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Author Topic: Were the Jedi celibate?  (Read 3474 times)

Shrieking Banshee

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2020, 09:12:08 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1129433
I agree about the chip thing. It's not enough that they had been genetically engineered to be loyal, and indoctrinated since childhood, they also had to have some kind of physical chip thing. That was dumb.

No to me the issue was if you could have a chip control them why bother with the mental conditioning stuff.

My problem was it took away the Jedis culpability. I like the idea being that all the clones loyalty was just mind control. They where only loyal to their conditioning and what the Jedi assumed otherwise was just wishfull thinking.When they where issued their new command they remained loyal to their conditioning ten times more.

This chip thing means that their loyalty programming didn't work. Its trying to cutsify a army of brainwashed drones.

Koltar

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2020, 10:00:10 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1129124


So, could Jedi get it on, as long as they didn't form an attachment?
Could Jedi form families? How did this affect alien Jedi who maybe had different ways of relating to their mates and offspring?


YES - see the TV show "Star Wars Rebels" - Kaanan Jarrus proved that Jedi could have romantic relationships and even sex without acting all stupid. His relationship with Captain Hera was 'adult' and mature in the right way.

Their imagined rules against 'attachments' were probably self destructive in many ways.

Anakin Skywalker was an obsessive sociopath - his stupidity does not prove anything about 'attachments' one way or the other. He was young, immature, and stupid.

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Ratman_tf

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2020, 10:15:09 PM »
Quote from: Koltar;1129440
YES - see the TV show "Star Wars Rebels" - Kaanan Jarrus proved that Jedi could have romantic relationships and even sex without acting all stupid. His relationship with Captain Hera was 'adult' and mature in the right way.

Their imagined rules against 'attachments' were probably self destructive in many ways.

Anakin Skywalker was an obsessive sociopath - his stupidity does not prove anything about 'attachments' one way or the other. He was young, immature, and stupid.

- Ed C.

Huh. I've watched Rebels, and I don't remember them having sex. And it's kinda too late for the Jedi Order to care at that point anyway.
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Lurkndog

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2020, 09:59:23 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1129433
I agree about the chip thing. It's not enough that they had been genetically engineered to be loyal, and indoctrinated since childhood, they also had to have some kind of physical chip thing. That was dumb.


I thought the chip made sense. Yes they were brought up to be loyal, but they were brought up to be loyal to the Jedi, who were their commanders.

The chip was there to make them turn on the Jedi.

Shrieking Banshee

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2020, 10:44:40 AM »
Quote from: Lurkndog;1129480
Yes they were brought up to be loyal, but they were brought up to be loyal to the Jedi, who were their commanders.

They where not and it makes no sense that they would be. This whole thing was orchastrated by Palpatine, and it makes no sense for him to create an army that was loyal to the people he wanted gone. This 'Loyalty to the Jedi' thing was a thing never specified and only implied later in clone wars and rebels.
The Clones where Loyal to the republic. And when they recieved the command 'Jedi B gone' they where flushed out like turds in a bowl.

The chip thing is dumb because if that could be applied to clones, why wouldn't it be applied to almost every Trooper ever? Its a lazy copout.

Armchair Gamer

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2020, 08:27:29 PM »
Quote from: HappyDaze;1129386
One of the Legends novels featured a Jedi that fucked one of her clone troopers.


Written by a writer who hates the Jedi and most of the OT heroes.

Koltar

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2020, 12:30:27 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1129443
Huh. I've watched Rebels, and I don't remember them having sex. And it's kinda too late for the Jedi Order to care at that point anyway.

Between episodes or during commercial breaks - there are plenty of hints that they did. Also, apologies on the spoiler - but according to the last episode of the series he and Hera conceived a child before he died - look again at the final scenes of the last episode of Season 4.

Also, Black & White movies in the 1950s you would see two characters kiss and hold each other, then they fade to black. Next time we see the two characters they are adjusting clothing or giving each other knowing looks - yes, we are suppose to realize they made love off screen - same thing with the show "Rebels".

- Ed C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

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HappyDaze

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2020, 06:19:06 AM »
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1129520
Written by a writer who hates the Jedi and most of the OT heroes.

Still, she was a paid writer for the IP regardless of those feelings.

Orphan81

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2020, 08:34:14 PM »
During the Prequel era and the Old Republic, sexual relationships and romantic attachments were strictly forbidden among the Jedi. The Jedi in particular forbid relationships because not only was it about attachments, but to prevent Force dynasties from being formed.

The Jedi are supposed to be the equivalent of Shaolin Monks. You're a bad ass Kung Fu master dedicated to the greater good. The novels and expanded material set after the original Trilogy has the Jedi form families and the like.

Personally, I prefer my Jedi Celibate, like Shaolin monks who have become enlightened and given up their attachments to the world in order to serve the Greater Good.

And yes, the Light Side IS stronger than the Dark side. The Dark side is just quicker and more selfish.

Shrieking Banshee

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2020, 09:51:31 PM »
Quote from: Orphan81;1129624
And yes, the Light Side IS stronger than the Dark side. The Dark side is just quicker and more selfish.

Only in a plot Armor Sense. The dark side has way more cool toys, has way more effects, and does more and is more easily prevalent. This is the end result of lots of lazy writing. No Light side user has ever made warp storms that ravage the galaxy. No Lightside user ever ressurected themselves. No lightside user could save a planet from destruction as a darkside user could consume one whole. The superpower of the light side is having protagonists use be set in it.

And 'Christian Knight vs Shoilin Monk' has always been a problematic element of Jedi it can't reconcile. Shoilin Monks generally stuck to themselves and detachment serves that well.
Christian Knights where active and crusadery and where not detached.

This mixed together as well as motor oil and jam.

Orphan81

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2020, 10:58:32 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1129629
Only in a plot Armor Sense. The dark side has way more cool toys, has way more effects, and does more and is more easily prevalent. This is the end result of lots of lazy writing. No Light side user has ever made warp storms that ravage the galaxy. No Lightside user ever ressurected themselves. No lightside user could save a planet from destruction as a darkside user could consume one whole. The superpower of the light side is having protagonists use be set in it.

And 'Christian Knight vs Shoilin Monk' has always been a problematic element of Jedi it can't reconcile. Shoilin Monks generally stuck to themselves and detachment serves that well.
Christian Knights where active and crusadery and where not detached.

This mixed together as well as motor oil and jam.

The Light Side is stronger because it's able to counter and undo every effect you just mentioned. As Master Yoda said while catching Force Lighting in his hand.... "Much to learn you still have."

The point of the Lightside, the point of being Good, is not destruction... Which is why it doesn't do those effects, and why it counters those effects. The Light side of the Force is not about seeking destructive toys, it's about bringing Good to the world around you. As for Shaolin Monks, apparently you haven't watched enough Kung Fu movies, because the Shaolin monks in those are always getting involved to protect the common people from oppressors and villains. Fuck dude, why do you think there's a D&D class entirely devoted to playing one?

Shrieking Banshee

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2020, 11:46:39 PM »
Quote from: Orphan81;1129631
The Light Side is stronger because it's able to counter and undo every effect you just mentioned. As Master Yoda said while catching Force Lighting in his hand.... "Much to learn you still have."


Don't fan wank me here. Im asking for concrete counter arguments to my point that Star Wars writers invested new powers for the darkside for new villains while the light side countered....none of it. Can the force bring life to a dead planet? No. Can it counter darkside storms? No. Can it heal the wounded? On wait thats a Darkside power. He was able to catch some Sith Lightning. Thats it.

At BEST the Light Side was capable of defending against the darkside. But in no way countered it outside of the 'Lightning reflects off a lightsaber' thing. But that requires them to keep zapping you, instead of just stopping.

The end result after decades of creative sterility that the light sides main power was plot armor.
Quote
As for Shaolin Monks, apparently you haven't watched enough Kung Fu movies


As an  counter argument for how Oxymoronic Jedi are, saying 'Watch Kung Fu movies' is a rather weak one.

jhkim

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2020, 01:08:53 AM »
Quote from: Orphan81;1129631
The Light Side is stronger because it's able to counter and undo every effect you just mentioned. As Master Yoda said while catching Force Lighting in his hand.... "Much to learn you still have."

The point of the Lightside, the point of being Good, is not destruction... Which is why it doesn't do those effects, and why it counters those effects. The Light side of the Force is not about seeking destructive toys, it's about bringing Good to the world around you.
This is something I found bizarre about interpretations of the Force. Apparently chopping someone in half isn't considered dark or destructive, but tasing someone with a non-lethal zap is considered inherently evil?!? What's up with that? I get that the *character* of the Emperor is evil, but just like light sabers or anything else -- I would think that the morality of Force use is in what is done with it.


Quote from: Orphan81;1129631
As for Shaolin Monks, apparently you haven't watched enough Kung Fu movies, because the Shaolin monks in those are always getting involved to protect the common people from oppressors and villains. Fuck dude, why do you think there's a D&D class entirely devoted to playing one?
It varies from film to film. In a most of them that I've seen, it's someone who was *kicked out* of the Shaolin temple that goes and helps people. Actually, it occurs to me that Jet Li's "Tai Chi Master" is an interesting parable for the Star Wars prequels. Two friends are both taken in by the Shaolin temple as boys. Their lives are extremely harsh, unloving, and they are toughened by constant beating, but they learn to fight well before escaping. One joins the military and becomes a horrendous warlord. The other, though, goes to a good household -- where he gets married and unlearns the abusive ways taught to him by the Shaolin -- then invents Tai Chi as a reaction against the Shaolin. The story is that getting married and having a family is a key to balance and goodness, while being with a bunch of celibate men constantly training for violence just begets more violence.

Orphan81

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2020, 05:26:16 AM »
Quote
tasing someone with a non-lethal zap is considered inherently evil?!?


Come on man. You can't really tell me you believe Force Lightning is "non-lethal". That's just a disingenuous argument there. The shit was so powerful we could see Darth Vader's skeleton in flashes while he was being hit by it.

Quote
It varies from film to film. In a most of them that I've seen, it's someone who was *kicked out* of the Shaolin temple that goes and helps people. Actually, it occurs to me that Jet Li's "Tai Chi Master" is an interesting parable for the Star Wars prequels. Two friends are both taken in by the Shaolin temple as boys. Their lives are extremely harsh, unloving, and they are toughened by constant beating, but they learn to fight well before escaping. One joins the military and becomes a horrendous warlord. The other, though, goes to a good household -- where he gets married and unlearns the abusive ways taught to him by the Shaolin -- then invents Tai Chi as a reaction against the Shaolin. The story is that getting married and having a family is a key to balance and goodness, while being with a bunch of celibate men constantly training for violence just begets more violence.


I've seen Tai Chi Master, let me counter with "The 36th Chamber of Shaolin" based on San Te. Troubled kid learns Shaolin, frees the people from oppression, then returns to the Temple and teaches Martial Arts. A more modern example I particularly like is Bullet Proof Monk.

Quote
Can the force bring life to a dead planet? No. Can it counter darkside storms? No. Can it heal the wounded? On wait thats a Darkside power.
Alright, yes to the first and last question, no to the middle. Also you're dead wrong. Healing people is specifically a Light Side power. You can see for yourself here https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_healing. The Light Side is also capable of holding Black Holes in place if we want to start whipping out expanded universe examples. You seem to be going with this idea that "More destruction and killing ability" equals "Better".

Quote
As an counter argument for how Oxymoronic Jedi are, saying 'Watch Kung Fu movies' is a rather weak one.


Considering those are the actual inspiration for the Jedi, just trying to dismiss them is weak as hell on your part. They're not Christian Knights in any sense of the word, except for the fact they use swords. Come on man, give me a better example.

Shrieking Banshee

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Were the Jedi celibate?
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2020, 08:21:07 AM »
Quote from: Orphan81;1129652
Come on man. You can't really tell me you believe Force Lightning is "non-lethal". That's just a disingenuous argument there. The shit was so powerful we could see Darth Vader's skeleton in flashes while he was being hit by it.
I will agree on this point. Force Lightning even as 'Non-lethal' is effectively torture.

Quote
Alright, yes to the first and last question, no to the middle.
This is mostly fanwank as what the Jedi can do changes from thing to thing. The EU full of retarded shit like viruses that turn you into robots and dakrside force bombs. And at least 3 aggressive species of biotech users.
I will digress to the idea that in some book somewhere the Jedi Re-light suns and shit. I will say that it was stupid of me to bring up the EU of evidence of ANYTHING because the EU stands for many things depending on the decade and the writer. Its my fault and I accept credit for bringing this stupidity into the argument.

And the Jedi have many inspirations. Im saying that those inspirations don't mix well. Your example of commercialized versions that themselves don't mix well are also a good example of that.

Shoilin Monks where isolationist. Even your examples show of monks BREAKING the Shoilin way by breaking isolation.