Quote from: noisms;351957I read one of his essays once (the one about Fantasy Heartbreakers) and although it was atrociously dull, I actually thought the sentiment and analysis was spot on. He was also very kind about some games that he could legitimately have torn to shreds.

I couldn't be arsed fighting through his other scribblings though. Life is too short for leaders of personality cults, unless they do something really interesting.

Kudos for getting all the way through the essay.  Atrociously dull to me describes the whole GNS theory.  It is like a show on cable I saw once that was called "Inside Sex" or something.  I turned it on expecting to be entertained but it turned out to be a bunch of scientific theory and interviews without even token nudity.  GNS to me is like that, it takes rpgs, an activity that is fun and didn't need to be analyzed, and proceeds to turn it into a boring academic exercise that acheives no substantive results other than to insult the intelligence of gamers who don't subscribe to the theory.

You either write a good game or you don't.  If you do then you may be the next Gary Gygax, if you don't, then nobody will play it and you will be a greeter at Walmart next week.  RPG Darwinism is the only gaming theory I need.

Back to the OP. I got bored and looked at some Jeepform sites and most of it was creepy and weird with games like the one in the OP and some garbage about playing the role of a Mother who is allowing child abuse.  If they want to do these "acting seminars" or whatever then fine, but stop calling them RPG's or "games" and find your own terminology you smug pseudo-intellectual f'tards!

Quote from: RPGPundit;351930Many of the very worst writers I've ever seen are academics.

RPGPundit

Hell, my thesis proposal has dragged on for months because I have trouble brewing the right kind of bad writing.

Quote from: StormBringer;351815Werewolf LARPs are not specifically designed to simulate gang rape.

They are, however, designed to simulate the ordinary kind of rape. Remember, garou rage makes them unsettling to humand and animals. That aside, my point was that to a conservative Christian, a book about pantheistic, dualist, violent inhumans possessed by demons, occasionally lapsing into cannibalism or sexual degeneration (it's there in the book) would probably consider the game to be as morally repugnant as a game about gang rape.

Quote from: pawsplay;351989They are, however, designed to simulate the ordinary kind of rape. Remember, garou rage makes them unsettling to humand and animals.

Wait, are you saying that a specific mechanical aspect designed to simulate a genre is akin to rape?

QuoteThat aside, my point was that to a conservative Christian, a book about pantheistic, dualist, violent inhumans possessed by demons, occasionally lapsing into cannibalism or sexual degeneration (it's there in the book) would probably consider the game to be as morally repugnant as a game about gang rape.

Ok, but not everyone has the sensibilities of a conservative Christian*.  I assume a conservative Muslim would have similar issues with the portrayal of women in most RPGs.  Neither of those has anything to do with the fact that this jeepform is specifically designed around gang rape and outside of FATAL, RPGs are not.

Your attempt at moral equivalence is not only banal, it approaches a new level of inchoate dissembling.


* I assume you refer to the particularly American flavour, as I understand they aren't quite so loony elsewhere

Quote from: pawsplay;351989They are, however, designed to simulate the ordinary kind of rape. Remember, garou rage makes them unsettling to humand and animals.

What connection do those two sentences have?  The surface reading of it suggests that animals get spooked around rapists, which seems ridiculous on the face of it so you probably meant something else.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;351937There are numerous other faults in his writing which I have already addressed elsewhere (link above), and which it would be tedious to recount.

Well, sure.  But like I said, just because there are crappy ideas doesn't mean you can't pull good ones out of Edward's ramblings.  Though most of his "good" ideas have been around a lot longer than he has.

But we're discussing this on therpgsite, and I doubt many people here would admit any good games have come out of (or even been associated with) the Forge.

Quote from: StormBringer;351994Wait, are you saying that a specific mechanical aspect designed to simulate a genre is akin to rape?

No, I mean that garou commonly reproduce by nonconsensual sex with humans and wolves.

QuoteOk, but not everyone has the sensibilities of a conservative Christian*.  I assume a conservative Muslim would have similar issues with the portrayal of women in most RPGs.  Neither of those has anything to do with the fact that this jeepform is specifically designed around gang rape and outside of FATAL, RPGs are not.

I wonder why you feel your objection to gang rape is more morally relevant than a Christian's objection to depictions of satanic possession.

Quote from: Peregrin;351999But we're discussing this on therpgsite, and I doubt many people here would admit any good games have come out of (or even been associated with) the Forge.

Appearances can be deceptive. Even Pundit has been converted to "say yes or throw the dice".

QuoteThe chief complication that Gnomemurdered GMs run into is the matter of how if any action rolled for has a 50% chance that your PC will be murdered by Gnomes, this makes for a very unstable campaign, supposedly.

Well, the answer is very simple: Don't make them roll for just ANYTHING. In most actions, just assume success. If its something a reasonable version of the character they have chosen ought to be able to succeed at, then they succeed. There's no reason to have the character make a roll, if he's a surgeon, to see if a standard or even a tough operation is successful. The surgeon should only have to roll if its an extremely risky or experimental surgery, or there is some other factor creating an intense situation of risk where there might be a chance of failure.

In other words, its in moments of crisis that the gnomes strike.

(Emphasis mine)

Who would have thought Vincent Baker would influence the game design of his sworn enemy? Or is this Gnome Murdered game just a satirical poke at the storygame scene? I'm not really sure.

Quote from: pawsplay;352002I wonder why you feel your objection to gang rape is more morally relevant than a Christian's objection to depictions of satanic possession.

This is trolling pure and simple.

so ron edwards is a uf grad, huh? go gators...

Quote from: boulet;352003Appearances can be deceptive. Even Pundit has been converted to "say yes or throw the dice".



(Emphasis mine)

Who would have thought Vincent Baker would influence the game design of his sworn enemy? Or is this Gnome Murdered game just a satirical poke at the storygame scene? I'm not really sure.

I guess you'll have to keep guessing, then.

RPGPundit

Quote from: pawsplay;352002No, I mean that garou commonly reproduce by nonconsensual sex with humans and wolves.

And yet many people don't find this objectionable ? Why ? Could it be because this really isn't the focus of the game ? It's inclusion merely a reflection of the dark bestial pyschosexual nature of werewolf mythology ? (Much like the creation of Half Orcs etc) Y'know your argument is basically that people shouldn't object to the subject of rape because it happens in many other games. The problem here is you're ignoring context and intent. I think most rational people know the difference. You made a good point about people looking for things to offend them. I think you're on dodgy predictable ground here.

Regards,
David R

'Twas me.

Don't be stupid, pawsplay. There's a difference between

"this vile thing exists in the game setting, but we don't roleplay it," and

"this vile thing exists in the game setting, and not only do we roleplay it, but it's the whole point of the thing."

Half-orcs are supposed to be mostly the result of a male orc raping a female human. But when someone has a half-orc PC, they don't roleplay out Daddy raping Mummy. It happened somewhere off-screen in the past.

You know this, stop being a cocksmock.

Quote from: pawsplay;352002No, I mean that garou commonly reproduce by nonconsensual sex with humans and wolves.

No, they really don't.  If you mean the transmission of the curse in classic literature, that would still be an incredible stretch.  To the breaking point, in fact.

QuoteI wonder why you feel your objection to gang rape is more morally relevant than a Christian's objection to depictions of satanic possession.

Because Satanic possessions aren't real?

I mean, honestly, if you are trying this hard to make a connection between fantasy role playing and gang rape, you aren't arguing in good faith in the least.  Play Devil's Advocate elsewhere.  It's not clever, it's not original, and in case you missed it earlier, Reckall had his shit handed to him on rye bread over his attempts.