https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW0PZy5UvlY
GW retcons female Custodes, gaslights fans that there were female Custodes all along...
GW stonks fall. Coinkydink?
For those who don't know 40k, the Custodes were one of the Emprah's many genetic engineering projects along with the Thunder Warriors and Space Marines. So this is within spitting distance of retconning Female Space Marines. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40)
Females have their own factions. This is unnecessary.
Honestly, I'm not surprised. I'd hoped they would hold to their actual lore rather than bend to antifans, but that ship seems to have very well sailed now.
On the bright side GW has thus officially laid down the authority to dictate 40K lore, now we just have to make sure 40K survives and doesn't wither under the shadow of WorkshopK like Star Wars did under the shadow of DisneyWars. GW is just about as litigious as the mouse though, so we'll have to see.
There is no point in doing this beyond trying to appeal to people who don't, never have and never will give a flying fuck about Warhammer 40k beyond using it to virtue signal. That giant chunky figure in the ornate armor that looks just like the rest is a woman. Okay. Women can play Custodes now because representation? They couldn't before because GW hadn't said that some of those are supposed to be women even though they all look the same? What they really want is to force GW to retcon female space marines. That's what they have been trying to force the entire time. That's the popular thing that people actually know about. This is just the foot in the door.
Custodes always were for me uncessary double in world of SM, so I can only hope this will end with financial crash and retroactive retconning Custodes existence from all lore.
Would female space marines be just as strong as male space marines, even though they have less muscle mass? Do they have special "girly" muscles that are more efficient than boy muscles? If so, why couldn't the male space marines get their muscles replaced with girly muscles and so become even stronger than before?
mmm. Girl boss Space Marines going around the galaxy defeating the xenos. Putting Chaos in it's place and reforming the Imperium to be more include and diversive while showing up those bumbling guy Space Marines.
It sells itself!
QuoteWould female space marines be just as strong as male space marines, even though they have less muscle mass? Do they have special "girly" muscles that are more efficient than boy muscles? If so, why couldn't the male space marines get their muscles replaced with girly muscles and so become even stronger than before?
Oh for fuck sake, take your dirty realism from my Warhammer 40k you pleb.
Thing is - Space Marines are artificially designed super-humans implanted with more bio-artifice than anything. Enough bio-artifice to make them suddenly look bit like clones of their Primarchs. Their muscle mass is so big it makes real life man-woman difference to be negligible.
If we wanna take logic of WH40k, as it is there are two reasons it should not exist: a) it was stated in lore the implants works only with men so it would be retcon b) and more meta - considering how SM mutation change men, it's quite obvious space marine woman if possible would look very much like male Space Marine.
Nah, my head canon remains that Custodes are ripped men with oiled abs, cloaks, and suspiciously Eldar looking helmets as per Rogue Trader.
If you're genuinely upset about this, then make your own IP. I don't like GW's business practices anyway, so I'd support you for that reason alone
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 16, 2024, 08:56:17 PMIf you're genuinely upset about this, then make your own IP. I don't like GW's business practices anyway, so I'd support you for that reason alone
Nah, now, in all ways except legal, 40K belongs to the community now. GW are the ones that made a new IP, they just are using a name for something else that they own copyright for. I'll just keep liking 40K instead of this new thing.
Bad move IMO. 3D printing is pretty good now. People are upset I think not so much for one retcon...but for the signal about the future it sends (we all get to see through corporate actions how much stock is in BR and Vanguard hands). The people really responsible for the change are in a full on culture war and will never, ever stop. I hope GW suffers for it.
Custodes suck and puting girls in won't change that either way.
Give me Rogue Trader era Custodes with their shirts off and maybe we can talk reasonabley.
I think the most telling thing about the "there should be female space marines" camp is that they've been whining about it for eight edtions now. There were some "female space marine models in the Rogue Trader Adventurers range. What they were called, I do not know but you couldn't complain they didn't exist at the time.
Greetings!
*SIGH*. Let Games Workshop burn to the ground. Let them choke. I have some sympathy for some players--I, myself, was a fan and customer, long ago.
Yes, I invested in the first edition of GW's Epic Space Marine. So, 40K, but in 6mm or 15mm. Whatever mm the armies were. Just mass scale sized armies. I had Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Eldar, Chaos, and Tyranids. 5,000 Point Armies for each. Yes, that is huge. I invested literally thousands of dollars into that game.
Then, one day, Games Workshop decided to choke on shit, and cancel the entire game. *SNAP* Just like that. No more miniatures, no more articles, no more books, no more tournaments. DONE.
I at the time said fuck Games Workshop. They can bathe in napalm.
I have never bought a Games Workshop game since then.
They are a greedy, selfish, careless, and inconsiderate company. On top of those sparkling virtues, they are now also Woke.
So, yeah. I have some sympathy for GW gamers, but geesus. Wake the fuck up. This company jerks off on their customers with just about every game system they do, every two or three years. Stop being a fucking bitch. Stop being stupid. Stop patronizing Games Workshop and giving them your money.
Choose to patronize other companies that yes, are more moral than Games Workshop, companies that treat their customers with more consideration and respect--respect for them as people, respect for their customers preferences, devotion, time, and money.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
The GW Official account on X said "There have always been female Custodians".
Anyone else get "Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia" vibes from it? I thought 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a guide book.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 17, 2024, 09:44:46 AMCustodes suck and puting girls in won't change that either way.
Give me Rogue Trader era Custodes with their shirts off and maybe we can talk reasonabley.
I think the most telling thing about the "there should be female space marines" camp is that they've been whining about it for eight edtions now. There were some "female space marine models in the Rogue Trader Adventurers range. What they were called, I do not know but you couldn't complain they didn't exist at the time.
Female Warrior Gabs and Female Warrior Jayne were adventurers who wore Space Marine style power armor.
https://gamesworkshop.fandom.com/wiki/Female_Space_Marines
They were never marketed as "Female Space Marines" and were more likely a very early version of Sisters of Battle.
There were never Female Space Marine models, and several mentions in lore that the process only works on males.
Fair enough, the armour's the same, only skinnier but mercenaries and all kinds of folks were using MK VI armour back in the day.
The problem is that people love the setting and are heavily invested in it. But of course you can use Grim Dark Future for rules and buy proxies from all the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies.
It'd be nice if something would come along that would scratch that itch for people. For a long time now, I've been saying the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies should all get behind a single new setting and system to unify their customer base instead of all having their own.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 17, 2024, 08:03:49 PMFair enough, the armour's the same, only skinnier but mercenaries and all kinds of folks were using MK VI armour back in the day.
The problem is that people love the setting and are heavily invested in it. But of course you can use Grim Dark Future for rules and buy proxies from all the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies.
It'd be nice if something would come along that would scratch that itch for people. For a long time now, I've been saying the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies should all get behind a single new setting and system to unify their customer base instead of all having their own.
As you say, Grimdark Future from the One Page Rules line has been gaining momenum. Espeically with GW being a major dissapointment for various reasons, not only culture war stuff.
https://www.onepagerules.com/
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 14, 2024, 08:56:10 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW0PZy5UvlY
GW retcons female Custodes, gaslights fans that there were female Custodes all along...
GW stonks fall. Coinkydink?
For those who don't know 40k, the Custodes were one of the Emprah's many genetic engineering projects along with the Thunder Warriors and Space Marines. So this is within spitting distance of retconning Female Space Marines. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40)
was going to share some images but it seems we can no longer upload those.
I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the use of the she pronoun doesn't mean that the Custodian wasn't born (and remains) male, right?
They are 'trans-human' after all...
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2024, 12:03:32 AMQuote from: David Johansen on April 17, 2024, 08:03:49 PMFair enough, the armour's the same, only skinnier but mercenaries and all kinds of folks were using MK VI armour back in the day.
The problem is that people love the setting and are heavily invested in it. But of course you can use Grim Dark Future for rules and buy proxies from all the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies.
It'd be nice if something would come along that would scratch that itch for people. For a long time now, I've been saying the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies should all get behind a single new setting and system to unify their customer base instead of all having their own.
As you say, Grimdark Future from the One Page Rules line has been gaining momenum. Espeically with GW being a major dissapointment for various reasons, not only culture war stuff.
https://www.onepagerules.com/
Grimdark Future has female space marines tho. The backstory for the battle sisters is that they were created because the god-king banned women from serving, so his girlfriend made her own queendom with female space marines. That's not a dealbreaker for me, but I can't speak for anyone else.
Anyway, I've been saying for years that corpos cannot steward their IPs and we need the fans to make their own. IPs inevitably rot or get canceled for lame reasons, so you can't rely on anyone other than dedicated fans to maintain them.
We also need to reform copyright law to preserve old forgotten works, but that's gonna be harder.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 11:19:55 AMQuote from: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2024, 12:03:32 AMQuote from: David Johansen on April 17, 2024, 08:03:49 PMFair enough, the armour's the same, only skinnier but mercenaries and all kinds of folks were using MK VI armour back in the day.
The problem is that people love the setting and are heavily invested in it. But of course you can use Grim Dark Future for rules and buy proxies from all the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies.
It'd be nice if something would come along that would scratch that itch for people. For a long time now, I've been saying the NOTWARHAMMERPROXY companies should all get behind a single new setting and system to unify their customer base instead of all having their own.
As you say, Grimdark Future from the One Page Rules line has been gaining momenum. Espeically with GW being a major dissapointment for various reasons, not only culture war stuff.
https://www.onepagerules.com/
Grimdark Future has female space marines tho. The backstory for the battle sisters is that they were created because the god-king banned women from serving, so his girlfriend made her own queendom with female space marines. That's not a dealbreaker for me, but I can't speak for anyone else.
One Page Rules will give a gamer a "living game" that's got rules updates and they can use lore from older editions of 40k, since many of the factions in Grimdark Future are famous IP's with just enough differences to make them identifiable but not infringing on copyright.
IE One Page Rules is a way to play with your old figures and old rulebooks with a current system that means you can go to the local game store and everyone is on the... same page... ruleswise.
And most importantly, not give GW any more money.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 17, 2024, 09:44:46 AMI think the most telling thing about the "there should be female space marines" camp is that they've been whining about it for eight edtions now. There were some "female space marine models in the Rogue Trader Adventurers range. What they were called, I do not know but you couldn't complain they didn't exist at the time.
They were just called "female warriors," but if you pay attention to the designs on their power armor you see that they are Rogue Trader era Sisters of Battle (they have the insignia from the main Rogue Trader rule book molded on).
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2024, 11:26:21 AMOne Page Rules will give a gamer a "living game" that's got rules updates and they can use lore from older editions of 40k, since many of the factions in Grimdark Future are famous IP's with just enough differences to make them identifiable but not infringing on copyright.
IE One Page Rules is a way to play with your old figures and old rulebooks with a current system that means you can go to the local game store and everyone is on the... same page... ruleswise.
And most importantly, not give GW any more money.
What exactly are you supposed to do if you're interested in non-miniatures media like rpgs, video games, books, etc?
I don't see the point, and I think it's funny how the usual characters are playing it off as no big deal, while also celebrating it like it's some victory. If it's not a big deal, why bother to change the lore that way anyway?
It's also the way they made the change: a crappy reply Tweet that just asserts they've always been there even though theres no lore suggesting that. It's the same thing as when they gave the Emperor a female assistant to aid in the creation of Space Marines. It was an unnecessary change that undermined the lore rather than improve it.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMI don't see the point, and I think it's funny how the usual characters are playing it off as no big deal, while also celebrating it like it's some victory. If it's not a big deal, why bother to change the lore that way anyway?
If it's not a big deal, then why does it matter if it gets changed?
Custodes are engineered supersoldiers. I don't think it matters what they had between their legs before they were modified.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMIt's also the way they made the change: a crappy reply Tweet that just asserts they've always been there even though theres no lore suggesting that.
GW has done this on numerous occasions. It's called retconning.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMIt's the same thing as when they gave the Emperor a female assistant to aid in the creation of Space Marines. It was an unnecessary change that undermined the lore rather than improve it.
They gave the Emperor
two female assistants: Amar Astarte and Erda. They were introduced in two separate works by two separate authors who didn't seem to know about the other's work, so they're both credited with creating the primarchs and scattering them. I find it odd that no editor caught this, but GW probably isn't paying attention.
I'm not going to cast aspersions that fans are misogynistic chuds because that's obviously not true, but I definitely think the nerds are being OCD and overly sensitive to these retcons. I don't blame them for being overly sensitive given the past mistreatment, but you're still being overly sensitive and giving your opponents ammunition to use against you.
While I think GW's PR here is terrible, I don't see any compelling reason to maintain that Custodes and Astartes all had pickles before they were recruited.
The reason why Sisters of Battle are female has to do with social and legal reasons in the background, which were deliberately written so as to have an all-female army. The Ecclesiarchy is legally barred from having men at arms, but the loophole is that they can still employ women at arms.
The reason why Custodes and Astartes were historically male is because we just assumed they were because their miniatures lacked boobs due to disinterest in making models with boobs, then later on various writers contrived lore reasons for them to be male. Their appearance could just as easily have been explained as the procedures masculinizing female recruits, or just not called out (e.g. the Little Sisters of Purification used regular models despite being female).
There's no female guard models, but I don't see people arguing that there's no female guard. There's copious examples in the lore, just not on the table. Why are Custodes and Astartes being treated differently?
GW is guilty of tons of awful stuff, like suing innocent housewives (google "Spots the Space Marine"), but instead fans fixate on irrelevant trivia like this.
If you're genuinely upset about this stuff, then make your own games. I already hate GW so I'd patronize you for that reason alone. We need more alternatives to their monopoly.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 01:27:50 PMQuote from: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2024, 11:26:21 AMOne Page Rules will give a gamer a "living game" that's got rules updates and they can use lore from older editions of 40k, since many of the factions in Grimdark Future are famous IP's with just enough differences to make them identifiable but not infringing on copyright.
IE One Page Rules is a way to play with your old figures and old rulebooks with a current system that means you can go to the local game store and everyone is on the... same page... ruleswise.
And most importantly, not give GW any more money.
What exactly are you supposed to do if you're interested in non-miniatures media like rpgs, video games, books, etc?
Unless they can reach into your home and retcon what you bought and own I don't see a problem:
Keep playing what you enjoy, re-read what you love and ONLY buy new stuff from people that don't hate you.
Now, if you MUST have new products for a converged IP then homebrew/fanfic it out of thin air.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 02:51:36 PMQuote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMI don't see the point, and I think it's funny how the usual characters are playing it off as no big deal, while also celebrating it like it's some victory. If it's not a big deal, why bother to change the lore that way anyway?
If it's not a big deal, then why does it matter if it gets changed?
Custodes are engineered supersoldiers. I don't think it matters what they had between their legs before they were modified.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMIt's also the way they made the change: a crappy reply Tweet that just asserts they've always been there even though theres no lore suggesting that.
GW has done this on numerous occasions. It's called retconning.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMIt's the same thing as when they gave the Emperor a female assistant to aid in the creation of Space Marines. It was an unnecessary change that undermined the lore rather than improve it.
They gave the Emperor two female assistants: Amar Astarte and Erda. They were introduced in two separate works by two separate authors who didn't seem to know about the other's work, so they're both credited with creating the primarchs and scattering them. I find it odd that no editor caught this, but GW probably isn't paying attention.
I'm not going to cast aspersions that fans are misogynistic chuds because that's obviously not true, but I definitely think the nerds are being OCD and overly sensitive to these retcons. I don't blame them for being overly sensitive given the past mistreatment, but you're still being overly sensitive and giving your opponents ammunition to use against you.
While I think GW's PR here is terrible, I don't see any compelling reason to maintain that Custodes and Astartes all had pickles before they were recruited.
The reason why Sisters of Battle are female has to do with social and legal reasons in the background, which were deliberately written so as to have an all-female army. The Ecclesiarchy is legally barred from having men at arms, but the loophole is that they can still employ women at arms.
The reason why Custodes and Astartes were historically male is because we just assumed they were because their miniatures lacked boobs due to disinterest in making models with boobs, then later on various writers contrived lore reasons for them to be male. Their appearance could just as easily have been explained as the procedures masculinizing female recruits, or just not called out (e.g. the Little Sisters of Purification used regular models despite being female).
There's no female guard models, but I don't see people arguing that there's no female guard. There's copious examples in the lore, just not on the table. Why are Custodes and Astartes being treated differently?
GW is guilty of tons of awful stuff, like suing innocent housewives (google "Spots the Space Marine"), but instead fans fixate on irrelevant trivia like this.
If you're genuinely upset about this stuff, then make your own games. I already hate GW so I'd patronize you for that reason alone. We need more alternatives to their monopoly.
So you're telling us that NERDS wouldn't have bought big tiddies space babes?
No, it's not an "assumption" needed, it's right there in black and white in the lore, hence why you yourself call it a retcon.
But I guess the SoB & SoS were never produced, because there's no interest in buying ergo no interest in producing female models.
But you got one thing almost right:
People SHOULD stop giving ANY money to GW, buy Grimdark Future from OnePageRules and play it using the models you already own or buy the STLs from them and 3d print the models you want.
Because by playing WH40K you are giving them time, attention, publicity and market position.
So quit playing it, play other things.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 02:51:36 PMQuote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMI don't see the point, and I think it's funny how the usual characters are playing it off as no big deal, while also celebrating it like it's some victory. If it's not a big deal, why bother to change the lore that way anyway?
If it's not a big deal, then why does it matter if it gets changed?
Custodes are engineered supersoldiers. I don't think it matters what they had between their legs before they were modified.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMIt's also the way they made the change: a crappy reply Tweet that just asserts they've always been there even though theres no lore suggesting that.
GW has done this on numerous occasions. It's called retconning.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 18, 2024, 01:30:22 PMIt's the same thing as when they gave the Emperor a female assistant to aid in the creation of Space Marines. It was an unnecessary change that undermined the lore rather than improve it.
They gave the Emperor two female assistants: Amar Astarte and Erda. They were introduced in two separate works by two separate authors who didn't seem to know about the other's work, so they're both credited with creating the primarchs and scattering them. I find it odd that no editor caught this, but GW probably isn't paying attention.
I'm not going to cast aspersions that fans are misogynistic chuds because that's obviously not true, but I definitely think the nerds are being OCD and overly sensitive to these retcons. I don't blame them for being overly sensitive given the past mistreatment, but you're still being overly sensitive and giving your opponents ammunition to use against you.
While I think GW's PR here is terrible, I don't see any compelling reason to maintain that Custodes and Astartes all had pickles before they were recruited.
The reason why Sisters of Battle are female has to do with social and legal reasons in the background, which were deliberately written so as to have an all-female army. The Ecclesiarchy is legally barred from having men at arms, but the loophole is that they can still employ women at arms.
The reason why Custodes and Astartes were historically male is because we just assumed they were because their miniatures lacked boobs due to disinterest in making models with boobs, then later on various writers contrived lore reasons for them to be male. Their appearance could just as easily have been explained as the procedures masculinizing female recruits, or just not called out (e.g. the Little Sisters of Purification used regular models despite being female).
There's no female guard models, but I don't see people arguing that there's no female guard. There's copious examples in the lore, just not on the table. Why are Custodes and Astartes being treated differently?
GW is guilty of tons of awful stuff, like suing innocent housewives (google "Spots the Space Marine"), but instead fans fixate on irrelevant trivia like this.
If you're genuinely upset about this stuff, then make your own games. I already hate GW so I'd patronize you for that reason alone. We need more alternatives to their monopoly.
Wait, aren't you the guy who whines in every Vampire-adjacent thread about all the terrible things that White Wolf did to the lore and game? But female Space Marines are no big deal and fans should get over it? Perhaps you should step back and reevaluate...
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 02:51:36 PMWhile I think GW's PR here is terrible, I don't see any compelling reason to maintain that Custodes and Astartes all had pickles before they were recruited.
Because that's the lore. They've been described as 'sons' and 'brotherhood'. They've been explicitly called all-male. Can some be female? Sure. And some can be Orks or Eldar. Or Tyrannids. It's just lore, why not ret-con it all?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 02:51:36 PMThe reason why Sisters of Battle are female has to do with social and legal reasons in the background, which were deliberately written so as to have an all-female army. The Ecclesiarchy is legally barred from having men at arms, but the loophole is that they can still employ women at arms.
But why should that lore stand? Why not ret-con it too, and have male 'Sisters' of Battle? For that matter, why not get rid of all that nasty 'war' stuff, and make the games about male Sisters of Battle meeting up with Orks in coffee shops to discuss toppling the patriarchy? It's just lore, they can ret-con that too.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 01:27:50 PMQuote from: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2024, 11:26:21 AMOne Page Rules will give a gamer a "living game" that's got rules updates and they can use lore from older editions of 40k, since many of the factions in Grimdark Future are famous IP's with just enough differences to make them identifiable but not infringing on copyright.
IE One Page Rules is a way to play with your old figures and old rulebooks with a current system that means you can go to the local game store and everyone is on the... same page... ruleswise.
And most importantly, not give GW any more money.
What exactly are you supposed to do if you're interested in non-miniatures media like rpgs, video games, books, etc?
Like Star Wars or Trek or Dr Who, ignore the new stuff if it's bad.
Quote from: Krazz on April 18, 2024, 05:50:43 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 02:51:36 PMWhile I think GW's PR here is terrible, I don't see any compelling reason to maintain that Custodes and Astartes all had pickles before they were recruited.
Because that's the lore. They've been described as 'sons' and 'brotherhood'. They've been explicitly called all-male. Can some be female? Sure. And some can be Orks or Eldar. Or Tyrannids. It's just lore, why not ret-con it all?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 02:51:36 PMThe reason why Sisters of Battle are female has to do with social and legal reasons in the background, which were deliberately written so as to have an all-female army. The Ecclesiarchy is legally barred from having men at arms, but the loophole is that they can still employ women at arms.
But why should that lore stand? Why not ret-con it too, and have male 'Sisters' of Battle? For that matter, why not get rid of all that nasty 'war' stuff, and make the games about male Sisters of Battle meeting up with Orks in coffee shops to discuss toppling the patriarchy? It's just lore, they can ret-con that too.
Exactly. There comes a time when you've retconned out the reason for the IPs popularity. And that's killing the golden goose to chase imaginary new customers who may or may not exist.
It doesn't help that many changes to IP nowadays are driven by political activism and not love of the settings or material. That's a recipe for preachy, not-fun fiction.
I'm sick to death of 40k and all these other rotting dinosaur franchises strangling creativity. Make new IPs, please. I just want entertainment.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2024, 02:51:36 PMThere's no female guard models, but I don't see people arguing that there's no female guard. There's copious examples in the lore, just not on the table. Why are Custodes and Astartes being treated differently?
Except there are female guard models now, albeit only for the last few years.
Eldar have had female guardians since the start. It was nice piece of character for the army.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 18, 2024, 04:19:02 PMWait, aren't you the guy who whines in every Vampire-adjacent thread about all the terrible things that White Wolf did to the lore and game?
Not in the way you think. I hate their IP (read Frank Trollman's critiques on thegamingden to see why) and I'm sick of their monopoly over urban fantasy. I'm glad they're bulldozing their lore and alienating their fans.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2024, 06:16:32 PMThere comes a time when you've retconned out the reason for the IPs popularity. And that's killing the golden goose to chase imaginary new customers who may or may not exist.
It doesn't help that many changes to IP nowadays are driven by political activism and not love of the settings or material. That's a recipe for preachy, not-fun fiction.
I hope companies keep doing this. I got sick of their IP monopolies long before the ESG activism reared its head. I want them to crash and burn so that new creations can flourish.
We're in this frustrating space where companies kill promising IPs or drive them into the ground, and unless copyright terms get reduced our only option is to make new IPs and hope the process doesn't repeat.
Greetings!
Yes, it is sad that Games Workshop is bending the knee and gulping down Woke bullshit. The Custodes were originally ALL MALE. Just like the Space Marines. It is bullshit that Games Workshop is lying to the fans, and retconning the lore.
Having said that, I always urge Warhammer 40K fans to abandon Games Workshop entirely. Don't give them money or patronize them in any way. I used to be a devoted fan and customer, playing Epic Warhammer 40K Space Marine. I invested thousands of dollars into this fucking company. That was over 20 years ago, when Games Workshop pulled the plug one day and just ended Epic Space Marine. I have never looked back since, and abandoned patronizing Games Workshop in any way. They are a terribly greedy, selfish, disrespectful company, and now they are also Woke, and retarded.
So, let them burn. Stop patronizing Games Workshop. Stop patronizing companies that hate you.
Instead, give your money to companies that respect you, respect the hobby, and don't hate you. There are many miniature and game companies out there that respect the hobby, respect their customers, and don't hate you.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
"There's always been Female Custodes" & "We've always been at war with Eastasia" & "There is no war in Ba Sing Se"
2nd
Last
There were two or three females in the original Imperial Army range. There was also a single female Catachan Jungle Fighter with a grenade launcher, and a female commissar.
Though, you know, "there have always been female space marines" sounds like a great silly Slaneshi plot for an rpg session.
If you want classic guard, you just need to make shoulder pads out of Bic pen barrel and use the Wargames Atlantic cannon fodder. They have a set of men and a set of women so you can have it your way. For that matter Wargames Atlantic have all sorts of good Imperial Guard proxies and reworked versions of the Dream Forge powered armour figures that would work for Space Marine proxies. They also have giant spiders with rayguns and sunglasses.
Here we go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1c8d6i8/a_womans_perspective_on_female_custodes/
The hobby isn't a "safe space" for women because one woman on reddit feels unsafe over a bunch of nerds arguing over lore.
Hon, if nerds arguing over gaming lore makes you feel unsafe, maybe the hobby isn't for you.
I'm just so very pleased that a really small minority of people will now feel like they can play the bodyguards to the Emperor of the galaxy spanning space fascist empire, because some of those bodyguards don't have a dick.
Just treat it all like the Imperium propaganda it is.
Marines out!
I already hated Games Workshop before for their business practices! This is only further proof to make BattleSpear50k with your 3d printer already.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 20, 2024, 12:19:14 AMHere we go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1c8d6i8/a_womans_perspective_on_female_custodes/
The hobby isn't a "safe space" for women because one woman on reddit feels unsafe over a bunch of nerds arguing over lore.
Hon, if nerds arguing over gaming lore makes you feel unsafe, maybe the hobby isn't for you.
I'd argue that arguing over lore is itself a part of the hobby. Ever get two Marvel nerds together? I thought I was bad with D&D and 40k, yeesh xD
Any ideas for replacement IPs? I have a few ideas for a number of different settings.
One idea I had was a setting full of countless worlds connected by stargates, a network uncreatively called "Yggdrasil", allowing for wildly diverse armies to come into conflict without worrying about whether the political geography made sense for it. This provides more freedom in design compared to a single "Old World", while still allowing at least one such "Old World" to exist in the same timeframe.
Another involved an interstellar war between two blocs: the Confederacy, who are space cowboys, and the Union, who are space soviets. Their war is complicated by encounters with expansionist alien civilizations like the Swarmers (space bugs driven to consume all bio-matter) and the Crusaders (theocratic multi-species empire).
A third involves a galactic war between multiple human civilizations, with at least twelve options presented, such as Texas, Genosha, Westworld, Microsoft, and the USSR. There's aliens in the background, but it's a human-dominated galaxy.
The sky's the limit.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2024, 12:09:05 PMAny ideas for replacement IPs? I have a few ideas for a number of different settings.
One idea I had was a setting full of countless worlds connected by stargates, a network uncreatively called "Yggdrasil", allowing for wildly diverse armies to come into conflict without worrying about whether the political geography made sense for it. This provides more freedom in design compared to a single "Old World", while still allowing at least one such "Old World" to exist in the same timeframe.
Another involved an interstellar war between two blocs: the Confederacy, who are space cowboys, and the Union, who are space soviets. Their war is complicated by encounters with expansionist alien civilizations like the Swarmers (space bugs driven to consume all bio-matter) and the Crusaders (theocratic multi-species empire).
A third involves a galactic war between multiple human civilizations, with at least twelve options presented, such as Texas, Genosha, Westworld, Microsoft, and the USSR. There's aliens in the background, but it's a human-dominated galaxy.
The sky's the limit.
Here's an idea:
Make the setting (whichever you like best) but make it system neutral, just put enough notes for whoever wants to use it to be able to adapt it to whatever system they like best.
Or make the setting and then work with someone to adapt it to a system.
Here's an idea for the name of a generic system: Open Space Wars.
Edited to add:Now riddle me this, how are you going to prevent the same bores (or the satanic panic ones) from spoiling your creation without copyright?
The woke haven't managed to wreck the Cthulhu mythos because nobody owns it. You can just make your own product and sell it without any fear of lawsuits.
It's really just the same bores just a new generation and a new religion with a new devil. I suspect they've found jetisoning Christianity increased their credibility. Good riddence too.
I've written a couple different attempts at an alternate, low tech future but I've found people mostly prefer to have the serial numbers filed off and stay with the original setting. For some reason it really resonates with people.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2024, 07:48:28 PMThe woke haven't managed to wreck the Cthulhu mythos because nobody owns it. You can just make your own product and sell it without any fear of lawsuits.
Except you can't, the state has some rights around which you must work or else buy the rights from them.
Open Cthulhu went down for that exact reason.
There's a White Box FMAG based game that dances around to avoid ANY copyright/trademark.
Why is it that you CAN'T write a novel and use Conan, Tarzan, Carson of Venus, John Carter, etc in the title? Trademark.
You CAN use the characters inside without ANY problem because Public Domain.
Which is MY point, putting your setting in the public domain allows ANYONE to use it in whatever way they so choose, and if they have more money/influence than you outsell you thus supplanting your work from the public conscience.
So they could take your stuff and turn it into the most putrid wokefest imaginable and there's nothing you can do.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 20, 2024, 08:57:41 PMIt's really just the same bores just a new generation and a new religion with a new devil. I suspect they've found jetisoning Christianity increased their credibility. Good riddence too.
I've written a couple different attempts at an alternate, low tech future but I've found people mostly prefer to have the serial numbers filed off and stay with the original setting. For some reason it really resonates with people.
It's the same type of mentality/personality, I agree, but they aren't the same bores.
One Page Rules and 3D resin printers.
Or, in my case, I went back and started playing BattleTech again. Or Alpha Strike to be fair. And because I have a 6 year old I had to do a crash course on how to run aerospace fighters because he likes having Phoenix Hawk LAMs in his army.
Our other games I mention are free downloadable rules made by amateur writers, but they're fine. I've even started making 3D models of spaceships so we can play a starship combat game called Starmageddon. Or I may repurpose pre-dreadnought era rules to run a gain of spaceship game.
The big one is the 3D resin printers you can buy these days. I have a Mars-3 from Elegoo, and it works fine. It is much easier than the old filament printer I used to have.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 21, 2024, 01:23:34 AMOne Page Rules and 3D resin printers.
Or, in my case, I went back and started playing BattleTech again. Or Alpha Strike to be fair. And because I have a 6 year old I had to do a crash course on how to run aerospace fighters because he likes having Phoenix Hawk LAMs in his army.
Our other games I mention are free downloadable rules made by amateur writers, but they're fine. I've even started making 3D models of spaceships so we can play a starship combat game called Starmageddon. Or I may repurpose pre-dreadnought era rules to run a gain of spaceship game.
The big one is the 3D resin printers you can buy these days. I have a Mars-3 from Elegoo, and it works fine. It is much easier than the old filament printer I used to have.
BattleTech has ALSO gone woke BattleTech Goes Woke (https://www.geeknative.com/158524/woke-wins-battletech-fan-civil-war-was-brief-and-glorious/)
Greetings!
Here is an excellent commentary by YouTuber Ptolomy.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 21, 2024, 02:05:26 AMBattleTech has ALSO gone woke BattleTech Goes Woke (https://www.geeknative.com/158524/woke-wins-battletech-fan-civil-war-was-brief-and-glorious/)
Oh, I'm well aware. I did mention my 3D printer, and it doesn't phase me to print out my own minatures like 80 ton Awesomes or 50 ton Centurions, or my OWN version of what a Marauder is (because the top AC-5 autocannon has to be on the RH side of the mech per the stats, not the centerline - O.C.D. trigger alert).
It still bothers me that they removed the Rommel tank because there is something wrong about Erwin Rommel from history I guess. Idiots.
Anyways, here is the actual reason I am posting. Alternatives to Games Workshop, or Catalyst Games.
-----------------------------------------------------------
There is ANOTHER miniature wargame I bought recently. It is called C.O.R.E. Mech Warfare. Don't let the generic AI generated art from the game fool you. The ACTUAL units for this game are Gundams. 144 scale plastic miniature kits from Japan, often called Gunpla (short for Gundam Plastic Model Kit).
The game even has free Demo Rules you can download and look at how the game plays. I have the full rulebook so I can tell you that the Demo Rules are just the regular rules with the Mech builder chapter removed. The Demo rules are the exact same pages you see in the full game.
C.O.R.E. free rulebook you can download (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/432206/CORE--Mech-Warfare--Demo-Version?term=c.o.r.e.)
Gundam model kits are only about $15 or $20 which are the misleadingly named "high grade" kits. HG kits are the low end of the Gunpla complexity and cost.
Gundam USA online store (https://www.usagundamstore.com/)
Painting a Gunpla is almost non-existing. The plastic model kits have ALL been designed to snap together without glue and paint since the mid-1990's. I have a bunch of Gundam models on my shelf of toys. They are easy to put together. The only tool I needed was some wire cutters to snip the parts off of the plastic sprues and snap together. The joint parts aren't even plastic, but use a hard rubber sprue of round bits with holes thru them called Polycaps. This means you can move and pose the robot and because the joints are rubber it won't wear out.
I think this is another good option for tabletop gaming.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 21, 2024, 01:23:34 AMOne Page Rules and 3D resin printers.
Or, in my case, I went back and started playing BattleTech again. Or Alpha Strike to be fair. And because I have a 6 year old I had to do a crash course on how to run aerospace fighters because he likes having Phoenix Hawk LAMs in his army.
Our other games I mention are free downloadable rules made by amateur writers, but they're fine. I've even started making 3D models of spaceships so we can play a starship combat game called Starmageddon. Or I may repurpose pre-dreadnought era rules to run a gain of spaceship game.
The big one is the 3D resin printers you can buy these days. I have a Mars-3 from Elegoo, and it works fine. It is much easier than the old filament printer I used to have.
Planet 28 is pretty good, albeit a bit basic.
How is One Page Rules? That seems to be the thing everybody mentions whenever breaking away from 40k is brought up.
As for BattleTech, that was a great game to get into. Got the starter set, rulebook, and snagged a bunch of mechs off Ebay and Etsy. It quickly became one of my favorite games.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 21, 2024, 12:33:47 AMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2024, 07:48:28 PMThe woke haven't managed to wreck the Cthulhu mythos because nobody owns it. You can just make your own product and sell it without any fear of lawsuits.
Except you can't, the state has some rights around which you must work or else buy the rights from them.
Open Cthulhu went down for that exact reason.
There's a White Box FMAG based game that dances around to avoid ANY copyright/trademark.
Why is it that you CAN'T write a novel and use Conan, Tarzan, Carson of Venus, John Carter, etc in the title? Trademark.
You CAN use the characters inside without ANY problem because Public Domain.
Which is MY point, putting your setting in the public domain allows ANYONE to use it in whatever way they so choose, and if they have more money/influence than you outsell you thus supplanting your work from the public conscience.
So they could take your stuff and turn it into the most putrid wokefest imaginable and there's nothing you can do.
How often does that scenario you describe actually happen and without going broke?
The Burroughs Estate isn't monetizing their trademarks nearly as much as they could or taking them in a woke direction.
Also, Open Cthulhu is still around: https://cthulhueternal.com/open-mythos/
Quote from: David Johansen on April 20, 2024, 08:57:41 PMIt's really just the same bores just a new generation and a new religion with a new devil. I suspect they've found jetisoning Christianity increased their credibility. Good riddence too.
I've written a couple different attempts at an alternate, low tech future but I've found people mostly prefer to have the serial numbers filed off and stay with the original setting. For some reason it really resonates with people.
yeah, One Page Rules, right?
I think that attitude is really stupid. Modern pop culture is a soulless wasteland because people have been uncreative zombies who congregates around a handful of monopolistic rotting dinosaur IPs that strangle creativity and kill off all competition. Every IP either gets canceled or undergoes decay into something unrecognizable as what you liked in the first place.
We need more IPs, not less!
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 21, 2024, 09:52:25 AMQuote from: weirdguy564 on April 21, 2024, 01:23:34 AMOne Page Rules and 3D resin printers.
Or, in my case, I went back and started playing BattleTech again. Or Alpha Strike to be fair. And because I have a 6 year old I had to do a crash course on how to run aerospace fighters because he likes having Phoenix Hawk LAMs in his army.
Our other games I mention are free downloadable rules made by amateur writers, but they're fine. I've even started making 3D models of spaceships so we can play a starship combat game called Starmageddon. Or I may repurpose pre-dreadnought era rules to run a gain of spaceship game.
The big one is the 3D resin printers you can buy these days. I have a Mars-3 from Elegoo, and it works fine. It is much easier than the old filament printer I used to have.
Planet 28 is pretty good, albeit a bit basic.
How is One Page Rules? That seems to be the thing everybody mentions whenever breaking away from 40k is brought up.
As for BattleTech, that was a great game to get into. Got the starter set, rulebook, and snagged a bunch of mechs off Ebay and Etsy. It quickly became one of my favorite games.
Why not find out for yourself for FREE? You get the core rules (Two, 2 page files) and the beginners guide (16 pages books) for the skirmish and the normal game plus TWO armies (not the cool ones mind you) both in stl and in paper and tokens for vtt.
FREE Grimdark Future Starter Set FREE (https://www.onepagerules.com/get-started)
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 21, 2024, 07:42:08 AMQuote from: GeekyBugle on April 21, 2024, 02:05:26 AMBattleTech has ALSO gone woke BattleTech Goes Woke (https://www.geeknative.com/158524/woke-wins-battletech-fan-civil-war-was-brief-and-glorious/)
Oh, I'm well aware. I did mention my 3D printer, and it doesn't phase me to print out my own minatures like 80 ton Awesomes or 50 ton Centurions, or my OWN version of what a Marauder is (because the top AC-5 autocannon has to be on the RH side of the mech per the stats, not the centerline - O.C.D. trigger alert).
It still bothers me that they removed the Rommel tank because there is something wrong about Erwin Rommel from history I guess. Idiots.
Anyways, here is the actual reason I am posting. Alternatives to Games Workshop, or Catalyst Games.
-----------------------------------------------------------
There is ANOTHER miniature wargame I bought recently. It is called C.O.R.E. Mech Warfare. Don't let the generic AI generated art from the game fool you. The ACTUAL units this game is meant to stat out are Gundams. 144 scale plastic miniature kits from Japan, often called Gunpla (short for Gundam Plastic Model Kit).
The game even has a free Demo Rules you can download and look at how the game plays. I have the full rulebook and I can tell you that the Demo Rules are just the regular rules with the Mech builder chapter removed. The combat rules are those exact pages you see.
C.O.R.E. free rulebook you can download (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/432206/CORE--Mech-Warfare--Demo-Version?term=c.o.r.e.)
Gundam model kits are only about $15 or $20 for your lower detailed kits (the miss-named "high grade" kits which are the low end of the model kit complexity and cost.
Gundam USA online store (https://www.usagundamstore.com/)
Painting a Gunpla is almost non-existing. The plastic model kits have ALL be designed to snap together without glue and paint since the mid-1990's. I have a bunch of Gundam models on my shelf of toys, and they're easy to put together, and the only tool I needed was some wire cutters to snip the parts off of the plastic sprues and snap together. The joint parts aren't even plastic, but use a hard rubber sprue of round bits with holes thru them called Polycaps. This means you can move and pose the robot and because the joints are rubber it won't wear out.
I think this is another good option for tabletop gaming.
That's the BEST reason to post, instead of just bitching and moaning (which can be fun), complain then provide alternatives.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 21, 2024, 12:16:39 PMQuote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 21, 2024, 09:52:25 AMQuote from: weirdguy564 on April 21, 2024, 01:23:34 AMOne Page Rules and 3D resin printers.
Or, in my case, I went back and started playing BattleTech again. Or Alpha Strike to be fair. And because I have a 6 year old I had to do a crash course on how to run aerospace fighters because he likes having Phoenix Hawk LAMs in his army.
Our other games I mention are free downloadable rules made by amateur writers, but they're fine. I've even started making 3D models of spaceships so we can play a starship combat game called Starmageddon. Or I may repurpose pre-dreadnought era rules to run a gain of spaceship game.
The big one is the 3D resin printers you can buy these days. I have a Mars-3 from Elegoo, and it works fine. It is much easier than the old filament printer I used to have.
Planet 28 is pretty good, albeit a bit basic.
How is One Page Rules? That seems to be the thing everybody mentions whenever breaking away from 40k is brought up.
As for BattleTech, that was a great game to get into. Got the starter set, rulebook, and snagged a bunch of mechs off Ebay and Etsy. It quickly became one of my favorite games.
Why not find out for yourself for FREE? You get the core rules (Two, 2 page files) and the beginners guide (16 pages books) for the skirmish and the normal game plus TWO armies (not the cool ones mind you) both in stl and in paper and tokens for vtt.
FREE Grimdark Future Starter Set FREE (https://www.onepagerules.com/get-started)
XD I like the sales pitch. Sure I'll give it a shot later today.
I was wondering how you could make Battle Tech woke. You've already got female mech warriors and the mech aren't gendered. But yup, removing the Rommel tank from the distant future is appaerntly political.
So any new universes to invest? I haven't been able to find any to my tastes so I've been working on my own. I need decent concept art tho because that seems to get more attention than just prose writing or lore dumps
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 21, 2024, 03:59:41 PMSo any new universes to invest? I haven't been able to find any to my tastes so I've been working on my own. I need decent concept art tho because that seems to get more attention than just prose writing or lore dumps
Unless you have about 100 US for each art piece I recommend "A.I." "Art".
We need 2 things:
An Open Source/CC By/Public Domain ruleset (meaning the very expression of the rules)
Equally open settings.
There are alternatives out there but it just ammounts to the proliferation of standards as everyone wants to do their own thing. Getting people to sign on generally takes a popular enough setting or ruleset. Over in the rpg world you've got the OGL and the Cephus engine but not much for open settings.
On that end it'd be better if people didn't try to copy the big names too. I can appreciate OnePageRules' attempt to give 40k a newer, easier ruleset. I think it's smart since they can rely on the popularity of the 40k lore. Otherwise people are just gonna say, "I already like 40k I don't need a setting clone."
Wargames Vault has a huge selection of indie-level wargames if that interests anyone. Plenty of neat rules and settings waiting to be played on there.
Most of my settings are pastiches of TSR's discarded settings like Bug Hunters, Dark•Matter and Star*Drive. None of the big settings are even remotely as interesting imo.
E.g.:
Bug Hunters: you play as replicants deployed by the colonial authorities to fumigate giant killer bugs and killer robots leftover from an ancient war.
Conspiracy Thriller: you play as investigators employed by the government or an NGO to investigate aliens, cryptids, and conspiracies a la The X-Files. Something something dark matter is the meta-origin of paranormal activity.
Space Opera: you play as a national of one of thirteen stellar nations leftover from a galactic war. The galaxy is human dominated, with aliens as client states rather than independent nations like in typical scifi. Roswell Grays that serve Cthulhu are invading the frontier btw.
Mech Crusade: Basically The Expanse, but with mechs. Or Jovian Chronicles, I guess
I can go on for a while.
But honestly I'm just sick of lazy 40k ripoffs
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 21, 2024, 05:49:49 PMOn that end it'd be better if people didn't try to copy the big names too. I can appreciate OnePageRules' attempt to give 40k a newer, easier ruleset. I think it's smart since they can rely on the popularity of the 40k lore. Otherwise people are just gonna say, "I already like 40k I don't need a setting clone."
I haven't done a huge dive into Grimdark Future lore, but I suspect that OPR is mostly expecting people to just play OPR 40k with their existing miniatures and they can just ignore the current GW terribleness.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 21, 2024, 09:38:44 PMQuote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 21, 2024, 05:49:49 PMOn that end it'd be better if people didn't try to copy the big names too. I can appreciate OnePageRules' attempt to give 40k a newer, easier ruleset. I think it's smart since they can rely on the popularity of the 40k lore. Otherwise people are just gonna say, "I already like 40k I don't need a setting clone."
I haven't done a huge dive into Grimdark Future lore, but I suspect that OPR is mostly expecting people to just play OPR 40k with their existing miniatures and they can just ignore the current GW terribleness.
There's not much of it and what exists is an excuse to explain why everyone can fight or ally with everyone else.
For example, the Alien Hives (tyranids) and Robots (necrons) are explained as developing individuality just like humans.
I feel this makes for a very bland and boring setting because it reduces the armies to shallow aesthetics. It's like having a setting based on the Cold War, but both sides have identical values so there's no logical reason for them to be opposed.
It's very strange
Personally the Necrons were better as souless husks but I will admit the Tesseract Vault is an impressive model.
I wonder, sometimes, why 40k resonates so deeply for so many. There was a lot of fantastic art. Art that was visceral and disturbing. It's much smoother and cleaner now. But still quite evokative.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 22, 2024, 10:00:07 AMPersonally the Necrons were better as souless husks but I will admit the Tesseract Vault is an impressive model.
I wonder, sometimes, why 40k resonates so deeply for so many. There was a lot of fantastic art. Art that was visceral and disturbing. It's much smoother and cleaner now. But still quite evokative.
I think it's less that the setting resonates with people and more due to a combination of lack of options and the network effect. It's easy to say that it resonates deeply with a lot of people when there is no point of comparison with anything else.
It's like saying the MCU resonates deeply with a lot of people since you have no other cinematic universe to compare with, since all of the others that tried self-destructed.
Truth is, people are shallow, ignorant and latch on to what is currently popular. Media literacy is in the toilet. Nerd fandoms are consumed by ancient rotting monopolies.
But, inevitably, corpos cannot stay relevant forever. Times change. IPs are bought up by executives who have no idea what made them interesting in the first place and end up either killing them prematurely or rendering them unrecognizable.
Hopefully this controversy will convince more people to make new IPs and break the chains of the creative monopolies. We need more creators like Eric July.
I get what you're saying, but I think there are a considerable number of people that enjoy 40k because they genuinely enjoy it. When I first found out about it I thought it was cool how different it was to a lot of the other sci-fi worlds at the time. I grew up on Star Trek and Star Wars and 40k was so radically different. The lore was fairly deep too, and I just enjoyed it for what it was.
I think it's unfair to say that it's only popular because there's no other options. Today that might be true, but it wasn't always. However, I won't ignore that there are plenty of people who think of wargaming and the only thing they think of is Warhammer 40k. Same goes for D&D: I love D&D, but I know it's not the only RPG out there.
Agree that we need more creatives though. I don't wanna see 40k go away, but I would like to see some more competition.
40k is popular for some of the same reasons as D&D 5e:
- it's promoted by a corporation with resources. You can get the stuff in a lot of retail outlets.
-it has a critical mass of players. I can get a game of either really easily.
- it has multimedia/merchandising as well.
I have tried OPR but it's too bland for me. The current 40k rules aren't a game I enjoy either.
I can enjoy the setting by taking the bits I like and discarding the stuff I don't. Working on some house rules so that I actually enjoy putting my toys on the table.
Exactly. I don't think competition can exist until these monopolistic companies go out of business.
In terms of alternates over the years we've had Mutant Chronicles Warzone, Vor, Void, Kryomek, Dark Age, Warmachine depending on how you want to look at it, Malifeux, Infinity, Warpath/Deadzone and probably half a dozen others I can't recall / didn't buy. They've all got their weaknesses. Then there's all the knockoff companies like Empress, Scibor, Puppet's War, and so many others.
Of those, Warpath / Deadzone is probably the best supported at this point and Mantic's been really on and off again on that. And Mantic's art and aesthetic don't seem to resonate for people.
There was also Rackham producing AT-43 and Confrontation. Their IP rights seem to change every few years and nothing substantial gets done. Many of these companies have gone out of business and their IPs are trapped in limbo due to the Berne Convention's idiotic copyright laws.
As I've said, don't copyright your IPs. You're signing a death warrant. If you want your IP to survive and not be ruined by corporate, release it into the public domain. You can still trademark it and derivative works aren't automatically in the public domain, so it's still attractive to publishers if you ever need funding. For comparison, Dracula is in public domain and still gets adapted all the time.
I'm sure this is only a coincidence...
QuoteSo you're telling us that NERDS wouldn't have bought big tiddies space babes?
We are not talking about big tiddy space babes, but about titties devoured by powerful pecks DRR "female" athletic team :P
QuoteNow riddle me this, how are you going to prevent the same bores (or the satanic panic ones) from spoiling your creation without copyright?
Why would I care? Like people can see easily - faking autorship is still illegal - whether it's mine or not, and if puritans or wokesters want their versions of my setting, then like whatever. Even with copyright they can really spoil whatever they want in vastness of fanfiction, and just because they can legally use world and terms does not make their creation in any way official.
Just like all expanded Cthulhu Mythos is not Lovecraft.
QuoteWhich is MY point, putting your setting in the public domain allows ANYONE to use it in whatever way they so choose, and if they have more money/influence than you outsell you thus supplanting your work from the public conscience.
I find it really doubtful unless your setting was bland vanillia shit to begin with.
QuoteAs I've said, don't copyright your IPs. You're signing a death warrant. If you want your IP to survive and not be ruined by corporate, release it into the public domain. You can still trademark it and derivative works aren't automatically in the public domain, so it's still attractive to publishers if you ever need funding. For comparison, Dracula is in public domain and still gets adapted all the time.
Or maybe copyright it for few years to control birthing spasms of fandom if there will be one?
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on April 21, 2024, 09:52:25 AMPlanet 28 is pretty good, albeit a bit basic.
How is One Page Rules? That seems to be the thing everybody mentions whenever breaking away from 40k is brought up.
As for BattleTech, that was a great game to get into. Got the starter set, rulebook, and snagged a bunch of mechs off Ebay and Etsy. It quickly became one of my favorite games.
1. One Page Rules are FREE. Just download and play.
2. One Page Rules are simple. You can remember the rules pretty easy.
3. The game is model agnostic. Use what you have, even paper standup drawn by hand or plastic army men.
4. The game is very much made with 3D printers in mind. Go for it. I'm designing my own Robot Legion models.
5. The game turn sequence alternates back and forth between both players. You won't need to sit and watch your opponent move and fight with their entire army for an entire turn.
We also need new lores too. OPR doesn't have a lot.
I'd like to see more diverse human civilizations too. TSR's old Star*Drive setting has interesting ideas, like cyberpunk commies and niezchean space romans.
Here's a setting and rpg I did a couple years ago:
http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/brffmt.pdf
Here's one that's really just the existing setting with the serial numbers filed off:
http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/brffmt.pdf
I have had to quit every 40k group I am in on Facebook. Discussion has been entirely consumed by people talking about female Custodes and another push by the woke types for female Space Marines. That's the actual end goal here. Custodes aren't prominent enough. They weren't even an army you could play until 2018. They want to make GW and the fandom accept female Space Marines when all of the existing lore says they can't exist. They don't actually care about female Space Marines or anything else in 40k. They care about making people comply.
I personally find Custodes leaving Terra to fight battles across the glaxy far more bothersome to the established setting than the idea of there being females among them.
Quote from: yosemitemike on April 28, 2024, 01:07:32 AMI have had to quit every 40k group I am in on Facebook. Discussion has been entirely consumed by people talking about female Custodes and another push by the woke types for female Space Marines. That's the actual end goal here. Custodes aren't prominent enough. They weren't even an army you could play until 2018. They want to make GW and the fandom accept female Space Marines when all of the existing lore says they can't exist. They don't actually care about female Space Marines or anything else in 40k. They care about making people comply.
Of course. The rubes belive it's about diversity and inclusion and making women feel "welcome", while the activists want to twist 40k so it fits their agenda to chog the thing up with horrible girlboss characters who fight the patriarchy. And fuck the people, men and women who actually like 40k for what it is.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2024, 01:48:07 PMWe also need new lores too. OPR doesn't have a lot.
That's starting to change. OPR released their first book of background fluff earlier this month.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/476960/grimdark-future-world-book
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 29, 2024, 04:16:51 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2024, 01:48:07 PMWe also need new lores too. OPR doesn't have a lot.
That's starting to change. OPR released their first book of background fluff earlier this month.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/476960/grimdark-future-world-book
$15 for a 64-page pdf is a bit pricey.
Quote from: HappyDaze on April 29, 2024, 05:07:46 PMQuote from: hedgehobbit on April 29, 2024, 04:16:51 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2024, 01:48:07 PMWe also need new lores too. OPR doesn't have a lot.
That's starting to change. OPR released their first book of background fluff earlier this month.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/476960/grimdark-future-world-book
$15 for a 64-page pdf is a bit pricey.
Yes, it is Free Preview (https://oprgames.app.box.com/s/yoen0nlg8m212nv7sz1u7gomu7yvzbuz)
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 30, 2024, 02:03:28 AMQuote from: HappyDaze on April 29, 2024, 05:07:46 PMQuote from: hedgehobbit on April 29, 2024, 04:16:51 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2024, 01:48:07 PMWe also need new lores too. OPR doesn't have a lot.
That's starting to change. OPR released their first book of background fluff earlier this month.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/476960/grimdark-future-world-book
$15 for a 64-page pdf is a bit pricey.
Yes, it is Free Preview (https://oprgames.app.box.com/s/yoen0nlg8m212nv7sz1u7gomu7yvzbuz)
Thank you.
It's more or less a rehash of 40k. What about other settings? Something more like Starship Troopers, Halo or Starcraft? Except not stupid or "satire".
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2024, 05:22:01 PMIt's more or less a rehash of 40k. What about other settings? Something more like Starship Troopers, Halo or Starcraft? Except not stupid or "satire".
Thought you wanted totally original settings?
Anything that's "more like Starship Troopers, Halo or Starcraft" can't be original, by definition.
What happened this Monday?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 30, 2024, 09:53:28 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2024, 05:22:01 PMIt's more or less a rehash of 40k. What about other settings? Something more like Starship Troopers, Halo or Starcraft? Except not stupid or "satire".
Thought you wanted totally original settings?
Anything that's "more like Starship Troopers, Halo or Starcraft" can't be original, by definition.
I like having a plethora of settings and I like them not being owned by stupid corpos that drive them into the ground and kill them.
Starship Troopers is crap because Verhoven turned it into bad "satire" and Sony ran with that stupid shit. Now the brand name is garbage. The Mongoose ttrpg was nice, but they lost the license and now even the PDFs aren't available on drivethru.
Halo is... well, it's been mismanaged into crap.
Starcraft... same. The premise was interesting, even if it was derivative, but then the idiots in charge turned it into a shitty soap opera about a dumb space cowboy and his dumb bug girlfriend. it makes Twilight look like Shakespeare.
Being into nerdy topics is so frustrating nowadays because everything is crap.
TSR's Star*Drive didn't turn into crap, but it was canceled after two years and Hasbro refuses to even make the PDFs available on drivethru and that makes it nearly impossible to share the game with other people.
No, piracy is not a sustainable solution because it opens you to litigation. The whole copyright law needs reforming. Not that I expect that to happen any time soon because our governments are effing morons who don't give a crap about preserving history, art, and culture.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 01, 2024, 02:53:36 PMQuote from: GeekyBugle on April 30, 2024, 09:53:28 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2024, 05:22:01 PMIt's more or less a rehash of 40k. What about other settings? Something more like Starship Troopers, Halo or Starcraft? Except not stupid or "satire".
Thought you wanted totally original settings?
Anything that's "more like Starship Troopers, Halo or Starcraft" can't be original, by definition.
I like having a plethora of settings and I like them not being owned by stupid corpos that drive them into the ground and kill them.
Starship Troopers is crap because Verhoven turned it into bad "satire" and Sony ran with that stupid shit. Now the brand name is garbage. The Mongoose ttrpg was nice, but they lost the license and now even the PDFs aren't available on drivethru.
Halo is... well, it's been mismanaged into crap.
Starcraft... same. The premise was interesting, even if it was derivative, but then the idiots in charge turned it into a shitty soap opera about a dumb space cowboy and his dumb bug girlfriend. it makes Twilight look like Shakespeare.
Being into nerdy topics is so frustrating nowadays because everything is crap.
TSR's Star*Drive didn't turn into crap, but it was canceled after two years and Hasbro refuses to even make the PDFs available on drivethru and that makes it nearly impossible to share the game with other people.
No, piracy is not a sustainable solution because it opens you to litigation. The whole copyright law needs reforming. Not that I expect that to happen any time soon because our governments are effing morons who don't give a crap about preserving history, art, and culture.
Starship Troopers is the novel, not the movie and the movie can't rewrite the novel. But you can always take some derivative setting like say WH40K or Helldivers and make a derivative of it.
The "Starship Troopers" movie suckes because there's no powered armour and the bugs don't have guns and space ships.
I'm working on original settings inspired by the novel in order to compensate for Sony shitting on it. Although one difference I make is that I try to explore the bug pov in some chapters in order to pre-empt bad faith critics. No, they're not a persecuted minority who just want to live in peace, they're engineered killing machines that want to assimilate humanity borg-style. They're highly intelligent and use subversive tactics, like sending in replicants to foment dissent among human societies to weaken them before the invasion, even sending outright diplomats/missionaries to trick the weak-minded.
GW has been trash since at least the 2000s and was showing signs of trouble by the late 90s
Quote from: Omega on May 05, 2024, 06:56:55 AMGW has been trash since at least the 2000s and was showing signs of trouble by the late 90s
Greetings!
Yes, that is right, Omega! I left Games Workshop back then when they just up and cancelled the Warhammer 40K Epic Space Marine game. I had invested literally *thousands* of dollars into this game, building out huge armies of Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Chaos, Eldar, and Tyrannids. Games Workshop showed me then that they were a selfish, greedy, and arrogant company that were disrespectful and thoughtless. So, I said fuck them! I have never been a customer for them since. I don't spend one dime on them anymore.
It is sad though to see so many people getting fucked over by Games Workshop. Just recently, like three weeks ago or so, GW cancelled 50% of the Age of Sigmar game. I saw this one video where a fan had spent 5,000 dollars on this huge, gorgeous army--that is now cancelled. He threw them all into the trash, and said "Fuck Games Workshop! I'm Done!" You could tell that he was both heartbroken and enraged. I am totally empathetic for his feelings. I was there, exactly similar. It does boggle me why though when Games Workshop has now a long history of price gouging, disrespect, and otherwise abusing fans through their policies and statements, for at least 25 years now, that people continue to sign up for them, and then proceed to invest god-awful amounts of money in their products, when it is a certainty that somewhere soon, GW will fuck them too in some way, either cancelling the game entirely, or modifying it severely, or something else stupid and greedy.
As you noted, I discovered that GW was a fucking BS company back in the late 90's. Games Workshop has simply gotten worse, and have continued to be them greedy, stupid selves again and again and again. This is a pattern of greed, stupidity, and disrespect.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Anyone checking out RAVAGED STAR?
https://gamefound.com/en/projects/miniwargaming/ravaged-star-tabletop-miniature-wargame
It looks like a possible 40k replacement.
Anyone played it yet?
GW knows what will calm down the fans.
Another price increase!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/07/2024-pricing-update/
They do that pretty much every year in May. Sales slow down in the spring so they announce price hikes and people rush to buy before the hike.
Quote from: SHARK on May 05, 2024, 05:41:50 PMJust recently, like three weeks ago or so, GW cancelled 50% of the Age of Sigmar game. I saw this one video where a fan had spent 5,000 dollars on this huge, gorgeous army--that is now cancelled. He threw them all into the trash, and said "Fuck Games Workshop! I'm Done!" You could tell that he was both heartbroken and enraged. I am totally empathetic for his feelings. I was there, exactly similar.
I really have no sympathy when Age of Sigmar was created by making the entire Old World Warhammer Fantasy obsolete. How can you be surprised when GW does the exact same thing again to the exact same franchise?
Quote from: hedgehobbit on May 08, 2024, 10:55:13 AMQuote from: SHARK on May 05, 2024, 05:41:50 PMJust recently, like three weeks ago or so, GW cancelled 50% of the Age of Sigmar game. I saw this one video where a fan had spent 5,000 dollars on this huge, gorgeous army--that is now cancelled. He threw them all into the trash, and said "Fuck Games Workshop! I'm Done!" You could tell that he was both heartbroken and enraged. I am totally empathetic for his feelings. I was there, exactly similar.
I really have no sympathy when Age of Sigmar was created by making the entire Old World Warhammer Fantasy obsolete. How can you be surprised when GW does the exact same thing again to the exact same franchise?
Greetings!
*Laughing* Well, I agree Hedgehobbit. On one hand, anyways at least. It's like, yeah, we have seen this shitty, greedy company fucking jerk different games around like pretzels, cancel entire games, and meanwhile, raise prices and pound the shit out of every fan. It is disgusting, and mind boggling to me. As I said earlier, I got burned by Games Workshop when they first cancelled Warhammer 40K Epic Space Marine some 20 years ago, maybe more now that I think about it. Somewhere in the 1998-2004 time frame, as I recall. I lost some $5,000 bucks into a game that wass cancelled, and no longer sold, or supported. My jaw dropped at that. A functional, relatively simple and fun game system--*BOOM*--GONE, just like that! I have never been a customer of GW since then.
However, on the other hand, this guy I saw in the video, I think he said he'd been playing for about 10 years. He talked about how much he had invested, and showed off this awesome, very nicely painted army. He explained that half of his army--he motioned to the whole army on one side of the table--was all gone now, cancelled by Games Workshop. He then picked them up by handfuls and started throwing them into a trash bin. I mention that, because I think he is a millennial, maybe 35ish. Short, well-trimmed beard, likely some kind of professional. He clearly has the cash to invest. *Laughing* But, I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone, especially folks younger than you and I, they don't necessarily know *what we know*, right? Our age and greater experience in the world, the hobby, and in business likely is far more than his, I imagine.
How else do you explain all these younger fans getting ran the fuck over and practically in tears about Age of Sigmar being cancelled and mangled by Games Workshop?
Hell, even some of the Warhammer 40K YouTube channel creators that again, have been in the Games Workshop/Wargaming hobby for similar time frames--10 or 15 years. They too, seem to be totally blindsided by all of the ass fucking that Games Workshop is doing to the fans.
*Laughing* Yeah, I have been burned by Games Workshop once--and have never looked back. However, I have also kept tabs on GW through the years, and I have seen how they just absolutely brutalize the games and the fans--and piss all over those fan's investments--like, every 3-5 years. Again, and again, and again. Did Age of Sigmar miss the assfucking and somehow make it unscathed to the ten-year mark before being wrecked by Games Workshop? I confess, I don't follow them that closely, so I am in the dark about the specifics.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK