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Author Topic: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?  (Read 774 times)

Neoplatonist1

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Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« on: November 28, 2022, 05:19:51 PM »
Do any board games, miniature wargames, or video games feature realistic enough warfare scenarios for the Art of War to apply to them?

Warhammer 40K, for example, does it portray realistic combat, after accounting for superweapons and power armor, such that the principles found in Art of War apply to them, or is its action completely phony?



Ratman_tf

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2023, 08:33:32 PM »
Do any board games, miniature wargames, or video games feature realistic enough warfare scenarios for the Art of War to apply to them?

Warhammer 40K, for example, does it portray realistic combat, after accounting for superweapons and power armor, such that the principles found in Art of War apply to them, or is its action completely phony?

40k is totally action movie nonsense (fun nonsense!) with a thin layer of tactics and strategy.

The game I'm currently playing that I think would fit the bill is Twilight Imperium 4th edition. There's a lot more going on via trade and politics. The goal isn't necessarily to fight. The goal is to achieve victory points, which may or may not involve fighting. So you have to put more thought into when are where and why to fight. Which is more along the subject of Art of War.

I've been meaning to start a thread here about TI4, but wasn't sure how interested people would be. It's a complex game, and there's a lot on the internet already about it.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 08:35:12 PM by Ratman_tf »
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tenbones

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2023, 10:58:22 AM »
Multiplayer Civ4 can use all the Art of War principles to great effect. I've done it.

Itachi

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2023, 05:55:42 PM »
Yeah, I think Civ games (SMAC including) are probably your best bet, together with some Paradox titles (Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings). Total War series while fun are somewhat simplified in the strategic layer.

Kyle Aaron

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2023, 06:36:20 PM »
Games against computers never represent real conflicts, because computers are indifferent to loss of resources and life, have no morale, etc. Computers require you to chase down the last individual soldier on a map for victory, reality doesn't require this.

The Art of War tells you how to fight wars against humans. To make it relevant, you need to fight wars against humans, or simulate doing so.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2023, 07:58:11 AM »
Games against computers never represent real conflicts, because computers are indifferent to loss of resources and life, have no morale, etc. Computers require you to chase down the last individual soldier on a map for victory, reality doesn't require this.

The Art of War tells you how to fight wars against humans. To make it relevant, you need to fight wars against humans, or simulate doing so.
Really? A large number of games now model things like morale and attrition. I grant there are always holdouts, but you know, there were those real-world Japanese soldiers who refused to surrender in WW2 as well.

That being said, Art of War is more philosophy than applied tactics. You have to be able to apply the concepts instinctively. I remember having an amusing argument with, of all people, the Mittani (yeah, the Something Awful guy) where he was deriding the Art of War as pointless -- and I pointed out that the Goons had been inherently using the very principles from the book. All warfare is deception, after all.

zircher

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2023, 10:47:03 AM »
Back in the day I used The Art of War inspired tactics is a space PBeM 4x game and crushed my human opponents.
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Yabba

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2023, 12:54:57 PM »
Neptunes Pride my friend. Manipulating strangers online is hella Art of War
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Itachi

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2023, 10:39:44 AM »
Games against computers never represent real conflicts, because computers are indifferent to loss of resources and life, have no morale, etc. Computers require you to chase down the last individual soldier on a map for victory, reality doesn't require this.
Your view on eletronic games seems outdated. Lots of PC conflict games simulate public support, armies morale, allies opinions, etc. Most Paradox games do that, for example.

S'mon

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Re: Do any games reward reading and applying the book Art of War?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2023, 05:12:45 PM »
The Art of War isn't really much about combat/battle. It's much more about the strategic and operational level of war. I don't find it very relevant for playing against AI opponents in strategy games.