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The Lounge => Media and Inspiration => Topic started by: jeff37923 on January 28, 2022, 06:44:12 AM

Title: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on January 28, 2022, 06:44:12 AM
The oversexed gnome bard caricature is enough to make you not watch this series.

Then there is the big, dumb half-giant barbarian who is constantly burping.

Then the prissy human aristocrat who lost his family and all their holdings to a vampire who wants revenge.

The flaming gay Nellie elf caricature running the magic item store.

Of all of the stupid tropes running through this cartoon, the thing that is the most jarring is the constant use of the word "fuck" - not because it is "bad language" but because if you want to create the illusion of a magical fantasy realm then using a modern swear word constantly is not the way to do it. This show would be what I hate the most about fantasy anime, if it wasn't already more believable as a D&D 5E campaign turned into a cartoon then an actual anime with a plot and characters.

Goblin Slayer was better than this.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on January 28, 2022, 07:58:15 AM
And on the day of release by 8am, 226 out of 243 reviews are 5 star.

You can actually smell the astroturfing....
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: HappyDaze on January 28, 2022, 10:26:17 AM
I watched the first episode and it reminds me a lot of the more annoying characters (and their players) that I've seen in gaming, especially in the past 10 years or so.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 28, 2022, 01:15:06 PM
If you want a decent D&D-themed cartoon, then the best is probably Record of Lodoss War. Modern cartoons including anime sucks by comparison.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on January 28, 2022, 02:04:47 PM
And they have an Amazon Store.....

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/BEBED0C3-0818-415D-94B2-75AAF5373E74?ingress=0&visitId=ea06500c-3e8e-4219-bb34-089cf0fc1fd7&ref_=pd_gw_dvm_us_or_cs_HUD_be_22VXMRCH_QD
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: RandyB on January 28, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
And they have an Amazon Store.....

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/BEBED0C3-0818-415D-94B2-75AAF5373E74?ingress=0&visitId=ea06500c-3e8e-4219-bb34-089cf0fc1fd7&ref_=pd_gw_dvm_us_or_cs_HUD_be_22VXMRCH_QD

Of course they do. Full court press on release. Because grassroots something.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Banjo Destructo on January 28, 2022, 03:23:19 PM
Another thing I will never see, brought to you by people who made the first thing I will never see.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: S'mon on January 28, 2022, 04:42:11 PM
Just watched the first two episodes. Wow, it was way sleazier than I expected.  :o Funny how SJWs love this stuff and hate on Venger Satanis' stuff. I guess it's a case of Who? Whom? There are the elites who get to do what they like (until they get Cancelled) and the non-elites who very definitely cannot.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 28, 2022, 05:24:49 PM
Female-presenting nipples and back sack in the first five minutes. Wow.

Honestly, I can’t get into it. It’s too ADHD for me. I can’t decide whether it’s better or worse than D&D anime, tho

It would work a lot better IMO if they pared down the characters to the classic mage, fighter, thief, and cleric combo. There’s just too many to care about now
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: S'mon on January 28, 2022, 05:41:50 PM
It would work a lot better IMO if they pared down the characters to the classic mage, fighter, thief, and cleric combo. There’s just too many to care about now

There are a huge swarm of PCs - reminds me of my games (I have games with 6, 7, 8 & 9 players running currently - 9 17th level PCs is quite a handful). I kinda wonder why Critical Role went with such a big group rather than the more usual 4-6.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Eirikrautha on January 28, 2022, 06:10:04 PM
It would work a lot better IMO if they pared down the characters to the classic mage, fighter, thief, and cleric combo. There’s just too many to care about now

There are a huge swarm of PCs - reminds me of my games (I have games with 6, 7, 8 & 9 players running currently - 9 17th level PCs is quite a handful). I kinda wonder why Critical Role went with such a big group rather than the more usual 4-6.

To quote Yogurt, "Merchandizing!"
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Crusader X on January 28, 2022, 06:20:55 PM
I couldn't get past the first 10 minutes.  Unappealing characters.  Bad animation.  Cringy swearing.

Goblin Slayer was much better than this.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 28, 2022, 09:43:33 PM
Then there is the big, dumb half-giant barbarian who is constantly burping.

Haven't watch any CR or VM, but this comment made me think of the fat character from Exo Squad whose "thing" was to be a slob and burp.

Once in a while, a well placed burp can be funny, but when it's a character's 'catchphrase' it gets old and stupid very quickly.

Quote
Of all of the stupid tropes running through this cartoon, the thing that is the most jarring is the constant use of the word "fuck" - not because it is "bad language" but because if you want to create the illusion of a magical fantasy realm then using a modern swear word constantly is not the way to do it. This show would be what I hate the most about fantasy anime, if it wasn't already more believable as a D&D 5E campaign turned into a cartoon then an actual anime with a plot and characters.

Agree. There are some words that just carry too many modern connotations.
My bro uses it when DMing too. Makes me wince when the bad guys says "Fuck".
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on January 29, 2022, 02:30:01 AM
The trailer alone turned me off it before it even finished.

Their normal animations are alot more bemusing and watchable.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 29, 2022, 02:02:58 PM
Money talks.

And the Kickstarter to develop a full-fledged CR animated series blew past its goal like it was on rockets. They asked for $750k, and raised over $11.5 million.

Now, you can interpret this as 'market demand' or 'fools and their money are soon parted'. Your call. But they had the money to make this thing. Whether it'll be any good... well, that may be another story.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: RandyB on January 29, 2022, 03:19:17 PM
Money talks.

And the Kickstarter to develop a full-fledged CR animated series blew past its goal like it was on rockets. They asked for $750k, and raised over $11.5 million.

Now, you can interpret this as 'market demand' or 'fools and their money are soon parted'. Your call. But they had the money to make this thing. Whether it'll be any good... well, that may be another story.

I interpret that as "astroturfing" and "money laundering".
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: HappyDaze on January 29, 2022, 04:46:32 PM
Money talks.

And the Kickstarter to develop a full-fledged CR animated series blew past its goal like it was on rockets. They asked for $750k, and raised over $11.5 million.

Now, you can interpret this as 'market demand' or 'fools and their money are soon parted'. Your call. But they had the money to make this thing. Whether it'll be any good... well, that may be another story.

I interpret that as "astroturfing" and "money laundering".
Try just accepting that things you don't like can still be successful. And, even then, you still don't have to like it.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on January 29, 2022, 05:22:51 PM
Yeah, Twilight was hugely successful. Has a 4.7 rating on Amazon Prime. I wouldn't be surprised if VM is successful and highly rated despite mediocre writing quality.

Nowadays it's pretty normal for hugely successful franchises to quickly pop up and then equally quickly burn themselves out due to a lack of any longstanding value.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on January 29, 2022, 07:01:16 PM
But they had the money to make this thing. Whether it'll be any good... well, that may be another story.

It looks good. Other than the inexplicable use of CGI monsters. It the writing and reliance on crass jokes that drags it down. I'd expect this from Acquisitions Incorporated. But Critical Role I expected better from.

Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on January 29, 2022, 07:04:05 PM
Try just accepting that things you don't like can still be successful. And, even then, you still don't have to like it.

I just see it as the votes are initially coming from backers who are getting what they payed to see.

But the crassness of it unfortunately edges me out. Also not helped that some of the CR crew have been less than stellar people in the last year or two.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on January 29, 2022, 07:07:38 PM
Yeah, Twilight was hugely successful. Has a 4.7 rating on Amazon Prime. I wouldn't be surprised if VM is successful and highly rated despite mediocre writing quality.

Nowadays it's pretty normal for hugely successful franchises to quickly pop up and then equally quickly burn themselves out due to a lack of any longstanding value.

Part of the looking askance at the ratings is that for the last decade at least companies have been increasingly seeding online reviews with shills and sock puppets. You can usually tell the ones as they tend to all use the exact same buzzwords like "it is true to the source material" when the movie is anything but.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on January 30, 2022, 07:08:17 PM
The amount of people with no taste vastly outnumbers those that do. Looks completly expected.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 07, 2022, 11:19:39 AM
Quote
Of all of the stupid tropes running through this cartoon, the thing that is the most jarring is the constant use of the word "fuck" - not because it is "bad language" but because if you want to create the illusion of a magical fantasy realm then using a modern swear word constantly is not the way to do it.

The thing it's not modern swear word.
It's like 700 years old at least, and probably older. It's shared between North Germanic and part of West Germanic origin.
One of most conservative Nordic languages - Faroes - has swear word "fukka".
Of course it evolved and shifted through those centuries, but saying this is one thing that break illusion to you in this show is very boomer of you :P

So what people raised on whitebread American culture considered truly old, is often very very misguided, and their illusions of magical fantasy as skewed as Scottish attires in "Braveheart" :P

Quote
I kinda wonder why Critical Role went with such a big group rather than the more usual 4-6.

I think it grew organically in their voicac community, and then Geek and Sundry offered them to make it stream.
I think they shifted to 5e, precisely because their PF sessions were usually very long due to amount of crunch in PF1e.

Like I think Vox Machina stream started about 1/3 half into their campaign.

Quote
It looks good. Other than the inexplicable use of CGI monsters. It the writing and reliance on crass jokes that drags it down. I'd expect this from Acquisitions Incorporated. But Critical Role I expected better from.

Really? I watched like 10 streams of them, and I think it's to be expected. They are quite crass, at least part of them.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: SHARK on February 07, 2022, 05:39:44 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, the term *Fuck* is actually pretty old, derived from old Germanic and Norse slang. The idea of using vulgar words being modern is simply a reflection o American whitebread prudishness. Dark Ages people used vulgar and coarse language all the time.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 07, 2022, 06:50:38 PM
Quote
Of all of the stupid tropes running through this cartoon, the thing that is the most jarring is the constant use of the word "fuck" - not because it is "bad language" but because if you want to create the illusion of a magical fantasy realm then using a modern swear word constantly is not the way to do it.

The thing it's not modern swear word.
It's like 700 years old at least, and probably older. It's shared between North Germanic and part of West Germanic origin.
One of most conservative Nordic languages - Faroes - has swear word "fukka".
Of course it evolved and shifted through those centuries, but saying this is one thing that break illusion to you in this show is very boomer of you :P

So what people raised on whitebread American culture considered truly old, is often very very misguided, and their illusions of magical fantasy as skewed as Scottish attires in "Braveheart" :P

Greetings!

Yeah, the term *Fuck* is actually pretty old, derived from old Germanic and Norse slang. The idea of using vulgar words being modern is simply a reflection o American whitebread prudishness. Dark Ages people used vulgar and coarse language all the time.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

If you two are done short stroking your pretentiousness, kindly list all the medieval fantasy books, stories, comic books, movies, TV shows, and anime that use the same amount of "fuck" in them as Vox Machina because this whitebread American never encountered its use so heavily in media (if at all).

Is "fuck" an old word? Yes. No tell me where it shows up in Canterbury Tales or Beowolf. For estra credit, you can tell which of Shakespeare's works the word appears in.

Why am I dying on this hill? Because the word "fuck" was just used for shock value in Vox Machina, a cheap way for the writers to show that they are edgy and cool - not that they can present a story with compelling characters.

Oh, and  :P
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 07, 2022, 08:24:25 PM
Word "fuck" was used in Legend of Vox Machina, because Critical Role players use it a lot in game. Simple as that. This show is redux of gaming session, not new Shakespeare or new Tolkien.

Quote
Is "fuck" an old word? Yes. No tell me where it shows up in Canterbury Tales or Beowolf. For estra credit, you can tell which of Shakespeare's works the word appears in.

Yeah, because obviously one can accept from high culture - like plays that can be watched by Queen, or works of Geoffrey Chaucer to use coarse language of contemporary soldiers, peasants and fisherfolk. That makes sense.

From Wiki: "Otherwise, the usually accepted first known occurrence of the word is found in code in a poem in a mixture of Latin and English composed in the 15th century. The poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, "Flen flyys", from the first words of its opening line, Flen, flyys, and freris ('Fleas, flies, and friars'). The line that contains fuck reads Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk. Deciphering the phrase gxddbou xxkxzt pg ifmk, here by replacing each letter by the previous letter in alphabetical order, as the English alphabet was then, yields the macaronic non sunt in coeli, quia fuccant vvivys of heli, which translated means, 'They are not in heaven, because they fuck the women of Ely'. The phrase was probably encoded because it accused monks of breaking their vows of celibacy;[13] it is uncertain to what extent the word fuck was considered acceptable at the time. The stem of fuccant is an English word used as Latin.[24] In the Middle English of this poem, the term wife was still used generically for 'woman'.[‡ 1]

William Dunbar's 1503 poem "Brash of Wowing" includes the lines: "Yit be his feiris he wald haue fukkit: / Ye brek my hairt, my bony ane" (ll. 13–14).[25]

The oldest occurrence of the word in adjectival form (which implies use of the verb) in English comes from the margins of a 1528 manuscript copy of Cicero's De Officiis. A monk had scrawled in the margin notes, "fuckin Abbot". Whether the monk meant the word literally, to accuse this abbott of "questionable monastic morals", or whether he used it "as an intensifier, to convey his extreme dismay" is unclear.[26]"

That's about written word. But probable Nordic origin puts it's few centuries earlier. I'm sorry that Chanson de Roland is not a good source about how French peasants swore in XI century :P

Quote
Yeah, the term *Fuck* is actually pretty old, derived from old Germanic and Norse slang. The idea of using vulgar words being modern is simply a reflection o American whitebread prudishness. Dark Ages people used vulgar and coarse language all the time.

Indeed. Judging overall language from written language in countries and times where only elites often clergy could read and write is not a good methodology.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 07, 2022, 09:32:57 PM
Word "fuck" was used in Legend of Vox Machina, because Critical Role players use it a lot in game. Simple as that. This show is redux of gaming session, not new Shakespeare or new Tolkien.

Quote
Is "fuck" an old word? Yes. No tell me where it shows up in Canterbury Tales or Beowolf. For estra credit, you can tell which of Shakespeare's works the word appears in.

Yeah, because obviously one can accept from high culture - like plays that can be watched by Queen, or works of Geoffrey Chaucer to use coarse language of contemporary soldiers, peasants and fisherfolk. That makes sense.

From Wiki: "Otherwise, the usually accepted first known occurrence of the word is found in code in a poem in a mixture of Latin and English composed in the 15th century. The poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, "Flen flyys", from the first words of its opening line, Flen, flyys, and freris ('Fleas, flies, and friars'). The line that contains fuck reads Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk. Deciphering the phrase gxddbou xxkxzt pg ifmk, here by replacing each letter by the previous letter in alphabetical order, as the English alphabet was then, yields the macaronic non sunt in coeli, quia fuccant vvivys of heli, which translated means, 'They are not in heaven, because they fuck the women of Ely'. The phrase was probably encoded because it accused monks of breaking their vows of celibacy;[13] it is uncertain to what extent the word fuck was considered acceptable at the time. The stem of fuccant is an English word used as Latin.[24] In the Middle English of this poem, the term wife was still used generically for 'woman'.[‡ 1]

William Dunbar's 1503 poem "Brash of Wowing" includes the lines: "Yit be his feiris he wald haue fukkit: / Ye brek my hairt, my bony ane" (ll. 13–14).[25]

The oldest occurrence of the word in adjectival form (which implies use of the verb) in English comes from the margins of a 1528 manuscript copy of Cicero's De Officiis. A monk had scrawled in the margin notes, "fuckin Abbot". Whether the monk meant the word literally, to accuse this abbott of "questionable monastic morals", or whether he used it "as an intensifier, to convey his extreme dismay" is unclear.[26]"

That's about written word. But probable Nordic origin puts it's few centuries earlier. I'm sorry that Chanson de Roland is not a good source about how French peasants swore in XI century :P

Quote
Yeah, the term *Fuck* is actually pretty old, derived from old Germanic and Norse slang. The idea of using vulgar words being modern is simply a reflection o American whitebread prudishness. Dark Ages people used vulgar and coarse language all the time.

Indeed. Judging overall language from written language in countries and times where only elites often clergy could read and write is not a good methodology.

So you can quote Wikipedia, big deal.

Now tell me all the times "fuck" is used in medieval fantasy media over the last few decades.

"Fuck" doesn't show up in a lot of the medieval fantasy media that we consume, so when it does like this it is jarring. Yeah, it is meta because Vox Machina is a medieval fantasy cartoon based on a group of players paid to act like they are having fun playing D&D in an attempt to maximize the advertisement budget of WotC/Hasbro. So instead, the cartoon ends up looking like a bunch of cosplayers trying to tell an episodic story.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: SHARK on February 08, 2022, 02:40:26 AM
Quote
Of all of the stupid tropes running through this cartoon, the thing that is the most jarring is the constant use of the word "fuck" - not because it is "bad language" but because if you want to create the illusion of a magical fantasy realm then using a modern swear word constantly is not the way to do it.

The thing it's not modern swear word.
It's like 700 years old at least, and probably older. It's shared between North Germanic and part of West Germanic origin.
One of most conservative Nordic languages - Faroes - has swear word "fukka".
Of course it evolved and shifted through those centuries, but saying this is one thing that break illusion to you in this show is very boomer of you :P

So what people raised on whitebread American culture considered truly old, is often very very misguided, and their illusions of magical fantasy as skewed as Scottish attires in "Braveheart" :P

Greetings!

Yeah, the term *Fuck* is actually pretty old, derived from old Germanic and Norse slang. The idea of using vulgar words being modern is simply a reflection o American whitebread prudishness. Dark Ages people used vulgar and coarse language all the time.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

If you two are done short stroking your pretentiousness, kindly list all the medieval fantasy books, stories, comic books, movies, TV shows, and anime that use the same amount of "fuck" in them as Vox Machina because this whitebread American never encountered its use so heavily in media (if at all).

Is "fuck" an old word? Yes. No tell me where it shows up in Canterbury Tales or Beowolf. For estra credit, you can tell which of Shakespeare's works the word appears in.

Why am I dying on this hill? Because the word "fuck" was just used for shock value in Vox Machina, a cheap way for the writers to show that they are edgy and cool - not that they can present a story with compelling characters.

Oh, and  :P

Greetings!

"Short Stroking pretentiousness!" *Laughing*

Nice, Jeff! Well, I don't really mind the whoever cartoon people saying *Fuck* really. Of course, I think it can be used excessively, perhaps, but it doesn't really bother me.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: SHARK on February 08, 2022, 02:44:59 AM
Word "fuck" was used in Legend of Vox Machina, because Critical Role players use it a lot in game. Simple as that. This show is redux of gaming session, not new Shakespeare or new Tolkien.

Quote
Is "fuck" an old word? Yes. No tell me where it shows up in Canterbury Tales or Beowolf. For estra credit, you can tell which of Shakespeare's works the word appears in.

Yeah, because obviously one can accept from high culture - like plays that can be watched by Queen, or works of Geoffrey Chaucer to use coarse language of contemporary soldiers, peasants and fisherfolk. That makes sense.

From Wiki: "Otherwise, the usually accepted first known occurrence of the word is found in code in a poem in a mixture of Latin and English composed in the 15th century. The poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, "Flen flyys", from the first words of its opening line, Flen, flyys, and freris ('Fleas, flies, and friars'). The line that contains fuck reads Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk. Deciphering the phrase gxddbou xxkxzt pg ifmk, here by replacing each letter by the previous letter in alphabetical order, as the English alphabet was then, yields the macaronic non sunt in coeli, quia fuccant vvivys of heli, which translated means, 'They are not in heaven, because they fuck the women of Ely'. The phrase was probably encoded because it accused monks of breaking their vows of celibacy;[13] it is uncertain to what extent the word fuck was considered acceptable at the time. The stem of fuccant is an English word used as Latin.[24] In the Middle English of this poem, the term wife was still used generically for 'woman'.[‡ 1]

William Dunbar's 1503 poem "Brash of Wowing" includes the lines: "Yit be his feiris he wald haue fukkit: / Ye brek my hairt, my bony ane" (ll. 13–14).[25]

The oldest occurrence of the word in adjectival form (which implies use of the verb) in English comes from the margins of a 1528 manuscript copy of Cicero's De Officiis. A monk had scrawled in the margin notes, "fuckin Abbot". Whether the monk meant the word literally, to accuse this abbott of "questionable monastic morals", or whether he used it "as an intensifier, to convey his extreme dismay" is unclear.[26]"

That's about written word. But probable Nordic origin puts it's few centuries earlier. I'm sorry that Chanson de Roland is not a good source about how French peasants swore in XI century :P

Quote
Yeah, the term *Fuck* is actually pretty old, derived from old Germanic and Norse slang. The idea of using vulgar words being modern is simply a reflection o American whitebread prudishness. Dark Ages people used vulgar and coarse language all the time.

Indeed. Judging overall language from written language in countries and times where only elites often clergy could read and write is not a good methodology.

So you can quote Wikipedia, big deal.

Now tell me all the times "fuck" is used in medieval fantasy media over the last few decades.

"Fuck" doesn't show up in a lot of the medieval fantasy media that we consume, so when it does like this it is jarring. Yeah, it is meta because Vox Machina is a medieval fantasy cartoon based on a group of players paid to act like they are having fun playing D&D in an attempt to maximize the advertisement budget of WotC/Hasbro. So instead, the cartoon ends up looking like a bunch of cosplayers trying to tell an episodic story.

Greetings!

They're just trying to be edgy and cool! *Laughing*

I suspect you are probably right, Jeff. ;D

As an aside, I can't say I have high expectations of a cartoon based on Critical Role.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 08, 2022, 04:51:42 AM
Now with "fuck" out of the way, I watched the next block of three episodes of Vox Machina (night shift induced insomnia, you are a bitch). These episodes were not nearly as repulsive as the previous three, some parts were actually engaging - especially the undead attacks. The gnome bard was still annoying, but had fewer lines.

I may have to revise my opinion.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 08, 2022, 10:24:30 AM
Ditto. It might even be *gasp* better than Goblin Slayer. Heresy! I must visit my local confessor for a flogging!
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 08, 2022, 03:15:26 PM
Ditto. It might even be *gasp* better than Goblin Slayer. Heresy! I must visit my local confessor for a flogging!

No, it definitely is not better than Goblin Slayer.

Maybe as good as Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God, but not better than Goblin Slayer.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Banjo Destructo on February 08, 2022, 03:21:33 PM
I don't mind the use of the word fuck, but the context matters.  Kind of like every other word people use, it can be used well, or poorly used.  Based on the quality of what I have experience from these people before, it seems like the fake edgy kind of use of the word fuck that just makes you feel sad for the writers.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: HappyDaze on February 08, 2022, 03:49:01 PM
I don't mind the use of the word fuck, but the context matters.  Kind of like every other word people use, it can be used well, or poorly used.  Based on the quality of what I have experience from these people before, it seems like the fake edgy kind of use of the word fuck that just makes you feel sad for the writers.
I felt that way when cartoon characters overused the word "smurf" for every-damn-thing.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 08, 2022, 04:39:13 PM
Quote
Now tell me all the times "fuck" is used in medieval fantasy media over the last few decades.

Well for instance in Game of Thrones / Song of Ice and Fire quite a lot.
Besides why would last few decades dictate any... tradition? Few decades is like... nothing.


Quote
Yeah, it is meta because Vox Machina is a medieval fantasy cartoon based on a group of players paid to act like they are having fun playing D&D in an attempt to maximize the advertisement budget of WotC/Hasbro. So instead, the cartoon ends up looking like a bunch of cosplayers trying to tell an episodic story.

There are many bad things i can say about CR guys but "acting that they are having fun" is IMHO straight dishonest. I mean they survived playing off-screen on mind-numbing mathematic mess that is Pathfinder 1e, that demands some genuine love :P And of course even that aside there's nothing really medieval about this setting. If I'd have to pinpoint this utter mess of setting I'd say Reneissance-Early Modern but even that's a stretch.

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Now with "fuck" out of the way, I watched the next block of three episodes of Vox Machina (night shift induced insomnia, you are a bitch). These episodes were not nearly as repulsive as the previous three, some parts were actually engaging - especially the undead attacks. The gnome bard was still annoying, but had fewer lines.

Yeah. AFAIU they decided to make season 1 about gunslinger's backstory arc, but for some reason they put blue dragon intro... I have no idea why. It was narratively just disjointed. If anything I think they could safely make entire season out of both, rather than stuck this one as prologue for some reason.

Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 08, 2022, 05:41:29 PM
Ditto. It might even be *gasp* better than Goblin Slayer. Heresy! I must visit my local confessor for a flogging!

No, it definitely is not better than Goblin Slayer.

Maybe as good as Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God, but not better than Goblin Slayer.
I think everything is garbage, but as garbage goes VM is slightly better in certain ways. Mostly just because it doesn’t use those asinine anime tropes. It’s still cliché and generic as fuck, it’s tonally incoherent, overly reliant on shock value to the point it loses impact quickly, the humor is puerile in the extreme, but it’s slightly better than every non-satirical D&D-inspired anime that came out since 2010. The female adventurers actually serve a purpose other than forming a harem around Percy (the closest thing the show has to a central male protagonist right now). There’s actually a structured plot rather than meandering nonsense that goes nowhere because web novels are made up on the fly. Not a high bar. Not high praise.

It’s not even remotely as good as some of the low budget live action D&D webshows I’ve seen, like Standard Action.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 08, 2022, 07:38:01 PM
Besides why would last few decades dictate any... tradition? Few decades is like... nothing.

The last few decades are when we grew up and formed our opinions on medieval fantasy. Seems like a commonality that we would share.




There are many bad things i can say about CR guys but "acting that they are having fun" is IMHO straight dishonest. I mean they survived playing off-screen on mind-numbing mathematic mess that is Pathfinder 1e, that demands some genuine love :P And of course even that aside there's nothing really medieval about this setting. If I'd have to pinpoint this utter mess of setting I'd say Reneissance-Early Modern but even that's a stretch.


I'm not being dishonest. I truly believe that these are a bunch of second-rate actors who found a paying gig by acting like they are gaming nerds enjoying a game. Nothing dishonest about it.

As to your quibble about the setting not being medieval, it's a D&D setting. If anything, it is a hodge-podge kitchen sink of a setting mess designed to cater to D&D players. Nothing else.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 08, 2022, 07:38:50 PM

I think everything is garbage

Well, that ends that conversation.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 08, 2022, 07:44:27 PM
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The last few decades are when we grew up and formed our opinions on medieval fantasy. Seems like a commonality that we would share.

Ergo sentiment and nostalgia, two greatest vice of men :P

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I'm not being dishonest. I truly believe that these are a bunch of second-rate actors who found a paying gig by acting like they are gaming nerds enjoying a game. Nothing dishonest about it.

I think it's wrong belief, from my exp with their actual sessions, won't argue about their rate-dness as I know jackshit about voice actors aside of Troy Baker being S-Class.
Playing 3 years on Pathfinder for free, without cams is per se proof of actual dedication.

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As to your quibble about the setting not being medieval, it's a D&D setting. If anything, it is a hodge-podge kitchen sink of a setting mess designed to cater to D&D players. Nothing else.

Indeed as most of them. But for various reasons most of them drift more to quasi-Reneissance, than quasi-Medieval at least if look at things continentally.

Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: SHARK on February 08, 2022, 07:53:32 PM
Greetings!

Well, before Laura Bailey started doing Critical Role--she has played the voice of Jaina Proudmore in World of Warfcraft. She also sang the huge song, Daughter of the Sea, as part of the soundtrack for World of Warcraft's expansion, Battle For Azeroth. She's been regularly employed by Blizzard Entertainment for years. Laura Bailey has also performed at Blizz Con, and in concerts around the world with composer Neal Acree. She's world famous, with millions of fans everywhere. In addition to her constant work with World of Warcraft, she has done lots of work for other video game franchises, videos and series shows around the world.

She's no doubt quite wealthy, and owns a fortune.

Not bad for some "Second Rate Actress". I know Pundit has referred to the Critical Role people as second rate--and I'm like, ok. Laura Bailey is fucking world famous, and hugely successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Eirikrautha on February 08, 2022, 08:28:33 PM
Greetings!

Well, before Laura Bailey started doing Critical Role--she has played the voice of Jaina Proudmore in World of Warfcraft. She also sang the huge song, Daughter of the Sea, as part of the soundtrack for World of Warcraft's expansion, Battle For Azeroth. She's been regularly employed by Blizzard Entertainment for years. Laura Bailey has also performed at Blizz Con, and in concerts around the world with composer Neal Acree. She's world famous, with millions of fans everywhere. In addition to her constant work with World of Warcraft, she has done lots of work for other video game franchises, videos and series shows around the world.

She's no doubt quite wealthy, and owns a fortune.

Not bad for some "Second Rate Actress". I know Pundit has referred to the Critical Role people as second rate--and I'm like, ok. Laura Bailey is fucking world famous, and hugely successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Uhhhh, she did some voice work on a video game somehow equals "A-list"?  Sorry, Shark, but I think we're using different definitions here.  Actually, we're approaching different languages on this point...
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 08, 2022, 09:12:02 PM
Quote
The last few decades are when we grew up and formed our opinions on medieval fantasy. Seems like a commonality that we would share.

Ergo sentiment and nostalgia, two greatest vice of men :P

Obvious troll is obvious.

Although I would like to know how a person can have an informed opinion about a bit of media without experiencing it. If you haven't read a book or watched a movie in the past, then how can you give an informed opinion of that book or movie? Wikipedia?
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: HappyDaze on February 09, 2022, 12:03:50 AM
Quote
The last few decades are when we grew up and formed our opinions on medieval fantasy. Seems like a commonality that we would share.

Ergo sentiment and nostalgia, two greatest vice of men :P

Obvious troll is obvious.

Although I would like to know how a person can have an informed opinion about a bit of media without experiencing it. If you haven't read a book or watched a movie in the past, then how can you give an informed opinion of that book or movie? Wikipedia?
We could always ask those posters here that have strongly voiced their "informed" opinions on every new D&D product without actually reading them...
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 09, 2022, 06:11:39 AM
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Although I would like to know how a person can have an informed opinion about a bit of media without experiencing it. If you haven't read a book or watched a movie in the past, then how can you give an informed opinion of that book or movie? Wikipedia?

If you want opinion about piece of media sure watch it (though I regularly read Wikipedia spojlers of blockbusters before watching them, and it works quite well in 95% of examples my feeling after reading synopsis stay exactly the same). But we're not talking about opinion but about stereotype of genre, and basically demnading from other works within genre to submit to your previous experiences, like it was some canon or something. That's why I call nostalgia vice. That's why I hate last Spider-Man movie ;)

Like TBH I read rather darker "medieval" fantasy so cursing in this setting, and excessive violence, and grimdark are kinda natural. I'd say it's goofy part of VM that is more jarring than them swearing.

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She's no doubt quite wealthy, and owns a fortune.

Not bad for some "Second Rate Actress". I know Pundit has referred to the Critical Role people as second rate--and I'm like, ok. Laura Bailey is fucking world famous, and hugely successful.

Let's say it that way - voice acting is well payed job, and all CR actors were not nearly jobless. So yeah they are definitely way beyond A-list actors (tbh most of voice actors are failed regular actors, who found their niche, but that's OK). But they are still well kinda what's the word one step below rich... in terms of overall society... wealthy?
How they rate among voice actors I have no idea. They are rather not in Nicholas Cage or Bruce Willis washed-up situation to do anything for money.

If I'd have to guess at beginning it was more about some fame factor, and free advertisement as voice actors than about incredible Twitch money. Then... then it's another story.

Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 09, 2022, 09:17:44 AM
Honestly, I think it would work better as a series of shorts, not an ongoing show.

What the hell is with the 'second rate actors' jibe though? Yeah, voice acting has always been a second banana to the actual get-in-front-of-the-camera types, but so what?

Again, people paid for it with that Kickstarter. Whether it'll be worth it or not is another story.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 09, 2022, 11:20:21 AM
I think it could work as a show, if they took good look at each arc of their campaign, distilled it's essence, check most memorable scenes and check which would work and then plan proper series from it, plan seeds for future arcs in previous ones and so on. I mean for animated shorts they just could... use apparently ton of shorts fans made for CR XD

I get it may be bit harder with Vox Machina considering it went through change of systems, half of it was not recorded, Latinx guy left early in streaming history and so on.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on February 09, 2022, 12:03:38 PM
Quote
Although I would like to know how a person can have an informed opinion about a bit of media without experiencing it. If you haven't read a book or watched a movie in the past, then how can you give an informed opinion of that book or movie? Wikipedia?

If you want opinion about piece of media sure watch it (though I regularly read Wikipedia spojlers of blockbusters before watching them, and it works quite well in 95% of examples my feeling after reading synopsis stay exactly the same). But we're not talking about opinion but about stereotype of genre, and basically demnading from other works within genre to submit to your previous experiences, like it was some canon or something. That's why I call nostalgia vice. That's why I hate last Spider-Man movie ;)

Like TBH I read rather darker "medieval" fantasy so cursing in this setting, and excessive violence, and grimdark are kinda natural. I'd say it's goofy part of VM that is more jarring than them swearing.

Bolding mine.

Am I demanding that it correspond to the tropes of the genre? No. Am I saying that it is jarring and breaks the suspension of disbelief for me? Yes.

You are falsely equating a "nostalgia vice" with "does not meet expectations". You are reading into my statement something that isn't there. Those expectations being honed over a 50+ year lifespan of exposure to the fantasy genre.

Now if you get your opinions from reading Wikipedia and then usually not have those opinions change after engaging the media, why bother with the media at all? You could just get the Reader's Digest condensed version or the Cliffs Notes version and save yourself the trouble of spending that money or finding anything nuanced in the material.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 09, 2022, 03:08:16 PM
All right, then. Peace between us.  :)

Quote
Now if you get your opinions from reading Wikipedia and then usually not have those opinions change after engaging the media, why bother with the media at all?

A. Curiosity
B. Because watching movies is generally entertaining experience.

Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 03:38:09 PM
Greetings!

Well, before Laura Bailey started doing Critical Role--she has played the voice of Jaina Proudmore in World of Warfcraft. She also sang the huge song, Daughter of the Sea, as part of the soundtrack for World of Warcraft's expansion, Battle For Azeroth. She's been regularly employed by Blizzard Entertainment for years. Laura Bailey has also performed at Blizz Con, and in concerts around the world with composer Neal Acree. She's world famous, with millions of fans everywhere. In addition to her constant work with World of Warcraft, she has done lots of work for other video game franchises, videos and series shows around the world.

She's no doubt quite wealthy, and owns a fortune.

Not bad for some "Second Rate Actress". I know Pundit has referred to the Critical Role people as second rate--and I'm like, ok. Laura Bailey is fucking world famous, and hugely successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Uhhhh, she did some voice work on a video game somehow equals "A-list"?  Sorry, Shark, but I think we're using different definitions here.  Actually, we're approaching different languages on this point...

Greetings!

Well, not merely "Just some video game"--but the largest and most successful video game franchise in the world.

As for a different language, well, perhaps. I see video games/digital stuff as being its own genre, its own world. Playing animated characters is certainly its own thing from whatever actors do in movies and TV shows. It seems like it is similar, but as an industry, very much its own thing, certainly at this point.

Is Laura Bailey a "Hollywood Actress" No, she isn't. But who cares about that? Beyond that, Laura Bailey doesn't *need* to be involved with Hollywood.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: HappyDaze on February 09, 2022, 04:54:19 PM
Greetings!

Well, before Laura Bailey started doing Critical Role--she has played the voice of Jaina Proudmore in World of Warfcraft. She also sang the huge song, Daughter of the Sea, as part of the soundtrack for World of Warcraft's expansion, Battle For Azeroth. She's been regularly employed by Blizzard Entertainment for years. Laura Bailey has also performed at Blizz Con, and in concerts around the world with composer Neal Acree. She's world famous, with millions of fans everywhere. In addition to her constant work with World of Warcraft, she has done lots of work for other video game franchises, videos and series shows around the world.

She's no doubt quite wealthy, and owns a fortune.

Not bad for some "Second Rate Actress". I know Pundit has referred to the Critical Role people as second rate--and I'm like, ok. Laura Bailey is fucking world famous, and hugely successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Uhhhh, she did some voice work on a video game somehow equals "A-list"?  Sorry, Shark, but I think we're using different definitions here.  Actually, we're approaching different languages on this point...

Greetings!

Well, not merely "Just some video game"--but the largest and most successful video game franchise in the world.

As for a different language, well, perhaps. I see video games/digital stuff as being its own genre, its own world. Playing animated characters is certainly its own thing from whatever actors do in movies and TV shows. It seems like it is similar, but as an industry, very much its own thing, certainly at this point.

Is Laura Bailey a "Hollywood Actress" No, she isn't. But who cares about that? Beyond that, Laura Bailey doesn't *need* to be involved with Hollywood.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
There can certainly be crossovers, and (for example) Mark Hamil is arguably a bigger voice actor than he is a "face" actor.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 10, 2022, 02:01:50 PM
I mean face actors are often hired side by side with strictly voice actors but it seems it works only one way. Considering only "real" actor credit of Mercer I can think about is some warlock in Mythica series. You have never heard about Mythica? Exactly.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 19, 2022, 06:13:38 PM
It’s over now. The cartoon was surprisingly okay. It’s nothing amazing and it has no literary value and I’m gonna forget it pretty quick, but it’s far better than the overwhelming majority of Japanese D&D cartoons
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Pat on February 19, 2022, 06:33:42 PM
I watched it as well. The first episode was far and away the worst, because all the characters came across as insufferable, and I almost stopped watching. But it got better, and watchable, though not great or even particularly good. The animation was fairly impressive. There were a couple action scenes toward the end where they clearly spent more than the average anime.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on February 21, 2022, 04:48:27 AM
I watched it as well. The first episode was far and away the worst, because all the characters came across as insufferable, and I almost stopped watching. But it got better, and watchable, though not great or even particularly good. The animation was fairly impressive. There were a couple action scenes toward the end where they clearly spent more than the average anime.

Its not an anime. Why do people keep calling it that?
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 21, 2022, 05:47:31 AM
I watched it as well. The first episode was far and away the worst, because all the characters came across as insufferable, and I almost stopped watching. But it got better, and watchable, though not great or even particularly good. The animation was fairly impressive. There were a couple action scenes toward the end where they clearly spent more than the average anime.

Its not an anime. Why do people keep calling it that?

Because the word, outside Japan, was/is a colloquialism.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on February 24, 2022, 11:10:02 AM
I watched it as well. The first episode was far and away the worst, because all the characters came across as insufferable, and I almost stopped watching. But it got better, and watchable, though not great or even particularly good. The animation was fairly impressive. There were a couple action scenes toward the end where they clearly spent more than the average anime.

Its not an anime. Why do people keep calling it that?

Because the word, outside Japan, was/is a colloquialism.

Um... No?

Anime refers to Japanese style of animation (and covers alot of Chinese and Korean animation too.

If you say "anime" people are not going to think western styles of animation. (unless that style is very Japanese style, and even then its a coin toss who will or wont."
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Pat on February 24, 2022, 12:11:32 PM
I watched it as well. The first episode was far and away the worst, because all the characters came across as insufferable, and I almost stopped watching. But it got better, and watchable, though not great or even particularly good. The animation was fairly impressive. There were a couple action scenes toward the end where they clearly spent more than the average anime.

Its not an anime. Why do people keep calling it that?
Why are you pretending I said that? I compared it to anime, I never said it was anime.

One thing that comes up in a lot of anime reviews is a criticism of visual "shortcuts", like panning over a static shot, or using CGI inserts, instead of fully animating the sequence. Even if the first couple episodes have high production values, there's often a noticeable drop in visual qualify as the series progresses, to save money. The Legend of Vox Whatever on the other hand doesn't show this slippage. In fact, the fight with the vampires toward the end seems to be much higher quality than the CGI dragon at the start of the series, with extensive movement and no apparent CGI.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Pat on February 24, 2022, 12:16:49 PM
I watched it as well. The first episode was far and away the worst, because all the characters came across as insufferable, and I almost stopped watching. But it got better, and watchable, though not great or even particularly good. The animation was fairly impressive. There were a couple action scenes toward the end where they clearly spent more than the average anime.

Its not an anime. Why do people keep calling it that?

Because the word, outside Japan, was/is a colloquialism.

Um... No?

Anime refers to Japanese style of animation (and covers alot of Chinese and Korean animation too.

If you say "anime" people are not going to think western styles of animation. (unless that style is very Japanese style, and even then its a coin toss who will or wont."
I agree with you on this particular point. Anime does not include Western animation. But since nobody said Vox Machina was anime in the first place, that's like completing a math problem by saying that 3 x 4 is 12, so therefore 12 is the right answer, even though you got the 3 in the first place by incorrectly adding 1 + 1. You're still fundamentally wrong.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 24, 2022, 12:55:19 PM
I watched it as well. The first episode was far and away the worst, because all the characters came across as insufferable, and I almost stopped watching. But it got better, and watchable, though not great or even particularly good. The animation was fairly impressive. There were a couple action scenes toward the end where they clearly spent more than the average anime.

Its not an anime. Why do people keep calling it that?

Because the word, outside Japan, was/is a colloquialism.

Um... No?

Anime refers to Japanese style of animation (and covers alot of Chinese and Korean animation too.

If you say "anime" people are not going to think western styles of animation. (unless that style is very Japanese style, and even then its a coin toss who will or wont."

"In Japan and in Japanese, anime (a term derived from the English word animation) describes all animated works, regardless of style or origin."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime

I agree that most western people are going to think of a particular style of japanese animation when they hear the word Anime.
But is this anime? It's japanese animation.



I remember when "anime" was called Japanimation. It is a colloquialism that has widespread use, but it's always been a bit fuzzy at the edges. Especially now that a lot of western animation copies anime. And even back when there was some question about animation outsourced to japan (or china or korea) for western studios.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 24, 2022, 12:57:58 PM
Now that the season is concluded, how do you think it compares to Goblin Slayer?
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Pat on February 24, 2022, 01:02:58 PM
"In Japan and in Japanese, anime (a term derived from the English word animation) describes all animated works, regardless of style or origin."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime

I agree that most western people are going to think of a particular style of japanese animation when they hear the word Anime.
But is this anime? It's japanese animation.
Yes, but anime is an English word, not a Japanese word. It's changed meaning as it crossed language boundaries, and become more localized.

Though there is ambiguity about whether Western-styled animation done by Japanese artists is anime, or more specifically how Western it can be and still qualify. Batman Ninja is another bizarre hybrid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Zjk8m6LaY
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 24, 2022, 01:41:27 PM
Not to mention that Netflix is using "anime" as a buzzword to advertise their original animated movies and shows. It's definitely being watered down as time goes on.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 24, 2022, 06:13:32 PM
Greetings!

Well, before Laura Bailey started doing Critical Role--she has played the voice of Jaina Proudmore in World of Warfcraft. She also sang the huge song, Daughter of the Sea, as part of the soundtrack for World of Warcraft's expansion, Battle For Azeroth. She's been regularly employed by Blizzard Entertainment for years. Laura Bailey has also performed at Blizz Con, and in concerts around the world with composer Neal Acree. She's world famous, with millions of fans everywhere. In addition to her constant work with World of Warcraft, she has done lots of work for other video game franchises, videos and series shows around the world.

She's no doubt quite wealthy, and owns a fortune.

Not bad for some "Second Rate Actress". I know Pundit has referred to the Critical Role people as second rate--and I'm like, ok. Laura Bailey is fucking world famous, and hugely successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Uhhhh, she did some voice work on a video game somehow equals "A-list"?  Sorry, Shark, but I think we're using different definitions here.  Actually, we're approaching different languages on this point...

Greetings!

Well, not merely "Just some video game"--but the largest and most successful video game franchise in the world.

As for a different language, well, perhaps. I see video games/digital stuff as being its own genre, its own world. Playing animated characters is certainly its own thing from whatever actors do in movies and TV shows. It seems like it is similar, but as an industry, very much its own thing, certainly at this point.

Is Laura Bailey a "Hollywood Actress" No, she isn't. But who cares about that? Beyond that, Laura Bailey doesn't *need* to be involved with Hollywood.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Also video games as an industry are way bigger than hollyweird. At least until the SJWs manage to grind them into grey mush.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on February 25, 2022, 04:40:23 AM
Yes, but anime is an English word, not a Japanese word. It's changed meaning as it crossed language boundaries, and become more localized.

Though there is ambiguity about whether Western-styled animation done by Japanese artists is anime, or more specifically how Western it can be and still qualify. Batman Ninja is another bizarre hybrid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Zjk8m6LaY

Anime at some point became the shorthand of a shorthand for Japanese Animation. As video distributors were looking for a term to differentiate it from Western animation as there was some confusion.
First it was Japanimation. But the prior edition of SJW stupid screeched that that was wacist!
Then it was shortened to Japanime by some. But nope. Still wacist!
And eventually it was shortened to Anime. And odds are there was screeching of "Thats Ewasure!" because you know they would.

Fred Perry might have had a hand in standardizing the term down to Anime. He was the go-to guy alot of animation companies in Japan went to for advice. But I still have some old VHS where they were using terms like Japanimation.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Chris24601 on February 28, 2022, 03:51:36 PM
Well, my home group for fantasy games loved it; primarily because of how much the leads reminded them of various PCs they'd run and how what happened felt a lot like various adventures we'd had over the years... right down to ridiculous over the top swearing and violence.

As I understand it, the first two episodes were basically a short-hand they created to get the group together in lieu of how they got together in their actual campaign. The remaining episodes were a re-telling of their first streamed adventure and they plan to continue that down the line.

Most amusing to me in looking into a bit is that apparently their pantheon of gods is just the 4E pantheon with different names. Grogg the barbarian is also depicted right down to the facial marking as being a 4E Goliath. So in addition to some PF1 DNA there's also some 4E DNA in its backstory somewhere.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on February 28, 2022, 07:48:07 PM
Well goliaths I think are actually 3E. Races of Earth or something like that. Alas they gained prominence in 4e definitely.

But yeah. IIUC they played first session with those characters in 4E, then switched to Pathfinder, so their pantheon is just 4E Pantheon + Sarenrae from Pathfinder (cleric character joined game in PF stage). And later of course they had to fill off serial numbers of both when publishing setting book-wise, that's why I think they use Whispered One for Vecna all the time.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 01, 2022, 08:31:43 AM
Well goliaths I think are actually 3E. Races of Earth or something like that. Alas they gained prominence in 4e definitely.

But yeah. IIUC they played first session with those characters in 4E, then switched to Pathfinder, so their pantheon is just 4E Pantheon + Sarenrae from Pathfinder (cleric character joined game in PF stage). And later of course they had to fill off serial numbers of both when publishing setting book-wise, that's why I think they use Whispered One for Vecna all the time.
They did. Although later on, WotC and Paizo were generally supportive (hell, CR is -technically- canon in the D&D multiverse, as it's stated in one of the sourcebooks that the Hand of Vecna is currently in the possession of Arkhan).

This is one of those weird copyright/IP cases that, fortunately, didn't blossom into a nasty court fight. No matter what I might think of CR or VM, I'm glad it didn't because the LAST thing we fuckin' need are the courts arguing over who can use what god or character in a campaign.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on March 01, 2022, 12:13:43 PM
Dunno how persecution of living play would work on YT or Twitch, alas TV Show is different pair of shoes.
TBH I consider basically all pantheons uninspired 4e, 3e, FR, PF so sort of *shrug*.

So CR made wise move to use titles instead of names. Which I generally kind of respect - Divine names are usually titles, it's very modern to have meaningless names by borrowing them from patrons. And WOTC made wise move to not sue people for playing their games even commercially.

On the other hands court war between CR and WOTC could really, really bring WOTC down.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Chris24601 on March 01, 2022, 01:37:34 PM
On the other hands court war between CR and WOTC could really, really bring WOTC down.
Yeah, usually it’s Hasbro money vs. some schlub so the little guy gets hosed even if he afford to pay a lawyer long enough to get it into a courtroom.

But Vox Machina has Amazon money backing it… so this time it would be Hasbro as the poor schlub in any lawsuit.

That alone gives me a warm fuzzy just thinking about it.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on March 01, 2022, 06:44:28 PM
Even without Amazon, let's say that in theory they would try to block CR for using copyrighted material like beholders and ilithids.
CR has enough fans for it to turn into massive PR clusterfuck.

Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 02, 2022, 09:23:57 AM
Even without Amazon, let's say that in theory they would try to block CR for using copyrighted material like beholders and ilithids.
CR has enough fans for it to turn into massive PR clusterfuck.
It’s not like they couldn’t tweak the monsters to avoid copyright infringement. Change the beholder to a literal giant eyeball trailing optic nerves, and the illithid to a faceless tentacle monster with no recognizable anatomy, and you’re probably good.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on March 04, 2022, 05:58:20 AM
But then TBH why would WOTC really protest if they publish Mercer worldbooks and it's probably biggest advertisement of D&D ever
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Eirikrautha on March 04, 2022, 06:44:18 AM
But then TBH why would WOTC really protest if they publish Mercer worldbooks and it's probably biggest advertisement of D&D ever
Because, according to US IP law, if you don't defend trademarks, you lose them.  So the moment WotC turns a blind eye to one group using beholders, everyone can use them.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Chris24601 on March 04, 2022, 10:50:53 AM
But then TBH why would WOTC really protest if they publish Mercer worldbooks and it's probably biggest advertisement of D&D ever
Because, according to US IP law, if you don't defend trademarks, you lose them.  So the moment WotC turns a blind eye to one group using beholders, everyone can use them.
Also because the show really isn’t so much a great advertisement for 5e as it for general big damn heroes fantasy roleplaying. Because the show isn’t trying to be meta about the story actually being a game session, but instead treating it like a traditional fantasy narrative (including changing events, removing/changing the many deaths/raise deads the party suffered, adding foreshadowing that wasn’t originally there and, most notably, portraying what were level 13+ PCs as a new groups of starting adventurers in the animated series).

Anyone starting a new PC in 5e and expecting to have adventures that look anything like what was shown on the screen with Vox Machina would be bitterly disappointed.

The Vox Machina setting also being basically 4E’s cosmology with the names filed off (a result of the one-shot that started the thing off being done in 4E before switching to PF for the ongoing pre-streamed campaign… yeah, the PCs were converted twice before they appeared on the CR podcasts… that’s definitely gonna muddy the more direct comparisons… they had to write up a custom class just to make Percy work in 5e like you’d see from OSR GM’s) also runs pretty counter to the Forgotten Realms/The Great Wheel also makes it feel less like D&D (in the same way that 4E is said to not feel like D&D).

Basically, it’s only an advertisement for 5e in the sense that 5e is default fantasy rpg on the market and in the long run I think there’s a market for those who like roleplaying who come into 5e, but dislike that they can’t really pull of Vox Machina Animated in 5e without a lot of houseruling.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Armchair Gamer on March 04, 2022, 11:03:01 AM
But then TBH why would WOTC really protest if they publish Mercer worldbooks and it's probably biggest advertisement of D&D ever
Because, according to US IP law, if you don't defend trademarks, you lose them.  So the moment WotC turns a blind eye to one group using beholders, everyone can use them.

  Beholders fall under copyright, though, not trademarks, and copyright isn't lost if ignored. It's also very easy to file the serial numbers off of beholders and illithids and avoid the problem, so even a victory wouldn't win WotC much.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ghostmaker on March 04, 2022, 11:18:52 AM
Parody is protected free speech, though.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 04, 2022, 01:27:18 PM
If WotC has grounds to sue VM for copyright infringement, then the Tolkien Estate has grounds to sue WotC for copyright infringement.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on March 04, 2022, 01:35:49 PM
Parody is protected free speech, though.

Within limits. It can be contested.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on March 04, 2022, 02:00:14 PM
But then TBH why would WOTC really protest if they publish Mercer worldbooks and it's probably biggest advertisement of D&D ever
Because, according to US IP law, if you don't defend trademarks, you lose them.  So the moment WotC turns a blind eye to one group using beholders, everyone can use them.

  Beholders fall under copyright, though, not trademarks, and copyright isn't lost if ignored. It's also very easy to file the serial numbers off of beholders and illithids and avoid the problem, so even a victory wouldn't win WotC much.

Eyeball monsters go back to at least The Trollenburg Terror from 1958, and possibly further back. Beholder-like creatures, minus the extra eyestalks usually, are ok. Just don't call them beholders or put eyestalks on them. IP infringement avoidance 101. Same with illithids/mindflayers. Squidhead monsters go back at least to Lovecraft and probably further back too. Again, just don't call them mindflayers and so on.

Its not that you need to file the serial numbers off TSR critters. You just have to find the source and use that or do like TSR oft did and rename something.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Chris24601 on March 04, 2022, 04:33:47 PM
But then TBH why would WOTC really protest if they publish Mercer worldbooks and it's probably biggest advertisement of D&D ever
Because, according to US IP law, if you don't defend trademarks, you lose them.  So the moment WotC turns a blind eye to one group using beholders, everyone can use them.

  Beholders fall under copyright, though, not trademarks, and copyright isn't lost if ignored. It's also very easy to file the serial numbers off of beholders and illithids and avoid the problem, so even a victory wouldn't win WotC much.

Eyeball monsters go back to at least The Trollenburg Terror from 1958, and possibly further back. Beholder-like creatures, minus the extra eyestalks usually, are ok. Just don't call them beholders or put eyestalks on them. IP infringement avoidance 101. Same with illithids/mindflayers. Squidhead monsters go back at least to Lovecraft and probably further back too. Again, just don't call them mindflayers and so on.

Its not that you need to file the serial numbers off TSR critters. You just have to find the source and use that or do like TSR oft did and rename something.
There's also just the fact that, if you're not explicitly trying to sell D&D, there's no real need to use those specific monsters when much more commonly known ones like dragons, vampires, zombies, trolls, ogres, giants, demonic dogs, etc. are available.

I have no idea what turned up in later arcs of Critical Role, but all the stuff in season one of the animated series was pretty bog standard critters you'd find in any fantasy world (i.e. dragons, undead and giants) and some civilized races that you frankly don't see in bog standard D&D (wolf-men members of the rival mercenary gang in the first episode for example) so it'd be very far fetched for WotC to even think about trying to hit the show with anything.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Omega on March 06, 2022, 03:56:07 AM
There's also just the fact that, if you're not explicitly trying to sell D&D, there's no real need to use those specific monsters when much more commonly known ones like dragons, vampires, zombies, trolls, ogres, giants, demonic dogs, etc. are available.

I have no idea what turned up in later arcs of Critical Role, but all the stuff in season one of the animated series was pretty bog standard critters you'd find in any fantasy world (i.e. dragons, undead and giants) and some civilized races that you frankly don't see in bog standard D&D (wolf-men members of the rival mercenary gang in the first episode for example) so it'd be very far fetched for WotC to even think about trying to hit the show with anything.

1: also very true. I think though for some the problem develops where someone got their idea from the same source as TSR did, or was using this or that more iconic TSR critter in their campaign that evolved into their new product and they dont realize it could attract trouble later. Or its too integral to remove easily, if at all. At that point you need to do some tweaks small or large or give it up as the risks are too high.

2: Wolf-men sound alot like the Wolfen from Palladium, or the usual Japanese depictions of kobolds since they were basing off the earlier dog-like ones. Or on rare occasions gnolls because like 90% if the earths population failed zoology class miserably. I've lost track of the morons who think wolverine = wolf.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: jeff37923 on April 13, 2022, 06:07:15 PM
Just because its almost maybe funny, Honest Trailers did Vox Machina......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH31K01rdKw


Somehow I think it is because ratings were low.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on April 13, 2022, 07:39:21 PM
This dialogue between Epic Voice Guy and Mercer took me completely flat. It would be better if they just forced Mercer to read entire trailer ;)
OVerall one of more meh Honest Trailers.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on May 12, 2022, 11:02:11 PM
Knowing that this has anything to do with Critical Roll I'd rather shove glass in my eyeballs rather than watch it.

But even beyond those muppets writing it (and just from the honest trailer dudes) it looks so fucking cheesy and cliche with a load of that childish humor smeared all over it. Ugh...

The animation art style is rather decent but very kiddy.










Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on May 13, 2022, 03:54:43 AM
Quote
But even beyond those muppets writing it (and just from the honest trailer dudes) it looks so fucking cheesy and cliche with a load of that childish humor smeared all over it. Ugh...

Not as much childish, as way worse - High School Humour.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 13, 2022, 08:08:35 AM
Still better than Rings of Power, I bet.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on May 13, 2022, 08:09:22 AM
Quote
But even beyond those muppets writing it (and just from the honest trailer dudes) it looks so fucking cheesy and cliche with a load of that childish humor smeared all over it. Ugh...

Not as much childish, as way worse - High School Humour.

Fair point.
Title: Re: Vox Machina - From the Same People Who Brought You Critical Role
Post by: Wrath of God on January 25, 2023, 04:10:43 PM
Quote
Still better than Rings of Power, I bet.

Most definitely. I'm gonna even say despite being riddled with High School humour (less so in season 2) it's quite consistently has more gravitas than Rings of Power. So there's that.

I must say I really enjoy how they presented Chroma Conclave in this season, this is really very impressive presentation of ancient chromatic wyrms in full glory.
So it seems this season kinda slows with wackiness a little bit, so it's kinda cool.

ALAS. There is one major thing in episode 2 that demands strong ridicule. I'm just gonna show you the screen

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/326921444_3362550920689225_5666563068365271527_n.png?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aee45a&_nc_ohc=7oPFzdYHm1QAX-dxgOc&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&oh=03_AdSKZ5eZj0gW2NDZli8NM89XXLmmRJ6be_8I1XxX2TjLxg&oe=63F7DE29)