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Author Topic: Arcane Legions  (Read 2911 times)

Captain Rufus

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Arcane Legions
« on: October 18, 2009, 04:27:32 pm »
For those that missed it, Arcane Legions was released to live play (as opposed to Gen Con first look bullshit) about a week and a half ago.  Instead of me cutting and pasting my comic style unboxing and first playtest review, I am just gonna link to my 2 entries.  (With a third and maybe fourth due this week once I get the army packs and the Egyptian Booster Bundle.)

http://wargamedork.blogspot.com/2009/10/arcane-legions-first-look-review.html

http://wargamedork.blogspot.com/2009/10/arcane-legions-playtest-review.html

So far I think its pretty neat, though like almost every game Jordan Weisman has done, the revised ruleset that will inevitably come up after players tear through the game will be better.  (Until then it really needs some house rules to shine.  I think the archery example shows why.  Not to mention what's to stop some cheesehead munchkin from taking all archer units and a couple sortie base units as blockers?  Right now, nothing.)

Like most hobby games the designers seem unable to understand the vast majority of gamers will stomp all over good gamesmanship and gentlemanly play in the ways a tentacle monster treats a Japanese schoolgirl.

Magic learned it, Warhammer has sort of learned it, Battletech learned it.

J Arcane

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Arcane Legions
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 04:39:58 pm »
I'd heard of this, and was intrigued.

Then you mentioned Jordan Weisman.

He's a talented guy and all, but he has the attention span of a gnat.  He'll bet bored with this and dump it off on some random company inside of a year, and then the thing will spend the next several years slowly petering out into obscurity, and that's if it's lucky and the game is good enough.

Once that guy's name gets attached to something my estimation of long-term support and survival plummets pretty quickly.
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stu2000

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Arcane Legions
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2009, 05:56:58 pm »
Be that as it may, I've also found it fun and engaging. It occupies about the same place on the board<---->war game spectrum as Heroscape, one of my all-time favorites. I intend to ride that train for a while.
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VectorSigma

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Arcane Legions
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2009, 10:43:02 pm »
The _game_ doesn't look that interesting to me, but the models sure do!
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Captain Rufus

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Arcane Legions
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2009, 01:45:51 am »
Well, here is the third part of my review, covering the army packs and booster packs:

http://wargamedork.blogspot.com/2009/10/arcane-legions-expansion-review.html

Doom

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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 02:41:13 pm »
I'm still pretty happy with Battlelore....if you're familiar with both, what about Arcane Legions trumps Battlelore?

The only thing I can think of is 'Lore is pretty much about medieval troops, with goblins, dwarves, and a few monsters. But anything else?
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Captain Rufus

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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2009, 01:31:38 am »
Quote from: Doom;340697
I'm still pretty happy with Battlelore....if you're familiar with both, what about Arcane Legions trumps Battlelore?

The only thing I can think of is 'Lore is pretty much about medieval troops, with goblins, dwarves, and a few monsters. But anything else?


Arcane Legions is a proper miniatures wargame and not a boardgame.  Actual unit formations.  No card driven Command & Colors system flank selection.  Units have special powers.   A mixture of resource management, movement, and luck alongside actual army building.  Nowhere near as abstract as Battlelore.  3 full factions plus Mercenaries.  Unique timeframe and world to play in.  25mm scale miniatures.

Battlelore is a light hex and chit boardgame with minis.   Arcane Legions is a miniatures wargame.

Doom

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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 03:57:57 pm »
Quote from: Captain Rufus;340783
Arcane Legions is a proper miniatures wargame and not a boardgame.  Actual unit formations.  No card driven Command & Colors system flank selection.  Units have special powers.   A mixture of resource management, movement, and luck alongside actual army building.  Nowhere near as abstract as Battlelore.  3 full factions plus Mercenaries.  Unique timeframe and world to play in.  25mm scale miniatures.

Battlelore is a light hex and chit boardgame with minis.   Arcane Legions is a miniatures wargame.


Actually, Battlelore has formations, units with special powers, resource management, movement and luck, along with an easily arguable 3 factions (humans, goblins, dwarves) plus monsters, and as unique a world as any.

So, basically it's the scale, playing on an open board instead of an open table, and less abstract, and no randomness from cards, just dice?

Fair enough. How is it less abstract? In battlelore, my archers roll dice to see if they hit, the number of dice and what constitutes a hit and the effects of hits varying due to a number of factors. How is it done in 'Legions, for example?
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Joshua Ford

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Arcane Legions
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 05:47:07 pm »
Quote from: Doom;340932
Actually, Battlelore has formations, units with special powers, resource management, movement and luck, along with an easily arguable 3 factions (humans, goblins, dwarves) plus monsters, and as unique a world as any.

So, basically it's the scale, playing on an open board instead of an open table, and less abstract, and no randomness from cards, just dice?

Fair enough. How is it less abstract? In battlelore, my archers roll dice to see if they hit, the number of dice and what constitutes a hit and the effects of hits varying due to a number of factors. How is it done in 'Legions, for example?


Jumping in here, you've just given me an idea for some basic WWII rules to use at school - well a combination of Memoir and Battle Masters with the hexes.
 

Captain Rufus

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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2009, 12:23:46 am »
Considering my blog has mostly been about Arcane Legions this month, just read the damned comics and maybe DL the rules PDF from arcanelegions.com.

It'll tell you pretty much everything you need to know.

I like Battle Lore (at least the level 1 basic rules with no magic or lore councils anyhow.  The only expansions I bought were the non fantasy ones.  I wanted more unit types.) but to me it feels COMPLETELY different than Arcane Legions.

Joshua Ford

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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2009, 08:26:31 am »
Do the troops always stay on those cardboard bases and in those formations? To be honest, that looks a bit crap to me in a minis game - I don't go overboard on landscaping bases but I at least like them to blend in a bit. Are those spaces I see in the middle for putting markers?

EDIT: I found a review at http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/29/arcane-legions-could-be-a-game-changer/ Still not sold on the look of the movement trays and it looks more suited to ancient battlefields with little terrain rather than built-up areas, but I think there are some interesting ideas anyway.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 08:36:27 am by Joshua Ford »
 

Captain Rufus

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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2009, 07:01:36 pm »
Not to be rude, but... CAN YOU FUCKING READ DUDE?

I answer every question asked so far in my review and overview comics.

The point of the formation bases.  Why there are open spots.  How combat works.  How the whole damned game plays.

Joshua Ford

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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2009, 07:24:47 pm »
Quote from: Captain Rufus;341193
Not to be rude, but... CAN YOU FUCKING READ DUDE?

I answer every question asked so far in my review and overview comics.

The point of the formation bases.  Why there are open spots.  How combat works.  How the whole damned game plays.

Honestly (and to be less rude than you I hope), I couldn't be arsed reading through every piece of info you'd put up in detail - there's far too much there for easy digestion. The review I actually linked to was far more succinct in highlighting the issues I wanted to know about. The idea of moving the figures and formation revealing different characteristics - I like, although aesthetically it's ironically no more pleasing than Memoir '44 or Battlelore.

I understand you're fired up about the game but when you do get asked for comparisons, differences or things that just aren't clear, saying 'read my review' rather than actually answering the question isn't very helpful.

EDIT: to add, what I'm trying to say if at least a couple of people have responded to your thread on one of the quieter sub-forums and have actually looked at your review (if not in depth), but still have fundamental questions to ask, then perhaps you might want to look at your review itself before you just tell us to read it again, rather than bother answering any questions.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 07:35:50 pm by Joshua Ford »
 

Captain Rufus

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Arcane Legions
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 01:10:53 am »
Quote from: Joshua Ford;341202
Honestly (and to be less rude than you I hope), I couldn't be arsed reading through every piece of info you'd put up in detail - there's far too much there for easy digestion.


Everything else you said in your reply is now meaningless.

I spend HOURS making my comics.  Photo taking, editing, writing, organizing, uploading.

If you can't be arsed to read an in depth review aimed at not only covering almost every question someone might have, but basically teaching how the game plays with actual examples in a format designed to be digested and understood quickly, whose fault is that?

Its what.. 22 pages total counting the fluffy actual game battle report at the end?  

It takes about 10-20 minutes to read a comic book of that size.  This isn't that infamous RPGnet FATAL review.

One of my pet peeves is when I say something, then it is ignored, and then people act stupid about it.  I don't like having to repeat myself because people have decided to have the attention span of a gnat.

Its why I don't want children.  I state things clearly and in as much detail as needed.  ONCE.  After that I get... less than happy.  

But since you are lazy here are the pages that answer your damned question:






This explains what the bases do and why there are empty holes and why you need the unit cards on the base as opposed to the art project bases most Warhammer type minis gamers seem to be putting their toy soldiers on these days.

Because the cards list almost everything you need to know to use that unit.  What models it starts with, where they start the battle, what their movement costs are, their special ability icons (which are repeated on the small cards as a quick reference with some unit fluff on the back), and their combat abilities.  

But.. if you had bothered to read what I spent a lot of time and effort creating.. YOU WOULD HAVE ALREADY KNOWN THAT.

Joshua Ford

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Arcane Legions
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2009, 04:54:40 am »
And yet the other review covered the info I needed in a paragraph or two, with a simple picture or two, contrasting the different formations. Yours doesn't actually state the rationale in a clear and simple manner. FFS I even pointed out I'd found a review that had done a better job of answering my query so you needn't have bothered getting your panties in a punch and replying.

Just because you spend hours on it doesn't mean your review is the best it could be and you bury the useful info in pretty pictures. You use terminology from the rules without explaining it clearly ('snap?') and state the obvious at times too. I need a tape measure and you're going to show me a picture of one just in case I don't know what they are, really? Fucking hell, there's a revelation.

If you're going to write a review and spend all these hours on it, you might want to spend more time clarifying points when asked on them rather than someone who when 'reviewing' just regurgitates the rules and adds pictures rather than goes over a game in a concise manner, highighting what's new/different/superior about the game.

You state that your info covers how the game plays as well as being a review - that's the problem really. You're falling over yourself to say how great it is and show us the game, you haven't really sat back and produced a decent review, despite all your hours of labour. I can read twenty pages of a comic book far more easily than the (often irrelevant) text you churn out.

Quantity doesn't always equal quality. Sorry.

EDIT: Maybe you should just state after posting a review that you won't be answering questions as you've said it once and covered every question a person might possibly want to ask. And if it's not clear enough we should just read it again. That would solve future back and forths and save you sharing your family planning thoughts with the rest of us.

EDIT (again): To go with with your comments about children listening, I teach. This year one of my classes is 30 twelve year-olds for Maths, 3 hours a week. At times it's frustrating when they don't get something immediately but whilst my immediate thought is occasionally 'Why don't they get this?' I quickly realised that it's usually the way I've explained it - some kids I'm sure haven't been paying full attention, but when one-third or more don't get it, the issue is usually with me and my explanation.

You're the model-builder who goes on about gamers 'spergin' aren't you? I find your lack of empathy(together with your obssessive attention to detail - 20 pages for a 'review'?) and the irony in your response to comments on this thread very telling.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 05:49:29 am by Joshua Ford »