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Author Topic: Apocalypse World - where is the love ?  (Read 6204 times)

Tommy Brownell

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2012, 11:05:39 AM »
Quote from: silva;602002
Where I can find a physical copy of Tremulus and Saga of the Icelanders ?

I missed their crowdfundings. :o


tremulus is still moving to the final draft.

The Apocalypse World sex moves, combined with the same system being used with other genres I like better, is a big part of why I skipped it and went to tremulus, Monster of the Week and DungeonWorld.  People made such a huge deal out of the sex moves that, yeah, it kinda made me think that's what the game was about.
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The Traveller

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2012, 11:25:07 AM »
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;602013
The Apocalypse World sex moves, combined with the same system being used with other genres I like better, is a big part of why I skipped it and went to tremulus, Monster of the Week and DungeonWorld.  People made such a huge deal out of the sex moves that, yeah, it kinda made me think that's what the game was about.

Wait

What?
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Tommy Brownell

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2012, 11:27:40 AM »
Quote from: The Traveller;602016
Wait

What?


Everything I read online made a huge deal out of the sex moves, making me think they were a HUGE part of the game. Above thread, folks say that's not the case.

The sex moves thing was kind of a turn off to me, but then tremulus, Monster of the Week and DungeonWorld came along and I went with those over Apocalypse World, since I prefer the respective genres to post-apocalypse anyway.
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Tommy Brownell

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2012, 11:31:20 AM »
Quote from: noisms;602000
People seem to fixate on those, even though you can excise them from the game with no difficulty at all.

I love how people will make all kinds of house rules and special pleading for games they like, but for a game they've decided they don't like, suddenly you have to look at it in terms of the RAW.


While that is a great point, there are some things in some games that are much harder to remove. Take Monsterhearts, for instance, and try to remove the sexual content and you have essentially gutted the game.

Having not read Apocalypse World myself, just discussions online, the way folks focused on sex moves made me think it would be like removing levels from D&D, bennies from Savage Worlds, and so on and so forth...then, as noted, other games with genres I liked better came along using the same system, and I was happy enough.
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The Traveller

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2012, 11:50:28 AM »
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;602017
Everything I read online made a huge deal out of the sex moves, making me think they were a HUGE part of the game. Above thread, folks say that's not the case.

I mean, what, sex moves? I haven't really investigated the production but as far as games go that's a major alarm bell right there, I don't mind playing in someone else's imagination but not their creepy fantasy. Although I'd probably be considered by most to be pretty liberated in real life, it just doesn't seem like tabletop RPGs are a healthy outlet for that kind of energy. Historically at least they've dealt with the topic poorly at best. It would mess up the rest of the game for me.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
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A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGs
If you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I'd choose a different game.

Tommy Brownell

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2012, 12:02:18 PM »
Quote from: The Traveller;602025
I mean, what, sex moves? I haven't really investigated the production but as far as games go that's a major alarm bell right there, I don't mind playing in someone else's imagination but not their creepy fantasy. Although I'd probably be considered by most to be pretty liberated in real life, it just doesn't seem like tabletop RPGs are a healthy outlet for that kind of energy. Historically at least they've dealt with the topic poorly at best. It would mess up the rest of the game for me.

Aaaaah, thought I was just being unclear this morning...=)

The different Playbooks (character options) all have a Sex Move...essentially, you have sex with someone and gain a mechanical benefit from it. The Brainer ( a creepy psychic) can do a deep mental scan while having sex with them...there's also multiple instances of moves that relate to the manipulation or seduction of another character (PC or NPC) into having sex with you.

Honestly, from reading the Playbooks, I don't think it would be that easy to remove, (one of the five stats is designed specifically for seduction and manipulation) so I really don't think the game's for me...heavy mechanical emphasis on sex or romance in RPGs has never been a high priority for me or my players.

That said, I do like the system (as did one of my players) when we played tremulus.
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silva

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2012, 12:25:31 PM »
Quote from: The Traveller
what, sex moves? I haven't really investigated the production but as far as games go that's a major alarm bell right there, I don't mind playing in someone else's imagination but not their creepy fantasy. Although I'd probably be considered by most to be pretty liberated in real life, it just doesn't seem like tabletop RPGs are a healthy outlet for that kind of energy. Historically at least they've dealt with the topic poorly at best. It would mess up the rest of the game for me

The Sex moves can be removed from the game without any prejudice. My group never used it, for example. The game already have enough stuff in place to promote intra-party tension and drama.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:29:07 PM by silva »

DKChannelBoredom

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2012, 12:30:25 PM »
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;602028
Honestly, from reading the Playbooks, I don't think it would be that easy to remove, (one of the five stats is designed specifically for seduction and manipulation) so I really don't think the game's for me...heavy mechanical emphasis on sex or romance in RPGs has never been a high priority for me or my players.


I don't think they are hard to push in the background - basically I think they are rules/moves for making the characters interact and push the drama. That's how I've seen them in use and they don't take up a lot of time. And yes, they were one the things that made me sceptical on first reading the book - but they work fine in play, without being any more exchanging twisted fantasies, than an in game fight is real og scary. And it goes very well hand in hand with character connection rules that is part of character creation.
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Quote from: Cranewings;410955
Cocain is more popular than rp so there is bound to be some crossover.

The Traveller

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« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2012, 01:16:38 PM »
Quote from: silva;602033
The Sex moves can be removed from the game without any prejudice. My group never used it, for example. The game already have enough stuff in place to promote intra-party tension and drama.

I love refitting good settings as much as the next man but its the kind of thing that would make me wonder where else the creepiness has slopped over. Is the setting really that good? What makes it unique from any number of similar settings?
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGs
If you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I'd choose a different game.

DKChannelBoredom

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Apocalypse World - where is the love ?
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2012, 01:35:16 PM »
Quote from: The Traveller;602040
I love refitting good settings as much as the next man but its the kind of thing that would make me wonder where else the creepiness has slopped over. Is the setting really that good? What makes it unique from any number of similar settings?


Apocalypse World doesn't have a setting, per se. It has a range of classes, pretty classic post-apocalypse archtypes, and a set of rules that tightly intertwined with them, both when it comes to combat, social interaction and general drama.

I have seen it run in classic Mad Max'esque PA, tied to a single location (a gasstation in the desert), in a travelling Carnivale-style nomade game, in snow-filled chaos (not unlike The Road) and in a near future-game, set in Copenhagen. So it's quite easy to fit in, and has good rules for coming up with surroundings and challenges. And the drama, plot and tensions arise from, and in, the characters and interplay and in pretty perfect combination with the rules.
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Quote from: Cranewings;410955
Cocain is more popular than rp so there is bound to be some crossover.

The Traveller

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« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2012, 01:42:48 PM »
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;602043
Apocalypse World doesn't have a setting, per se.

So its just a system? For pity's sake.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGs
If you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I'd choose a different game.

silva

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« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2012, 01:56:30 PM »
Trav, the way I see it, the point of the game is not the setting, but the gameplay. The setting is just one more tool to help promote an intended playstyle. The same can be said for the sex mechanics, the barter mechanics, the relationship mechanics, the GM mechanics, etc - all this is in place to enforce a gritty, dramatic, hard-choices/consequences, player-driven gameplay.

So, in this way, the game is similar to the first D&Ds where the focus of the game is the gameplay, not the setting. To "refit" the setting,in this case, doesnt make much sense since its just broad strokes intended to be more defined through play, and will be different from group to group.

About the Sex mchanics, they are in place to help convey the sense of scarcity the game aims for, and make it a scape valve, or a barter product.  (" I need a bodyguard for the next meeting, but have nothing else to offer the Battlebabe.." ). MY group didnt feel confortable with it though, so we simply ignored it, and we didnt regret it, since there are other things in place to enforce the scarcity.

Got it?

Take a look at the game classes and see what you think. They say a lot about the game. :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 02:10:29 PM by silva »

One Horse Town

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« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2012, 01:57:11 PM »
Quote from: noisms;602000
I love how people will make all kinds of house rules and special pleading for games they like, but for a game they've decided they don't like, suddenly you have to look at it in terms of the RAW.


I love how people who try to make out that AW is a traditional game always seem to pretend that sexy sex moves aren't part of the game.

silva

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« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2012, 02:08:24 PM »
Horse, why do you think Apocalypse World is not an rpg? Please, elaborate.

DKChannelBoredom

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« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2012, 02:10:55 PM »
Just read out the disclaimer from Over The Edge before playing, and you should be fine:
Quote
All references to vices and to the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. Over The Edge does not promote satanism, belief in in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitude toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities" (OtE, page 7)
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Quote from: Cranewings;410955
Cocain is more popular than rp so there is bound to be some crossover.