Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 13, 2023, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: S'mon on July 12, 2023, 01:58:17 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 11, 2023, 01:40:40 PM
I remember in the original Baldur's Gate game that beads were a real problem when you encountered them

Given the content of this thread, this mis-type had me do a double take! 

I came back to see my mistake, and the effect it had , and I decided not to correct it.

The perils of big thumbs and a small phone.

Well little did people know of the secret +4 Bhall's Beeads of Buggery in Baldur's Gate II.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 12, 2023, 10:27:17 PM
I press X to doubt.

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 12, 2023, 10:51:58 PM
The terminally humorless don't get to say "it's just a joke, bro."

Quote from: Corolinth on July 12, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Whether or not they get "just a joke" depends entirely on the perceived politics of the person making the joke.

Y'all missing my point, which is it means it's acceptable to mock gays and furries even on 'the left'. Truly cringe is the unifying force that will bring peace to the world.

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 11, 2023, 07:06:23 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 11, 2023, 06:39:11 AMNutcases who believe every lie they are told ruin everything.
 
I guess you believe D&D minis can move and speak because someone said they do.

You're running defense of Furrydom pprreettyyy hard here. Is your favorite Battletech mech-pilot the unicorn with the cigar?

No. Im just fed up people throwing around lies because it suits their agenda. Satanic Panic all over again. Exvept this time we have some sort of made up standing for Jews and Blacks so people can have feel good bigotry while they play their elf games and complain about being persecuted.

Hurry for the RPG community. Welcome to the new Woke.

Quote from: Omega on July 15, 2023, 05:23:33 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 11, 2023, 07:06:23 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 11, 2023, 06:39:11 AMNutcases who believe every lie they are told ruin everything.
 
I guess you believe D&D minis can move and speak because someone said they do.

You're running defense of Furrydom pprreettyyy hard here. Is your favorite Battletech mech-pilot the unicorn with the cigar?

No. Im just fed up people throwing around lies because it suits their agenda. Satanic Panic all over again. Exvept this time we have some sort of made up standing for Jews and Blacks so people can have feel good bigotry while they play their elf games and complain about being persecuted.

Hurry for the RPG community. Welcome to the new Woke.

You both need to step back a second. Furries ruin everything, but they are only a symptomatic result of introducing hypersexualism into any kind of media genre. Take anthropomorphic animals as races, like Steve Gallacci's Albedo or Traveller's Aslan and Vargr, add hypersexualism and you get Furries.

It isn't bigotry, it is an aversion to sexualizing everything whether it should be sexualized or not.

Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 15, 2023, 10:58:06 PM
Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

We're in the societal mess we're in BECAUSE we've been ignoring it... presumably hoping the woke perverts would someday be satisfied.

We're now at necro-ursinephilia in this game because the Left by nature must continually transgress the current boundaries of social acceptability. There is no depravity too taboo for them to not want to transgress it if they think they can get away with it.

They accomplished this by first pushing that tolerance of perversion was a virtue while they were weak. Now that they have control they now seek fines and jail time for those who fail to support and pay for inflicting genital mutilation and a lifetime of chemical dependency on Big Pharma on their children while the school push it as the cool new thing all children should be doing.

They're already pushing to replace "pedophile" with "minor attracted person" and are losing thei shit over a film shedding light on the sex trafficking of children... because that is the transgression they're longing for society to tolerate and be forced to celebrate next.

So, fuck off with your "just ignore it."

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 15, 2023, 10:58:06 PM
Sexualization does not inherently make a work of media worse. Or sexual deviancy. Just ignore it.

A weeaboo defending the furries?  Pretty sure that gets Bingo on one of the cards...

The fact that sexuality doesn't inherently make a work worse doesn't mean it makes it better, nor does it mean it CAN'T make it worse (which it does in this case).  Nor does it follow that sexual deviancy should be treated like sexuality in works.  So, yeah, furries make everything worse, along with other fetishists (there's no room for weeb tentacle porn, either).  Degeneracy is a flaw, not a feature...

Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun. Yet it's always the woke who criticize it and non-woke who defend it. We should be critical of all sexual degeneracy, even if it's heterosexual. The slippery slope is everywhere.

Japan is hugely sexually repressed, which results in their media treating rape as acceptable, depicting women as blowup dolls, and sexualizing children. America is sexually open, which results in our media sexualizing children, animals, corpses, inanimate objects, etc... but at least women have more realistic proportions and groping women is seen as evil? Both seem pretty fucked up to me.

We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
Anime is full of sexual degeneracy. Female characters are routinely given blowup doll proportions and constantly groped and molested by the male characters but it's treated as harmless fun.

As one of those "anime fans" pervs, however, I saw my first Japanese cartoon in third grade and, to this day, I saw ONE movie with strong elements of porn and horror (I even liked it - as the true subtext was the price of war). Even if I wanted to watch another, it would need work to find it - and I don't want in the first place.

I agree with your analysis of Japanese culture, but hypersexualization in manga and anime exists only because drawings inherently offer the possibility to show "things" that would be impossible to do in live action. This is why Anime have this "taint", but it is still a small sliver of the overall production.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
blowup doll proportions

I saw a fascinating piece on sex doll proportions; the proportions of the average purchased sex doll are almost exactly the same as the average American woman in the 1950s. The waist was about 1.5" narrower, the bust & hips were exactly the same within 1". And I suspect that does reflect the average Anime character pretty well. Of course modern American & Western women bear no resemblance to either. But I suspect one reason heterosexual Western boys & men like Anime is that in some respect it actually reflects normality, certainly normal compared to the world they see around them.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AMWe need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

Objectification is a bullshit term.
Why is sexualization in media bad but objectification by murdering/assaulting droves of people OK?
But it is an interesting point about where people draw the line I guess and how arbitrary it is.

Edit: Man its really put me in an interesting state of mind. How on one side are people that argue anything short of putting every character in a burka isn't "respecting women", while on the other are people saying denying sex between a bear and corpse is close-minded and missing the Hoomor. And that they should wear their fursuit in public and be applauded for it.

I will say that arguments about how stylization is evil because this is an assault on women (or whatever) is idiotic.



Look at those female characters! Those proportions are completely unrealistic! Better fatten them up and take away other gender signifiers as fast as possible!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

On the face of it, in a vacuum, it's a fine statement to make. The problem is this isn't a vacuum.

I don't know where you fall. I do know that there is a significant portion of the population, both conservative and progressive, for whom there is no such thing as expressing sexuality in healthy ways. They pay lip service to the idea of healthy sexuality, but there is no actual expression of sexuality that they think is healthy. Whenever you ask them point blank, they blow smoke up your ass to dodge the question because they know they're unreasonable.

There was a remark made about choking on an earlier page of this thread. I was going to let it go, because I didn't have much to say about it at the time, but in the intervening days I've realized that every woman I've ever been with - regular, ordinary midwestern gals -  has wanted to be choked. Not every time, but sometimes. Once in a while. So I have to question if maybe choking isn't all that wild and crazy after all. Maybe it's kind of normal. Maybe the author of that Guardian article is the one who's crazy.

Quote from: Corolinth on July 17, 2023, 01:14:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 16, 2023, 11:12:52 AM
We need to express our sexuality in healthy ways that respect the human rights of women and children, as opposed to dehumanizing them into sex toys.

On the face of it, in a vacuum, it's a fine statement to make. The problem is this isn't a vacuum.

I don't know where you fall. I do know that there is a significant portion of the population, both conservative and progressive, for whom there is no such thing as expressing sexuality in healthy ways. They pay lip service to the idea of healthy sexuality, but there is no actual expression of sexuality that they think is healthy. Whenever you ask them point blank, they blow smoke up your ass to dodge the question because they know they're unreasonable.

There was a remark made about choking on an earlier page of this thread. I was going to let it go, because I didn't have much to say about it at the time, but in the intervening days I've realized that every woman I've ever been with - regular, ordinary midwestern gals -  has wanted to be choked. Not every time, but sometimes. Once in a while. So I have to question if maybe choking isn't all that wild and crazy after all. Maybe it's kind of normal. Maybe the author of that Guardian article is the one who's crazy.

As a Christian Puritan that happens to believe you have the God given right to choose to sin, I would love it if people choose not to partake in porn.

Having said that I would love for SOMEONE to explain to me exactly how drawings or pixels on a screen transgress against the human rights of anyone. I mean where there's not a real human being in your screen or on paper.

Furthermore, if someone chooses to get naked or fucked for profit... It violates every moral code I hold but how does it violate the individual's human rights?

Lets take it to RPGs: Me having cultures that practice all sorts of immoral things on my setting violates someone's human rights? If yes please explain exactly how and if not then explain exactly how is it different in RPGs from anime, manga, etc.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 17, 2023, 01:29:54 AM
As a Christian Puritan that happens to believe you have the God given right to choose to sin, I would love it if people choose not to partake in porn.

I have no problems with porn itself. I always found it boring and I watched porn a bit when I started dating - to get... uh... ideas - and that was it. However, what happens in sex between consenting adults involves only them. It is not up to ne to judge them - and if God disagrees they are already in big trouble anyway.

Quote
Having said that I would love for SOMEONE to explain to me exactly how drawings or pixels on a screen transgress against the human rights of anyone. I mean where there's not a real human being in your screen or on paper.

To some, watching fiction involving disturbing porn means that you are already inclined to be a perv. Showing your collection of Van Damme's movies is fine: you are a fan and that's it. No one thinks that you will do the next Sandy Hooks. Showing your collection of anime porn, however, is a good way to find the police out of your door the next day.

OTOH, many psychologists will argue that watching fiction is an healthy valve and that no one should be judged for that - unless that fiction involves real illegal, disturbing acts (like paedopornography).

Anyway, I think that one of the best answers to the question was given by Will Wrigth, the creator of "The Sims", when I interviewed him long ago. One question involved how in The Sims you could have homosexual relationships, sex before marriage, cheating... and yet many Christians played the game and enjoyed it. Wrigth said:

"You can do certain things in the game, or choose not to do them, according to your world view. Without choice your actions have no meaning."

Which is why I find this whole BG3 thingie preposterous. First, I'm not going to have sex as a bear. Second, there are actually many ancient legends around the World about shape shifting lovers who experimented in various ways. Third, "Hey! Let's try the 'I'm a bear, you are a cat thinghie!'" is just juvenile. Fourth, it is the Americans who have this unhealthy obsession with "furries" (*) I can easily see a European looking at bear porn and finding it very funny (and juvenile).

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Quote
Furthermore, if someone chooses to get naked or fucked for profit... It violates every moral code I hold but how does it violate the individual's human rights?

This is why there is a separation between Church and State (and if there isn't there should be). Acts "immoral" to someone can be legal. Once again, it is up to God to pass further judgement. Let's not forget Jesus and Mary Magdalene.

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Lets take it to RPGs: Me having cultures that practice all sorts of immoral things on my setting violates someone's human rights? If yes please explain exactly how and if not then explain exactly how is it different in RPGs from anime, manga, etc.

When The Forge Fundamentalists were all the rage, my answer was always the same: RPGs are like sex. What is good and fun, and what isn't, is up only to those who partake in it. No one has the right to arrive from outside and impose his views.

Regarding your question, once again it is the existence of perversion which gives value to morality in your World. And Freedom of Thought not only isn't a crime but a recognised human right anyway.

Quote from: Reckall on July 17, 2023, 04:28:36 AM

(*) Back in 2009, when Avatar was all the rage, sone American relatives came to Italy for Christmas. Thinking that it would have been a nice surprise, I bought tickets for the best screen around and the version in original English - only to have "concerned mothers" asking me if Avatar had "furries". NO ONE over here had a clue about what they were talking about. So, they explained, and after their explanation NO ONE still had a clue about what they were talking about. To this day I wonder "If you cosplay in bed as Batman it is fine but if you cosplay as Yogi Bear you are a perv... why?"

Simply because it never stays in the bedroom. If Furries never broadcast their fetish to everyone and used it as a form of identity outside of the bedroom, nobody would care. Except it doesn't stay private between adults - it gets spammed in every bit of media possible that people allow it.
Furries won't shut up about their kink and insist that it appear in the stupidest of places, including Battletech and Warhammer 40K.