Quote from: HinterWeltI believe, very strongly, you reap what you sow.

Very true Bill, but the question here I think is, has the Pundit done anything to fuck with free speech ? IMO, no.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RVery true Bill, but the question here I think is, has the Pundit done anything to fuck with free speech ? IMO, no.

Regards,
David R

See, I believe that is the stated question, but the motivation is a sense of attack on all sides by Pundit. He has phrased his question such that you are forced to agree. For instance, he offers unacceptible candidates for his replacement when the obvious choice, Jeff, is at hand. An excellent example of disingenuous debate.

So, to the point, has he done anything to abridge free speech by use of his moderator powers? No, and I admit as much.  He has threatened to ban three people. Nox, I cannot fault. The blame lies as much with Nox as others. However, Lev and James, this seems little more than not being able to take it and having the power to ban. Note, he did not ban them but he did use his powers to threaten it. I cannot do that, nor has anyone else been afforded his protection.

So, technically, no, but I do believe the issue runs much deeper than that.

Bill

Quote from: David RVery true Bill, but the question here I think is, has the Pundit done anything to fuck with free speech ? IMO, no.

Regards,
David R

Has he fucked with the idea that posters should be able to say whatever they want? Well, if you count banning as the most definitive form of shutting someone up here it has been bandied about.  It should be noted that aside from the example of Nox, who was a de facto detriment to the site by carrying some generally offensive opinions that he wouldn't stay quiet about, the rest of the people that I can recall who have been threatened with sanctions have had directly to do with their negative relationship with Pundit.

Pundit, If you're gonna have big contentious opinions, you have to be ready and able to take the heat for it. I'm just glad you haven't banned anyone yet because of it.

In other words, what Bill said.

It should also be pointed out that John Wick was hounded out of here and Grubman, for a short while, by other posters, not the pundido. Let him without sin and all that...

Quote from: One Horse TownIt should also be pointed out that John Wick was hounded out of here and Grubman, for a short while, by other posters, not the pundido. Let him without sin and all that...

If someone gets chased out by a snarky mob, that can be pretty shitty, but it's not the same thing as someone who actually has the power to prevent someone from logging in.

Quote from: HinterWeltSo, technically, no, but I do believe the issue runs much deeper than that.

This reply is also to JamesV.

Yes the deeper issue is : Do we really want someone like the Pundit running this board?

Now, as far as I'm concerned, the job he is doing so far is good. Whatever problems I may have with his rhetoric I'll deal with whenever the mood suits me most probably in the rpg section of this forum.

Regards,
David R

Well, I come here for the stuff about gaming, mostly. The stuff about posters hating each other and shouting about it? Could do without. The stuff where posters who hate each other snipe each other in gaming related threads? Could really do without.

I'm glad Nox isn't here. If someone is that disruptive and doesn't contribute, I care less about free speech than about reading about gaming. I can say whatever on my blog if I really need to vent... good info on RPGs? Hard to find. The real difficulty here I guess is that the people who are being disruptive also post interesting and constructive stuff. You could let this keep going, and threads will have pages of flames to go through to get to the good stuff... or you could ban people and there wouldn't be so many threads with stuff wort looking at. If there were an option that would lead to less arguing and more constructive posts, I'd go for it. But the constructive and disruptive aren't clearly dilineated. If they were, I'd have just ILed a couple folks and that'd be the end of it.

My advice? Stir less shit. The vitriol is just an invitation for the flames that lead to any need to ban people. And to others, call him on his shit when its shit. When something's okay, don't mention "but you said this in such and such a place." I think it was Jimbob that said something to the effect of that two people could agree in one thread and disagree in another that was good, and that letting shit bleed from one thread to the next was a big part of the problem.

My point is... do I have a point? I guess I support whatever gets us back to talking about gaming.

My point is, it dosn't feel to ME like the board is BEING "run" by anyone. He's just another sometimes interesting, sometimes annoying poster, near as I can tell. Until such time as he starts using his "power" to actually ACT like a mod, then anyone feeling constrained by his attitude is putting those constraints on themself. HE hasn't stoped you from saying, thinking, or feeling any damn thing you please, so why is it a point of contention about who "owns" the site?

Or am I just not being hyper-sensitive enough?

Personally, I think you should do two things:

1. Make the following part of a sticky, the rules, etc.: "fighting and arguing with me: won't get you in trouble. trying to harm the site or part of the site itself just to get back at me: will get you in trouble."

2. Care less. People are going to bitch and moan. You only get to control your response to it. You can run around trying to defend yourself against every allegation of censorship or you can be happy.

Seanchai

Quote from: One Horse TownIt should also be pointed out that John Wick was hounded out of here and Grubman, for a short while, by other posters, not the pundido. Let him without sin and all that...

Not to mention the whole Nox business.

Seanchai

Pundit, you're doing fine. But you need to lighten up a bit, and develop a thicker skin. People will give you shit. So what? It comes with being a mod. Just chill out and relax a bit more; you'll feel better. :keke:

Quote from: David RYes the deeper issue is : Do we really want someone like the Pundit running this board?

Here's the bottom line: Do you really have a choice? Aside from leaving, that is.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiHere's the bottom line: Do you really have a choice? Aside from leaving, that is.

Yeah. And also has it reached the point where this question even needs to be asked.

Regards,
David R

Pundit is a moderator.  That means, by pure right of his position, that his behavior is going to come down as if from an authority position.  Even more so on a board where the primary method of moderation is simply through puplic admonishment.

If you've got a problem with that, then tough shit, and I'll be sure to remind you of that problem next time everyone jumps on the "Let's bitch about Darren or Curt from RPGnet" bandwagon again.

Now, when that moderator voice is constantly attacking anyone who shows the slightest sign of wrong think, interrogating users like it's the House Subcommittee on Un-American Activities, accusing everyone and anyone who disagrees with him or he sees as a threat to his authority of "conspiracy", constantly waving around the "You should be lucky I haven't banned you!" flag, or the "You should be lucky I didn't completely ban you, I 'only' fucked with your account" he waves after he's done with whatever petty shit he's pulling lately, or the "public consultations" that he makes clear have zero fucking effect on any of his decisions, and only serve to act as yet more threats to users he doesn't like.

I mean come on people.  Pry your lips off Pundit's ass for a second and ask yourself how you'd respond if the moderator of any other fucking board on the planet behaved the same way.  

I do give a shit where this site is going, and right now the biggest threat to the "free speech" this site claimed to be about when I signed on, is the man upstairs waving the banhammer around pretty frivolously, waiting only for the moment when his paranoia and insanity overcome his pride and he really starts backing this shit up.  

And the more people trickle in here from other sites elsewhere, the more varying viewpoints drift in that don't mesh with his approved set of opinions, the more psychotic his behavior is going to get, and he'll just keep throwin' that weight around all the more.

this is a game site, so is (was?) RPG.net... why there has to be a discussion about "free speech" is beyond me, just talk about games...