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Author Topic: Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?  (Read 10746 times)

silva

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Just finished reading it, and I cant believe how awesome it is.

Let me define "awesome" first: a (moderatedly) simple game with fast character creation, little prep-time, evocative classes that are more than packages of powers, and a player-driven gameplay built-in on the rules. In other words: something very fitting for an adult with children that has not much time to spend prepping games, taking 2 hours creating chars or resolving long combats.

Maybe its too early to say it (didnt play it yet) but Im considering adopting it as my default game system from now on. Im that impressed.

So, anybody else have read it or played it? Am I the only to have this reaction ?

DominikSchwager

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 06:04:42 pm »
Yes, yes it is very good. It also delievers in actual play.

B.T.

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 06:57:21 pm »
Did not like it.  Too much emphasis on sex and the mechanics were Swiney.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;530561
Y'know, I've learned something from this thread. Both B.T. and Koltar are idiots, but whereas B.T. possesses a malign intelligence, Koltar is just a drooling fuckwit.

So, that's something, I guess.

two_fishes

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 07:20:01 pm »
I've played it a couple of times. I liked it. The character classes were cool ad very evocative of the setting. The moves worked smoothly and were pretty good for delivering fast paced results. The way you so often get partial successes with setbacks made me feel like everything was a desparate scrabble for advantage--good in a post-apoc game. The History mechanic felt a little forced, though.  The sex moves, for all the heat they got, made relationships in the game feel like a commodity, worth more for the resources they provided than for any human comfort, which is again fitting to the genre. I like the conversation mechanics a lot, and I have since I first saw them in Storming the Wizard's Tower. They're simple and clever and work nicely in play.

Rincewind1

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 07:41:07 pm »
It's all fun and games, until you read fucking pretentious writings of the author in the matter of that RPG, and people who compare it to Next Coming of Gygax.

Blergh. I am not exactly the Ultimate Foe of Storygames, but it's one of those pretentious pieces that make me want to nuke Forge into oblivion.

Also - it's not terribly flexible, and of course like all true pigs, has the "THOU SHALL STICKETH BY THE RULETH" paragraph, which automatically sends any RPG in my eyes into a nearest trash bin. Those Forge RPG Makers really must had had some terrible GMing experiences that they try to marginize the GM's role by all costs.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 07:44:50 pm by Rincewind1 »
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

DominikSchwager

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 07:44:55 pm »
Quote from: Rincewind1;505043
It's all fun and games, until you read fucking pretentious writings of the author in the matter of that RPG, and people who compare it to Next Coming of Gygax.

Blergh.

Also - it's not terribly flexible, and of course like all true pigs, has the "THOU SHALL STICKETH BY THE RULETH" paragraph, which automatically sends any RPG in my eyes into a nearest trash bin.


Please show us on the doll where the storygamer touched you...oh wait, nobody cares.

Rincewind1

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 07:45:53 pm »
Quote from: DominikSchwager;505045
Please show us on the doll where the storygamer touched you...oh wait, nobody cares.

Says the lad who bothered to, oh wait, answer me?

:forge:

Of course, if you prefer that your character is good at shooting people because he just had sex with another character  rather then because he trained shooting guns, this is a game for you.

The sex mechanic, irony aside, I actually like - but I'm adapting it for a game in spirit of "Here I Stand" - PCs gain special XPs when they defend their Protestant or Catholic beliefs.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

Peregrin

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 08:24:09 pm »
Quote from: Rincewind1;505043
It's all fun and games, until you read fucking pretentious writings of the author in the matter of that RPG, and people who compare it to Next Coming of Gygax.

Blergh. I am not exactly the Ultimate Foe of Storygames, but it's one of those pretentious pieces that make me want to nuke Forge into oblivion.

Also - it's not terribly flexible, and of course like all true pigs, has the "THOU SHALL STICKETH BY THE RULETH" paragraph, which automatically sends any RPG in my eyes into a nearest trash bin. Those Forge RPG Makers really must had had some terrible GMing experiences that they try to marginize the GM's role by all costs.

Gygax in his younger days came off pretty prescriptive and pretentious, so it'd be par for the course.

I was the GM for me group when I started experimenting with marginalizing my own role, long before I ever knew of the forge or any of this shitty gamer wars bullshit.

And you know what?  Some of my best sessions came out of experimenting with stuff like that.   Adherence to tradition for the sake of tradition annoys me just aw much as people trying to be edgy.
“In a way, the Lands of Dream are far more brutal than the worlds of most mainstream games. All of the games set there have a bittersweetness that I find much harder to take than the ridiculous adolescent posturing of so-called 'grittily realistic' games. So maybe one reason I like them as a setting is because they are far more like the real world: colourful, crazy, full of strange creatures and people, eternal and yet changing, deeply beautiful and sometimes profoundly bitter.”

Rincewind1

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 08:26:23 pm »
Quote from: Peregrin;505064
Gygax in his younger days came off pretty prescriptive and pretentious, so it'd be par for the course.

I was the GM for me group when I started experimenting with marginalizing my own role, long before I ever knew of the forge or any of this shitty gamer wars bullshit.

And you know what?  Some of my best sessions came out of experimenting with stuff like that.   Adherence to tradition for the sake of tradition annoys me just aw much as people trying to be edgy.


There's a vast difference between marginalizing the role of a GM, spreading narrative power, and spreading rulings power, but that's really a topic for vast discussion and I'm too drunk for it. Long story short - I myself allow my players quite a vast narrative powers, and I usually make a ruling based on opinions of those around the table, but that doesn't mean I'm rediscovering RPGs.

Any RPG that tries to give me the "You must stick to the rules" bullshit, no matter the reasons, is not worth the paper it was printed on.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

Peregrin

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 08:28:24 pm »
For you, maybe.
“In a way, the Lands of Dream are far more brutal than the worlds of most mainstream games. All of the games set there have a bittersweetness that I find much harder to take than the ridiculous adolescent posturing of so-called 'grittily realistic' games. So maybe one reason I like them as a setting is because they are far more like the real world: colourful, crazy, full of strange creatures and people, eternal and yet changing, deeply beautiful and sometimes profoundly bitter.”

Rincewind1

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 08:29:43 pm »
Quote from: Peregrin;505069
For you, maybe.

You are free to choose wrong, stupid and pretentious GMing advice if you prefer. I will however at least try and warn people about it - because putting "Do not change the rules" is pretty much the Deadly Sin of RPGs. I've devoted 20 pages of arguing about this already, so I'll just link:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?607636-Systems-and-Genre-Missidentification

Happy reading. At least Peregrin you have enough class to not go full ad hominem on me after I "diss" the storygaming bollocks, like most of story crowd. I'm not some "anti - storey" crusader, but storygames are indeed a bastion of pretentious and transgressive content that disguises poor game design.

No class in trolling, no class indeed.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:43:24 pm by Rincewind1 »
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

silva

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 09:14:14 pm »
Quote from: Rincewind1;505043
It's all fun and games, until you read fucking pretentious writings of the author in the matter of that RPG, and people who compare it to Next Coming of Gygax.

Blergh. I am not exactly the Ultimate Foe of Storygames, but it's one of those pretentious pieces that make me want to nuke Forge into oblivion.

Also - it's not terribly flexible, and of course like all true pigs, has the "THOU SHALL STICKETH BY THE RULETH" paragraph, which automatically sends any RPG in my eyes into a nearest trash bin. Those Forge RPG Makers really must had had some terrible GMing experiences that they try to marginize the GM's role by all costs.
So, Rincewind, you didnt like the game because..

1. you found its author´s writing pretentious

2. because he asks the reader to stick by the rules

Thats it?

If so, Ive read all the book and didnt find the author pretentious, nor got bothered with his "stick to the rules" advice (in fact, I found it very appropriate, since the game style the system is built upon dont seem to work with a more traditional "railroady / GM takes players by hand" kind of game). And I would find it a bit too hasty to judge a game based on those 2 thigns only. But YMMV and all that.

Now, I didnt found anywhere in the text a "narrative-sharing" feature at all, at least not in the same sense as those story-games where the players have the "right" to narrate/create what happens next from his hat. Am I right in this assessment ? The game dont contain this feature, right ? Because, to be frank, Im not very fond of this kind of thing. I prefer a more traditional approach.

Can someone confirm it for me ? :confused:
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 09:17:56 pm by silva »

Rincewind1

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 09:18:26 pm »
Quote from: silva;505082

If so, Ive read all the book and didnt find the author pretentious, nor got bothered with his "stick to the rules" advice (in fact, I found it very appropriate, since the game style the system is built upon dont seem to work with a more traditional "railroady / GM takes players by hand" kind of game).


If you think this is what "classic" RPGs are about, then our conversation here is done.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

Benoist

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2012, 09:25:02 pm »
Wait, wait, wait. "Railroady" and "the GM leads the players by the hand" are supposed to be "traditional" aspects of gaming now? What the fuck kind of nonsense is this? I must have misunderstood what you meant. I hope so.

silva

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Apocalypse World: really awesome or am I missing something here ?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 09:27:41 pm »
I know what Ive read in various rpg books since my youth. And yes, the "railroading/GM takes players by hand through a (more or less) pre-planned adventure/chronicle/story" is a feature from most of them.


EDIT: yes Ben, youve heard it right.