Quote from: GRIMBill, it isn't the same thing as the Piper Fitters deciding to smash your head in, or whatever, because the Piper Fitter's charter doesn't say in its clauses and membership details 'Thou shalt dash Grim's head in with a monkeywrench' while religious texts DO contain many such intructions.

Wow, you rank high on the scale man!

Do not get me wrong, I understand and admit the limitations of organized religion. That is not what I started this thread about but it is where we are wondering into.

So, I find most religions (especially Christian ones) to be pretty intolerant if their writings are strictly interpreted. The problem is, most times they are not unless they serve the purposes of the ones controlling the interpretations.

Religions evolve too. I do not know how many countries would answer the call of the Pope to invade the holy lands today. Sure, probably some Catholics would answer but I do not think the Pope would risk it.

Again, I come back to people doing the crimes. No argument that a social group can be a useful tool and in terms of social groups organized religion is the big boy.

Individuals are responsible for their actions.

Bill

Quote from: GRIMI would still argue that this was due to prevalent religious opinion biasing both results and interpretation of those results.

ahh, people influencing the results of experiments.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltahh, people influencing the results of experiments.

"You can criticise me, but never speak poorly of The Programme!"
- Homer Simpson

Anyway, I'm sidetracking your intent, so I'll shurrup now, until something else comes up

Quote from: HinterWeltHowever, I think many religions would be non-existent at this point if such commandments were not in place.

That's pretty telling in itself, i think. What you're basically saying is that without people preaching, there would be little religion in the world. To me, that says that the basic tenets of the world's reigions aren't enough on their own to sway peoples beliefs, and that an outside agent is required to do that. That sort of rules out the leap of faith thing wouldn't you say and more properly approaches conditioning?

QuoteInteresting perspective from your niece. How old is she? That seems very insightful.

Bill

16

Quote from: Zachary The FirstBoobs, gaming.  Possibly a mix of the two.

Now *that's* a topic I fully support!  For the record, I like boobs and I like games.  

Discuss.


TGA

Quote from: One Horse TownThat's pretty telling in itself, i think. What you're basically saying is that without people preaching, there would be little religion in the world. To me, that says that the basic tenets of the world's reigions aren't enough on their own to sway peoples beliefs, and that an outside agent is required to do that. That sort of rules out the leap of faith thing wouldn't you say and more properly approaches conditioning?

Sorry, what I meant was not as prevalent or large. That is to say, I believe you would have thousands of religions local to the common pub. Religion, I have found, gives people reassurances that when they die, it is not for good. Churches adopt religions to provide social structures. So, if it was not witnessed to other tribes, a religion would either spread real slow or not at all.

Again, just a whacky theory and it might well be wrong.

Bill

Quote from: One Horse TownThat's pretty telling in itself, i think. What you're basically saying is that without people preaching, there would be little religion in the world. To me, that says that the basic tenets of the world's reigions aren't enough on their own to sway peoples beliefs, and that an outside agent is required to do that.

Oh come on.  The book on the library shelf that you never read will never convince you, no matter how strong and perfect its tenets.

Religion certainly isn't alone in being an idea that will not on its own convince anyone.  That's pretty much every idea, anywhere, ever.

I think that attempting to argue people out of religion is futile. Religion is a response to the world as it is, and if you want to get rid of religion you must first change the world.

Quote from: droogI think that attempting to argue people out of religion is futile. Religion is a response to the world as it is, and if you want to get rid of religion you must first change the world.

I think you would need to go even further and change mortality and the basis of being human.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltI think you would need to go even further and change mortality and the basis of being human.

Bill

Now there I don't agree, or else we would all be religious.

Quote from: droogNow there I don't agree, or else we would all be religious.

huh? I meant if you wanted to rid get of religion you would have to change what humans are.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWelthuh? I meant if you wanted to get of religion you would have to change what humans are.

Bill

There's a monster debate lurking here about what humans really are, but for now I'll just repeat that i don't agree.

Quote from: James McMurrayAs the husband of a wonderfullly endowed woman, I can tell you that great boobs + gaming = Heaven on Earth. And no amount of atheist progandizing will convince me otherwise.

I'll chime in on that.

Quote from: TonyLBOh come on.  The book on the library shelf that you never read will never convince you, no matter how strong and perfect its tenets.

Religion certainly isn't alone in being an idea that will not on its own convince anyone.  That's pretty much every idea, anywhere, ever.

I never said otherwise Tony. For ideas to move and be adopted needs people. People are far from perfect.

As far as the real debate goes, i'm with hinterwelt. Religion gives hope that death is not the end. A laudible goal in a time when the common man faced drudgery and disease for his 30 odd years on this earth. A laudible goal now as well. However, i can do without the trappings. If i want to believe or not believe, i'll do it in my own way and in my own time.

Quote from: HinterWelthuh? I meant if you wanted to get of religion you would have to change what humans are.

Bill

Replace it with boobs and gaming.

Or a nice tight butt if that's your thang.