This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: The Role of Maps in Your Games  (Read 928 times)

Coriolis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • C
  • Posts: 4
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« on: December 09, 2016, 12:10:00 PM »
Hello everyone. I'm new to the boards here, having been steered this way by an acquaintance.

A few years ago, while writing a novel manuscript, I got into making maps, and I just kept making them. Here's the most recent map that I've made. (You can see it in full definition here)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]589[/ATTACH]
You can see many of my other maps here.
I've been an owner and fan of 7 different RPGs since 1991. In almost all of these creations, I saw a lot of detail poured into art in general, but relatively little put into the maps, which generally seemed to have enough detail to support the text and no more. Since I took up cartography, I've had some paid commissions for fans of the Palladium Fantasy RPG, and got one of my maps published in the Palladium Fantasy sourcebook, Bizantium and the Northern Isles. I've also made some maps for the Rifts RPG. I've been doing some thinking about this hobby, and where I'd like to take it. That's where I'd like to engage a wider RPG community.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on RPG maps. How do you use maps in your games, whether you're running them or playing a character? What do you like to see in your RPG maps? Are you partial to using world maps, regional maps, or tactical/dungeon maps? Do you prefer to keep your maps bound within your books, or do you prefer them separate and loose? Would something like an atlas for your favorite RPGs interest you? Do you have a preference for digital copies vs printed maps? What styles of maps do you prefer?

Additionally, if you have the time to look at my art, I'd love to get some perspectives on what works, what doesn't, and how I might improve my products.

In any case, thanks for reading this, and have a great day!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 12:11:39 PM by Coriolis »

estar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10065
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2016, 12:34:11 PM »
Welcome to the board. You got a couple of mapmakers here on the board including myself.

That is a very nice artistic map of the British Isle.

On my part I done some color maps for publication

[ATTACH=CONFIG]590[/ATTACH]

A map for my Majestic Wilderlands campaign

[ATTACH=CONFIG]591[/ATTACH]

Black and White maps
[ATTACH=CONFIG]592[/ATTACH]

Poetic Maps
[ATTACH=CONFIG]593[/ATTACH]

One the best maps is one of the City State of the Invincible Overlord I made for the Judges Guild Kickstarter.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]594[/ATTACH]

I am more of a cartographer than an artist. I don't have much in the way of drawing skills as far as still life or figure drawing goes. I learned to use shapes, colors and textures to put maps together and rely on symbol set that I buy for stuff like the peotic maps.

estar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10065
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2016, 12:39:59 PM »
Also back in the day when my original Judges Guild maps were being worn out, I redrew them. For example this City State map. Not professional quality but the advent of digital technology allowed me to overcome that issue.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]595[/ATTACH]

If you see that it looks different from the Judges Guild map you are right. When I redrew I "fixed"  it which is why I write about the Majestic Wilderlands and not the Wilderlands of High Fantasy. The original is great but my take grew to be something related but different.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 17093
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2016, 07:33:06 PM »
How does this count as an advertisement? The OP isnt soliciting commissions?

Coriolis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • C
  • Posts: 4
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 10:57:35 PM »
Quote from: Omega;934429
How does this count as an advertisement? The OP isnt soliciting commissions?
I thought I put this in the general discussion forums; I suppose an admin thought I was trying to get some business and moved it here.

I guess I put too much personal introductory stuff into the OP. Looking back at it now, I could see how it might seem like an ad at first glance, especially since this was my first post (good admins have to watch out for spam-type posts), and the fact that it started with an example of my work and a quick bio. Maybe I should have simply stuck with the questions and not provided any personal context at all.

My purpose was to solicit opinions and perspectives in order to understand what sorts of maps are most useful in an RPG context, so that I might adjust my approach. Most of the RPGs I'm familiar with are 30ish years old and have maps that seem like an afterthought, and I was (and am) curious about what RPG fans expect and what they'd like in their maps.

Would I get in trouble for trying again?

Opaopajr

  • SeƱor Wences
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7768
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2016, 09:17:39 AM »
I LOVES maps!

More partial to world and regional than tactical maps. Dungeons can be a region... :) Don't like big, unfurling maps chopped up and bound in books. Makes me wanna throw my shoe at someone. Big beautiful maps should be like driving maps; unfurled, too large with wonder to easily fold back neatly, and chock-a-bloc with "whazzat!? I wanna see it!"

Love printed maps, but they become precious over the years as they are easy casualties to clutter and house cleaning. Digital copies are nice, but it's also like enjoying a nice juicy steak after your mouth has been slathered in Novacaine. The sexy unfurling and pouring over is reduced to pinching and scrolling. PDF everything is utilitarian, but god, if I just can't be bothered to draw them up; they are so not, tactile...

Anyway, welcome to the site, and come post elsewhere! We are a bit rough and tumble, but what's the worst that can happen? :D
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

abcd_z

  • Newbie
  • *
  • a
  • Posts: 46
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2016, 06:28:15 PM »
I'm gonna go against the flow here and say I think traditional maps are overrated.  Areas with complicated topography can be difficult to verbally convey to the players without just giving them a copy of the map, which I prefer not to do.

Instead, I rely on pointcrawl maps.  I treat each area as a node and each connection between it an edge.  It might not be quite as fun to create, but it's perfect for verbally conveying information to the players.

Examples:  

https://i.imgur.com/cpJ4VcF.png

http://www.ironrealms.com/sites/default/files/zork-1-map.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pHI3KLf.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xFuBPa9r100/TwxRdcgc5oI/AAAAAAAAD6g/X8cdD6Z39V0/s1600/scan0001.jpg

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14805
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2016, 07:47:01 PM »
For fantasy games, I do not like maps that look like Google satellite images. Instead, I prefer maps that look like they were made by cartographers of that age. I look to maps for inspiration, not exactness.

For CoC, I would not be interested in a map of Boston 1922. However, if you had a map of mass murder sites in Boston, I would be interested. It's context of what I can use at the game table that interests me.

Coriolis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • C
  • Posts: 4
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2016, 09:28:34 PM »
Quote from: abcd_z;934523
I'm gonna go against the flow here and say I think traditional maps are overrated.  Areas with complicated topography can be difficult to verbally convey to the players without just giving them a copy of the map, which I prefer not to do.

Instead, I rely on pointcrawl maps.  I treat each area as a node and each connection between it an edge.  It might not be quite as fun to create, but it's perfect for verbally conveying information to the players.

I know exactly what you mean. Revealing too much at once can be a bad thing, though it can also be fun to have the characters discover a map, and hand them a big, pretty one (This happened with a map that a guy commissioned me to do, and I was lucky enough to be there to see the big reveal). One way that I work around this is to produce multiple versions of the maps I make, so that the guy running the game (do people here say GM, DM, host, or what?) can include what he wants. The three baseline versions I generally make are a bare geography version with no labels or markings, a natural geography version with significant features labeled, and a political geography version.

Pointcrawl is an interesting approach that I haven't seen done in practice. On one hand, I suppose it makes games more manageable by steering the players into a controlled set of options. On the other hand, some of the best adventures I've seen are ones where the players take things in a totally unanticipated direction, requiring the game controller person (seriously, what's the nomenclature here?) to improvise, and a good traditional map can be a useful aid in such cases.

Coriolis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • C
  • Posts: 4
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2016, 09:37:47 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;934526
For fantasy games, I do not like maps that look like Google satellite images. Instead, I prefer maps that look like they were made by cartographers of that age. I look to maps for inspiration, not exactness.

For CoC, I would not be interested in a map of Boston 1922. However, if you had a map of mass murder sites in Boston, I would be interested. It's context of what I can use at the game table that interests me.

For me, it depends on the flavor of the fantasy. I've done many fantasy maps in the style above with the idea that some sort of magical process is involved in producing the map, such as the map given to the kings and queens of Narnia in the Voyage of the Dawn Treader book.

I'm not sure what CoC is (and I'd be afraid to say what that acronym sounds like at work), but I like to at least have one "kitchen sink" map that includes everything I can squeeze in. The example I posted at the top is one such; I've also been thinking of posting a version that focuses on ancient stone circles and megalithic structures around Britain. Making maps that are that specific is wonderful for a single campaign, but may be less so for someone who's looking for a game of a different flavor in the same sandbox.

abcd_z

  • Newbie
  • *
  • a
  • Posts: 46
The Role of Maps in Your Games
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2016, 11:02:28 PM »
Quote from: Coriolis;934536
Pointcrawl is an interesting approach that I haven't seen done in practice. On one hand, I suppose it makes games more manageable by steering the players into a controlled set of options. On the other hand, some of the best adventures I've seen are ones where the players take things in a totally unanticipated direction, requiring the game controller person (seriously, what's the nomenclature here?) to improvise, and a good traditional map can be a useful aid in such cases.

The term is Game Master (GM), though if you're playing D&D you can also use the term Dungeon Master (DM).

I don't think it's any harder to improvise with a pointcrawl map than it is with a traditional map. In some ways, it can be even easier with a pointcrawl.  For example, your players go, "let's poison the goblin horde.  Where do they keep their food?" but you didn't have such a room on the map. With traditional mapping techniques it can be very difficult to add a new room.  In a best-case scenario you can grab an existing room and repurpose it for your needs, but that won't always be an option.  With pointcrawl maps you can just add an extra node and connect it wherever it would be appropriate.