least package the basic product with dice and expect them to be sold separate then that's crackers.

There are some countries where book + dice is categorised as a "board game", and taxed differently - T1R was released separately in some places (I want to say Germany, but I could be wrong) for that reason. In the UK and US, it will probably be a book + dice set.

Quote from: Kiero;574078Every iteration that treats the Force as three skills produces Jedi who are incompetent compared to their equivalent non-Force-users, because they have a massive resource-sink in just being competent with the Force. Which doesn't match any of the Jedi we see in the prequels, Clone Wars or KotOR.

It sounds like Jedi characters for GURPS would need to start with more points than general public characters would start with.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;574211It sounds like Jedi characters for GURPS would need to start with more points than general public characters would start with.

If you can sell your players on that, more power to you. Good luck either way.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;573993which is actually how the jedi operate.

Only because those are the rules WEG wrote. The influence of the WEG RPG on the EU is immense, but there's nothing in the original trilogy to suggest the Control/Sense/Alter triumvirate is inherent.

Quotefor one the monster rules completely omitted how you place monsters in certain situations (iirc when there were no monster spaces left).

I generally find FFG's rulebooks to be poorly organized and written, but this is factually untrue. The first paragraph on page 11 of the rulebook (right smack dab in the middle of the "Monsters" section) reads:

"If there are no monster tasks in play not already covered by a Monster marker, the active player chooses any 1 Adventure card and places the Monster marker under the bottom task of the card, adding an additional task to the Adventure card."

Quote from: Kiero;574078Every iteration that treats the Force as three skills produces Jedi who are incompetent compared to their equivalent non-Force-users, because they have a massive resource-sink in just being competent with the Force. Which doesn't match any of the Jedi we see in the prequels, Clone Wars or KotOR.

Really?
Cause I found it the opposite problem; while everyone else had to sink points into a dozen skills to get better at their archetype, Jedi just pumped it into Control, Sense, and Alter (with the occasional investment into Lightsaber, in case they run into Jedi Killers), and rapidly advanced to God Mode.

And really, from what we see of the Jedi in the movies, all their powers can be broken down into: Telepathy, Telekinesis, and Prescience.