In the long term, economic devastation might be a good thing for iran. Under the shah, they had access to western culture and such, the problem was the shah was a tyrannical secular despot who ruled with an iron fist but allowed the people some cultural freedom and access to western goods.

They tossed him out and got a tyrannical theocractic regime that was even more repressive and oppressiven than the shah, and didn;t allow them any cultural freedom. In other words they went from a bad secular dictatorship to an even worse islamofascist one.

Young iranians listen to their parents talk about the shah's regime, and it's the good old days as far as their concerned.

I've heard that the iranian hardliners are actually paying foreign islamic hardliners to come in and keep order as so much of the populace is dissatiffied with the current reime in iran. Now, if the west were to cripple iran's economy, espcially after the government provoked it with kidnapping western sailors, it might make it impossible for the hardliners to pay enough thugs to stay in power and their system could collapse.

Now, hopefully the iranian masses won't let another hardliner islamofascist regime replace it, so they end up with a more tolerable regime, and the west ends up with a more tolerable, less dangerous, iran.*

So yes,  using this as a justification to seriously take down iran might be best for everyone.


*Of course there's no gurantee that the iranians won't let another islamofascist terrorist reime take over. But if they're stupid or weak enough to le that happen again after decades of ther current regime then we should just  bomb them back to the stone age.

Quote from: John MorrowWith Israel sitting on around 200-300 nuclear weapons, how do you think this is going to end when Iran goes nuclear if something else doesn't budge first?

Good to hear that the "hostage"  situation is already being thought of by some (not surprising) as a "something does not budge situation*". Israel should (and can) take care of it's own problems.

*With regards to Iran's nuke situation.

QuoteOriginally posted by Zalmoxis
Key infrastructure. Cripple the country.

Because this has already worked so well in the region.

Regards,
David R

Same thing we did last time:

Send a few pointed notes, rattle a few sabres, issue an insincere apology and get those men (and a woman this time) back

Edit: typo

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonSame thing we did last time:

Send a few pointed notes, rattle a few sabres, issue an insincere apology and get those men (and a woman this time) back

That's the ticket.


Edit: Hastur's typo.

Quote from: David RBecause this has already worked so well in the region.

Regards,
David R

Depends on what the goals are. If the goal is to take over a nation and move it towards democracy, bombing doesn't work so well. If the goal is to cripple a nation and cause chaos, bombing works smashingly.

hopefully they don't try a copter rescue again.  that only works in video games...

Quote from: kregmosierhopefully they don't try a copter rescue again.  that only works in video games...

Exsqueeze me! That was the Americans (and thank fuck they didn't follow it up with Operation Credible Sport (aka Operation Honey Badger - no I'm not joking), the plan to land three rocket-powered Hercules in a football stadium - and I'm not joking about that either)

When we do a helicopter-born operation, we just land our troops in the wrong place (and still complete the mission successfully)

As Iran knows quite well, we're already overextended in Iraq and Afghanistan so lack the forces to fight a third war.  The public lacks faith in the government (the letters pages of the paper this morning had letters openly questioning whether the government was telling the truth about where the boat was when captured, drawing explicit parallels with lies told in the run up to the Iraq war) and has no appetite for another fight.

In addition, America is currently holding without trial or access to consular officials five Iranian diplomats found in Northern Iraq, and of course the American public has no more appetite for a new war than the British.

And finally, both Britain and the US currently have lame duck leaders.

So, there's fuck all we can do.  That's why this has happened, because the Iranians know there is fuck all we can do.

We busted our flush on Iraq, we are now pretty much at the mercy of whatever the Iranians want to do.

Pork bombs. Find out where the sailors are being held and drop tons of shredded pork on everything.  Follow up with rescue troops who will then have free run of the streets as the enemy cowers in fear of accidentally touching the pork, and they will be able to move about unopposed right to where the prisoners are being held.

No one gets hurt, and the infrastructure is even left intact.

England will expect every man to do his duty.

-clash

Quote from: TechnomancerPork bombs. Find out where the sailors are being held and drop tons of shredded pork on everything.  Follow up with rescue troops who will then have free run of the streets as the enemy cowers in fear of accidentally touching the pork, and they will be able to move about unopposed right to where the prisoners are being held.

No one gets hurt, and the infrastructure is even left intact.

Brilliant!:D

It's true, we can't invade iran, but we sure as hell can bomb their vital facilities, their water plants, their government centers, their oil facilities, their bridges, their power plants, etc.

Forget negotiating with these fanatics, just tell them to release the hostages or else. No negotiation, no dealings, just "Do this or suffer the consequences."

If they kill the hostages, see to it that at least a thousand iranians die for each one of them.

You can't deal with fanatics like you would sane people, you can't deal with barbarians like they were civillized people.

Quote from: flyingmiceEngland will expect every man to do his duty.

One of them's a woman

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonOne of them's a woman

Well obviously.
Since we outlawed slavery, one can't expect to send fourteen chaps off alone in a small boat for hours on end and not have someone to make the tea, what?

I'm at a loss to explain what the captain of HMS Cornwall was doing during the kidnap.
If I was captain of a warship and got a report that a few miles away, fifteen of my crew were being taken prisoner, my first words would have been "All ahead flank" followed by "Battle stations."