So I just got this today (along with Delving Deeper), and I have to ask: this this an RPG? Reading through it, almost seems like an exercise in self-psychoanalysis. Not trying to be disparaging here, but I cannot figure out WTF is going on with this thing.

Short answer yes, with the caveat that it alters the DM's role or the system basically places training wheels on the DM so that instead of using their creativity & judgement to run a game they're basically reduced to the system's custodian

Here on the rpg site however,  Pundit has declared it 'not an rpg' , though I've gotten the impression that it's because it's derived from another game that was written by someone who is friends with one of the pundit's arch-foes & he's never actually read/ played the game.

I thought there were enough good ideas there that I'll be using many of them if I ever run D&D again, but I consider myself a competent enough GM that I wouldn't need the system's straight jacket

Quote from: Brad;667330So I just got this today (along with Delving Deeper), and I have to ask: this this an RPG? Reading through it, almost seems like an exercise in self-psychoanalysis. Not trying to be disparaging here, but I cannot figure out WTF is going on with this thing.

What do you mean by "an exercise in self-psychoanalysis"? Do you have quotes to share?

Quote from: Benoist;667333What do you mean by "an exercise in self-psychoanalysis"? Do you have quotes to share?

"There is no quicker way to ruin the consistency of Dungeon World than to tell the players what you're making. Your moves are prompts to you, not things you say directly."

Seriously? That sounds like an undergraduate psychology textbook. It's an overly complicated, and essentially meaningless way, to tell the GM something they should already know. I figured I was wasting my money on this thing, but at least I'm not going to hate it without reason.

Dungeon World gives explicit advice on a lot of stuff that an experienced GM has learnt. You will find yourself slapping your head and saying: "of course, I always do that" quite a bit.

I have seen a number of old hat GMs being offended by this approach, but any GM worth their salt will find it just as easy to read the advice appropriately, as Tristam Evans says. On the positive side, this approach makes it an excellent RPG for new GMs IME.

Quote from: TristramEvans;667331Short answer yes..

Here on the rpg site however,  Pundit has declared it 'not an rpg' , though I've gotten the impression that it's because it's derived from another game that was written by someone who is friends with one of the pundit's arch-foes & he's never actually read/ played the game.

This.

Yeah, after reading about half the book, I can safely say it's not an RPG, at least not how I typically understand one to be. In the first thirty pages, "the fiction" must appear at least twice per paragraph. This is an exercise in collaborative story telling, not really a game. Some of the ideas are actually pretty good (abstracting combat, how skills are handled), but the GM seems neutered to the point that they're nothing more than an adversarial player of sorts, and without a true referee I can't consider this an RPG. It's only a game in the loosest sense, considering the goal is not to overcome obstacles, but only to have obstacles out in front of the characters and see what happens. Failure is just as valuable as success if it brings about something interesting. Again, that's a fine goal for a novel, but pretty awful for a game.

I might steal some of the mechanics, so at least it's not a total waste of money.

Quote from: Brad;667352"There is no quicker way to ruin the consistency of Dungeon World than to tell the players what you're making. Your moves are prompts to you, not things you say directly."

Seriously? That sounds like an undergraduate psychology textbook.

I'm fairly certain you don't actually know what the word "psychology" actually means.

I am completely certain that you're a troll.

And it is laughably certain that claiming a game that says "don't tell your players that you're rolling on a random monster table, just have the orcs show up" is therefore not a roleplaying game is the most ludicrous thing I've read this month.

Justin, when you run AW/DW do you try to use the MC moves strictly as suggested by the book ? Or you take it only as loose GMing advice ?

I ask because when I began running AW I took it as loose advice, but now Im trying to follow it strictly. Im finding it difficult, but rewarding in a interesting way - its almost as the MC is playing his own little game in paralell to the players.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;667413I'm fairly certain you don't actually know what the word "psychology" actually means.

I am completely certain that you're a troll.

And it is laughably certain that claiming a game that says "don't tell your players that you're rolling on a random monster table, just have the orcs show up" is therefore not a roleplaying game is the most ludicrous thing I've read this month.

You forgot to link to your blog where you explain what the term psychology means.

Quote from: Brad;667407Yeah, after reading about half the book, I can safely say it's not an RPG, at least not how I typically understand one to be. In the first thirty pages, "the fiction" must appear at least twice per paragraph. This is an exercise in collaborative story telling, not really a game. Some of the ideas are actually pretty good (abstracting combat, how skills are handled), but the GM seems neutered to the point that they're nothing more than an adversarial player of sorts, and without a true referee I can't consider this an RPG. It's only a game in the loosest sense, considering the goal is not to overcome obstacles, but only to have obstacles out in front of the characters and see what happens. Failure is just as valuable as success if it brings about something interesting. Again, that's a fine goal for a novel, but pretty awful for a game.

I might steal some of the mechanics, so at least it's not a total waste of money.

Indeed.

Unfortunately the latest tactic of SG fans is to then respond by pointing to the handful of bits that still actually do look like a traditional game or at least have the chrome of one, and screech about how dare you suggest it is anything but, accuse you of some nebulous charge of partisanship, and go round and round with circular logic for 10 and a half pages of thread.

Then someone gets banned, a thread gets locked, the SG fans stage a martyrdom in the admin forum, start making Godwins left and right or getting indignant that no one else thinks child rape is funny or something, that gets locked too, and then another thread like this gets started once more.  

Welcome to the circle of suck.

Quote from: Rincewind1;667463You forgot to link to your blog where you explain what the term psychology means.

:rotfl:

Quote from: Rincewind1;667463You forgot to link to your blog where you explain what the term psychology means.

Now THAT was funny.
:hatsoff:

Quote from: Justin Alexander;667413I'm fairly certain you don't actually know what the word "psychology" actually means.

I am completely certain that you're a troll.

And it is laughably certain that claiming a game that says "don't tell your players that you're rolling on a random monster table, just have the orcs show up" is therefore not a roleplaying game is the most ludicrous thing I've read this month.

I didn't make such a claim. I'm laughably certain you are illiterate and overreacting due to my calling Dungeon World a non-RPG. Thanks!

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