There's been argument over if you should fudge rolls, when to fudge them and everything from calls of cheating to saving the story.  My latest blog post states that fudging doesn't actually exist and implores GMs not to be enslaved by their dice:

http://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2017/04/theres-no-such-thing-as-fudging.html

Thanks for reading, sharing, and commenting!

VS

If you are so sure that it makes everything better for all participiants do it in the open and be prepared to fold to a veto.
Everything else is just cheating.

Argue that fudging should be called something else if you like[1], but to claim that nobody ever pretends a die rolled a different number than it actually rolled is asinine.  Whether you consider doing so to be good, bad, ugly, or utterly indifferent is entirely beside the point.  It does exist.

[1] ...but note that "fudge" is also commonly used as a euphemism for "fuck" or "shit"; it's not just something delicious, even outside of gaming

Bad.

I don't fudge the dice rolls and roll everything in the open.

However, I might miscalculate a Special or Critical score, forget that an NPC has a certain spell, miss out an attack in combat, forget that a PC has been poisoned and wait 4 or 5 rounds for it to take effect rather than waiting 3 rounds and so on. Not really fudging, but managing the combat.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.

As a GM I feel like I'm cheating the Players if I pull punches or fudge dice or use any of the 'quantum ogre' shenanigans. Not to say I haven't done it, but I felt bad about it and resolved to avoid doing it again.
Same thing as a Player. I was in a game where the GM as much as admitted he was helping us 'because it makes a better story'... which was a big part of why I quit that group.
It undercuts moments of actual astounding success or luck... it paves over the freaky random events I like so much.

Quote from: AsenRG;957507Bad.

And now let me elaborate (apart from the mandatory "pretending it doesn't exist is beyond the pale") why that is so.

Fudging, quantum ogres and the like do one thing and one thing only: it helps the events on the table go closer to what the GM envisions (because of Reasons...that I don't care about).
That, to me, is strictly a bad thing! Why?
Because we're there to play and find out what happens...

We're not there to play and find out what the GM wants to happen (possibly due to a scenario), what the Storyteller thinks (often mistakenly, may I add) would make for a better story, nor are we there to find what the GM thinks would make for a better challenge!

If I want to find out what the GM wants, I'd ask him or her. I'm not going to spend a session discovering it...the session is to find out what happens in-game. I know, I know - I just recommended the nearly-forgotten, ancient art of Speaking Like Adults. Thou shalt endeavour to master it, too!
I also have my own ideas about what makes for a better story. And if there's no challenge, it just might be because I played at strategy to ensure victory!
So, fuck those other considerations, too:)!

As stated above, if you need to do fudging, or related practices, find a better system or learn to be a better Referee. Because fudging is a sign at least one of these sucks:D!

Granted, as a Referee, I might mistakenly roll more or less dice, estimate the critical range wrong, forget the monster had a spell, or a host of other things. But that's not intentional. I'm human, and I do make mistakes!
Or sometimes, I know the right solution, but my estimation of the NPCs' personality is that he or she would make that mistake - because of greed, pride, lust, mistaken perceptions about the PCs' abilities, being mislead by the PCs, or what not.
As an aside, Pendragon makes such estimations even easier, but you can always make them without the NPCs having Passion scores, too.
Again, neither of these is fudging - one of them is the GM not being a machine, the other is picking a sub-optimal solution because of in-game reasons;). They're just things that look similarly, but they just happen.

Quote from: soltakss;957509I don't fudge the dice rolls and roll everything in the open.

However, I might miscalculate a Special or Critical score, forget that an NPC has a certain spell, miss out an attack in combat, forget that a PC has been poisoned and wait 4 or 5 rounds for it to take effect rather than waiting 3 rounds and so on. Not really fudging, but managing the combat.

For what's being discussed, all that you've described counts as "fudging."

VS

Quote from: Justin Alexander;957610First: Whatever your opinion on rolling the dice and then pretending the result was something other than what you actually rolled might be, pretending that the entire concept doesn't exist is idiotic.

Yes, that would be idiotic.  I'm not doing that.  My saying there's no such thing as fudging is part hyperbole, part denouncing the negative stereotype inherent in the word "fudge" or "fudging."

Quote from: Justin Alexander;957610My rule of thumb: The more you fudge, the shittier you are as a GM -- either because you are fudging or because you need to.

That is not to say that you should never fudge; but every time you do, you should view that as a failure and you should try to fix the underlying problem instead of just continuing to suck in perpetuity.

A narrow-minded attitude, and one that will forever keep you inside the box.

VS

Quote from: Simlasa;957612As a GM I feel like I'm cheating the Players if I pull punches or fudge dice or use any of the 'quantum ogre' shenanigans. Not to say I haven't done it, but I felt bad about it and resolved to avoid doing it again.
Same thing as a Player. I was in a game where the GM as much as admitted he was helping us 'because it makes a better story'... which was a big part of why I quit that group.
It undercuts moments of actual astounding success or luck... it paves over the freaky random events I like so much.

I enjoy those freaky random events, too.  Occasionally, I nudge things in order to increase or exaggerate them.

VS

Quote from: Justin Alexander;957610Laying that aside and turning to the actual topic of fudging, IME the practice is almost universally defended as the GM taking matters into their own hands in order to guarantee memorable outcomes that their players will enjoy.

And, to use the OP's own words, that's another form of enslavement. A GM enslaved-to-plot, without the free will to just let things go where they will, and see the results of actions. A GM that can't roll with changes or interpretations.

Fudging, to me, is not freeing or an example of thinking outside of the box. It's a combination of wearing a strait-jacket while tap-dancing. Routine fudging becomes a burden to deal with, and a distraction to GMing.

Quote from: K Peterson;957758And, to use the OP's own words, that's another form of enslavement. A GM enslaved-to-plot, without the free will to just let things go where they will, and see the results of actions. A GM that can't roll with changes or interpretations.

Fudging, to me, is not freeing or an example of thinking outside of the box. It's a combination of wearing a strait-jacket while tap-dancing. Routine fudging becomes a burden to deal with, and a distraction to GMing.

Yeah, that's a very good way of putting it:)!

Gotta disagree Venger. Fudging is wankery.

Random results keep me surprised as the GM. Otherwise, its just Story Hour.  

Novels and movies are for passive absorption of someone else's creation. RPGs are active creation.

If the randomness is flinging the game into an asteroid, its up to the PLAYERS to save the ship.

And what's the worst that happens? A TPK? Those are rare enough and often make great stories.

Also, if the players know you fudge, then they know their choices don't matter. They know you will fudge for or against them, and that saps energy from the game table. Its why the Living Campaigns mostly suck. The whole thing is a fudge to keep PCs alive on a 4 hour XP railroad because it sells splatbooks.

What's worst about fudging is that is sucks away the joy of victory.

When the players succeed against all odds - even if only one of the PC survives -  they rejoice.

But if they even suspect their victory was pre-ordained because of "fun", then its a hollow moment.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.