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Author Topic: Willow series  (Read 2181 times)

Ratman_tf

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Willow series
« on: November 30, 2022, 08:12:44 PM »
There will be spoilers in this thread, but please give it a few days for those catching up.

I've watched the first two episodes. I'm enjoying it. The writing feels like Willow. There are parts that feel really out of place, especially the character of Kit. She talks and acts like she's a modern American and not a character from a fantasy world.

Yes, for those of us wary of culture war identity poiltics bullshit, there's a gay kiss. I wouldn't even mention it, but here we are, where it's a talking point to pander to the woke idiots out there, instead of telling a good story. Thankfully, that's about the end of it. There hasn't been any condescening speeches or posturing.

So, after a couple of days, we can talk about spoilers, but I'm interested in everyone's first impressions. I'm fairly positive.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Svenhelgrim

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2022, 01:50:48 PM »
I read the first two books of the series written by Chris Claremont and they were great.  Sadly the third book took took its own sweet ass time to come out and I lost interest in the trilogy. 

If they can stay close to Claremont’s story, the series should be a success.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2022, 09:42:45 AM »
The series plot isn’t based on Claremont’s books. It’s an original plot.

I found the plot to be very derivative and generic. There are a few diverse/woke touches in the casting, but the writing is extremely cliche. Aside from the casting, the characters are still written as well-trod archetypes: the princess who isn’t satisfied with her arranged marriage, the loyal knight torn between contrasting oaths, the wise old mentor, the young chosen one who is ignorant of their destiny, the criminal rogue who is press ganged into joining the quest, the evil villains who do evil for inexplicable reasons, the princeling kidnapped by the villain for dark designs, etc.

But at least it’s not dripping with the obnoxious contempt for straight white males like She-Hulk was.

Thornhammer

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2022, 07:00:21 PM »
What in the actual, factual fuck is up with the end credit music?

Grognard GM

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2022, 07:30:40 PM »
Watching modern adaptions is like walking down the hallway with the school bully that always knocks your books out of your hands, but thinking "today I think he might give me a cookie instead!"

I stopped torturing myself/hate watching, years ago.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/

Ratman_tf

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2022, 08:06:24 PM »
What in the actual, factual fuck is up with the end credit music?

Yes, that's my least liked part of the series. It's like those 90's films that smash cut to a rock song.

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Ratman_tf

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2022, 08:18:39 PM »
Specifics for eps 1-2.

I don't like Kit. She's the prototypical whiny princess who don't wanna get arranged married. Bitching that they should marry whomever they want.
I do like that Sorscha dressed her down for being a petulant twat.
Beyond that, Ruby Cruz plays the character like a 2022 American dropped into a fantasy world. It's downright jarring.

Arik, I actually do like. Everyone takes him for a fluff head, but there's depth of character that peeks out at the appropriate moments.

Spoiler. I actually did not expect Dove/Brunhilde to be Elora Dannan. I mean, as soon as Willow walked up to her, I was like "Oh, yeah. Of course.".

The cliff scene. What the heck was that? It seemed like the scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where the perspective was forced to look like a much further drop, but they didn't really demonstrate that. It came off as a really tall cliff that just wasn't that tall in another scene...  ???

Willow. I'm dissapointed that he's not a sorcerer by now. He's still the pig farmer with a few stage tricks and a wand. Sorscha even says he'll never be a true sorcerer.
I hope this is a "setting up obstacles" moment.

I liked the de-aging CGI for the flashback scenes. Was it even CGI, or just makeup?

It's in an odd place. I can see this series going Hard Woke, but so far there's nothing that's too aggregious, or couldn't be taken as setup for future payoff. (Willow wanting to train Elora from an early age, Sorscha wanting to protect her...)
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Svenhelgrim

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2022, 08:30:57 PM »
Specifics for eps 1-2.

I don't like Kit. She's the prototypical whiny princess who don't wanna get arranged married. Bitching that they should marry whomever they want.
I do like that Sorscha dressed her down for being a petulant twat.
Beyond that, Ruby Cruz plays the character like a 2022 American dropped into a fantasy world. It's downright jarring.

Arik, I actually do like. Everyone takes him for a fluff head, but there's depth of character that peeks out at the appropriate moments.

Spoiler. I actually did not expect Dove/Brunhilde to be Elora Dannan. I mean, as soon as Willow walked up to her, I was like "Oh, yeah. Of course.".

The cliff scene. What the heck was that? It seemed like the scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where the perspective was forced to look like a much further drop, but they didn't really demonstrate that. It came off as a really tall cliff that just wasn't that tall in another scene...  ???

Willow. I'm dissapointed that he's not a sorcerer by now. He's still the pig farmer with a few stage tricks and a wand. Sorscha even says he'll never be a true sorcerer.
I hope this is a "setting up obstacles" moment.

I liked the de-aging CGI for the flashback scenes. Was it even CGI, or just makeup?

It's in an odd place. I can see this series going Hard Woke, but so far there's nothing that's too aggregious, or couldn't be taken as setup for future payoff. (Willow wanting to train Elora from an early age, Sorscha wanting to protect her...)

Is “Kit” the Katness-looking chick?  I thought the main character was supposed to be Elora Dannan, the baby from the original Willow movie?

Eirikrautha

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2022, 10:14:39 PM »
It's in an odd place. I can see this series going Hard Woke, but so far there's nothing that's too aggregious, or couldn't be taken as setup for future payoff.

What series are you watching?  The only male characters (other than Willow) are totally outshined by all of the women.  It so woke that the primary female characters can't even be in love with a man.  And Willow is being set up to be a spectator in his own series (Boba Fett, is that you?).  Every character we're supposed to like is a whiny, female, teenage narcissist, and the male characters are old, incapable, or "toxic" (how dare the prince like having sex with multiple women!  Only powerful women like She-Hulk are allowed to have sex without consequences).  This thing is so woke that it makes caffeine blush...

Grognard GM

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2022, 10:22:59 PM »
It's in an odd place. I can see this series going Hard Woke, but so far there's nothing that's too aggregious, or couldn't be taken as setup for future payoff.

What series are you watching?  The only male characters (other than Willow) are totally outshined by all of the women.  It so woke that the primary female characters can't even be in love with a man.  And Willow is being set up to be a spectator in his own series (Boba Fett, is that you?).  Every character we're supposed to like is a whiny, female, teenage narcissist, and the male characters are old, incapable, or "toxic" (how dare the prince like having sex with multiple women!  Only powerful women like She-Hulk are allowed to have sex without consequences).  This thing is so woke that it makes caffeine blush...

These shows and movies are meant to demoralize and normalize, and it's working. I regularly see things described as "not really woke" that would have been considered very woke 5 years ago.

Tolerance varies. Personally I'm totally burned out on it to where I can't watch new stuff because the first time I hear "have to work twice as hard as a white guy" or see a Detroit cop acting like a 1960's Deep South redneck Sheriff, I have to nope out.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2022, 10:28:26 PM »
These shows and movies are meant to demoralize and normalize, and it's working. I regularly see things described as "not really woke" that would have been considered very woke 5 years ago.

Tolerance varies. Personally I'm totally burned out on it to where I can't watch new stuff because the first time I hear "have to work twice as hard as a white guy" or see a Detroit cop acting like a 1960's Deep South redneck Sheriff, I have to nope out.

Yup. Many people give in just to get new content.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2022, 10:31:56 PM »
Specifics for eps 1-2.

I don't like Kit. She's the prototypical whiny princess who don't wanna get arranged married. Bitching that they should marry whomever they want.
I do like that Sorscha dressed her down for being a petulant twat.
Beyond that, Ruby Cruz plays the character like a 2022 American dropped into a fantasy world. It's downright jarring.

Arik, I actually do like. Everyone takes him for a fluff head, but there's depth of character that peeks out at the appropriate moments.

Spoiler. I actually did not expect Dove/Brunhilde to be Elora Dannan. I mean, as soon as Willow walked up to her, I was like "Oh, yeah. Of course.".

The cliff scene. What the heck was that? It seemed like the scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where the perspective was forced to look like a much further drop, but they didn't really demonstrate that. It came off as a really tall cliff that just wasn't that tall in another scene...  ???

Willow. I'm dissapointed that he's not a sorcerer by now. He's still the pig farmer with a few stage tricks and a wand. Sorscha even says he'll never be a true sorcerer.
I hope this is a "setting up obstacles" moment.

I liked the de-aging CGI for the flashback scenes. Was it even CGI, or just makeup?

It's in an odd place. I can see this series going Hard Woke, but so far there's nothing that's too aggregious, or couldn't be taken as setup for future payoff. (Willow wanting to train Elora from an early age, Sorscha wanting to protect her...)

Is “Kit” the Katness-looking chick?  I thought the main character was supposed to be Elora Dannan, the baby from the original Willow movie?

Yes. And I thought the main character was supposed to be the one the series is named after.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Grognard GM

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2022, 10:44:25 PM »
These shows and movies are meant to demoralize and normalize, and it's working. I regularly see things described as "not really woke" that would have been considered very woke 5 years ago.

Tolerance varies. Personally I'm totally burned out on it to where I can't watch new stuff because the first time I hear "have to work twice as hard as a white guy" or see a Detroit cop acting like a 1960's Deep South redneck Sheriff, I have to nope out.

Yup. Many people give in just to get new content.

I have a friend who is the walking personification of "Don't ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next product." I'm talking every Disney and WB's movie and show, every (ugh) CW show. Slap an IP on it, and he eats it up, defends it, then tries to get others to "enjoy" it.

He's a really nice fella, good to game or talk lore with, but his "must see" Evangelicalism can be annoying, and his taste is utter dog shit.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/

Ratman_tf

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2022, 10:45:15 PM »
It's in an odd place. I can see this series going Hard Woke, but so far there's nothing that's too aggregious, or couldn't be taken as setup for future payoff.

What series are you watching?  The only male characters (other than Willow) are totally outshined by all of the women.

What series are you watching? Boorman has been shown to be just as competent, plus he's got more experience than the others, to where he's slapped down some of the idealism of the young characters.

Quote
It so woke that the primary female characters can't even be in love with a man.

Wat? Where did the show demonstrate that she can't be in love with a man? Her objection was to an arranged marriage.

Quote
And Willow is being set up to be a spectator in his own series (Boba Fett, is that you?).

That I'm worried about. I expected Willow to have become an accomplished sorcerer. But then, they also de-powered Elora Dannan to the point where she can't even cast a beginner spell, and Willow believes she's lost her aptitude for magic at all.

Quote
Every character we're supposed to like is a whiny, female, teenage narcissist,

I'm not sure we're supposed to like them. Like I said, Sorscha berated Kit for being a petulant child.

Quote
and the male characters are old, incapable, or "toxic" (how dare the prince like having sex with multiple women!  Only powerful women like She-Hulk are allowed to have sex without consequences).  This thing is so woke that it makes caffeine blush...

Again, wat? The problem they had wasn't that the prince liked having sex with multiple women. The problem was they questioned his ability to "settle down" with just one.

Some of your criticisms I agree with, but others seem like you're jumping at woke shadows.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 10:47:45 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Grognard GM

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Re: Willow series
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2022, 10:50:35 PM »
I expected Willow to have become an accomplished sorcerer. But then, they also de-powered Elora Dannan to the point where she can't even cast a beginner spell, and Willow believes she's lost her aptitude for magic at all.

That's every sequel of the past decade. Every hero that finished the movie or series as a hopeful winner, poised to right wrongs, is revealed to now be washed up and a failure. Only new DELUXO-BRAND tick box cardboard hero can clean up the shit the stupid old person left behind them.

Cue old hero turning evil, or dying pointlessly, once the cameo used for the trailer is over.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/