Since that other thread has derailed so frakking much, thought I'd start this one for those curious about the original story.

Here is the latest :
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080820/NEWS01/80820104

QuoteKNOXVILLE — The man accused in a fatal church shooting that left two people dead and six wounded has been indicted on murder charges.

A Knox County grand jury on Wednesday indicted Jim Adkisson on two charges of first-degree murder and six counts of attempted first-degree murder.

The 58-year-old Powell man is being held on $1 million bond. His public defender has said he plans an insanity defense.

A gunman walked into the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church sanctuary July 27 and fired three lethal blasts into the congregation of about 200 before being wrestled to the floor.

Killed were 60-year-old Greg McKendry and 61-year-old Linda Kraeger.

And also this story :
http://www.wbir.com/news/breaking/story.aspx?storyid=62461&catid=29

QuoteJim Adkisson, the man accused of shooting eight people in a West Knoxville church, is facing new charges.

A ten-count indictment was released Wednesday afternoon that includes charges of first degree murder, felony murder and attempted first degree murder.

The grand jury said there was enough evidence suggesting Adkisson intentionally killed church member Greg McKendry with premeditation, as well as Linda Kraeger, and that he attempted to kill six others.

Adkisson was previously charged with McKendry's murder, but the grand jury added first degree murder charges in Kraeger's death.

Police say Adkisson walked into the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church during a service on July 27 and opened fire.

No date has yet been set for an arraignment.  

Several of the victims are now recovering:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25902884/

Appears MSNBC put a slight slant on the news , but this part I believe is most relevant:

QuoteAdkisson's ex-wife once belonged to the church but hadn't attended in years, said Ted Jones, the congregation's president. Police spokesman Darrell DeBusk declined to comment on whether investigators think the ex-wife's link was a factor in the attack.

Adkisson, who had been on the verge of losing his food stamps, remained jailed Tuesday on $1 million bond after being charged with one count of murder. More charges are expected.

The attack Sunday morning lasted only minutes. But the anger behind it may have been building for months, if not years.

My opinion, he went off on people because he had too much anger in him and made bad choices in his life that he wouldn't own up to. The failure of his marriage swayed him to pick a church that she was once associated with

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;237643My opinion, he went off on people because he had too much anger in him and made bad choices in his life that he wouldn't own up to.

Which made him the perfect target for the right wing hate machine's "blame liberals, blame minorities, blame women, blame jews, blame Clinton, blame everyone but yourself" rhetoric.

ETA:  Insanity defense?  Highly unlikely to work.  Being depressed and lashing out in hatred may be signs of mental distress and generally poor mental health, but that's a far cry from the insanity defense.

I would seriously fear for the future of this country if buying into the right wing rhetoric of blaming liberals and gays and allowing oneself to be extolled into violence becomes a justifiable defense.  That will make the twinkie defense look like nothing.

Quote from: Jackalope;237650Which made him the perfect target for the right wing hate machine's "blame liberals, blame minorities, blame women, blame jews, blame Clinton, blame everyone but yourself" rhetoric.

Jackalope,
 You ruined/derailed one thread.
Pease don't do so a second time.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;237652Jackalope,
 You ruined/derailed one thread.
Pease don't do so a second time.

Hey, I have an idea:  If you don't want to hear about it, stop posting about it!

I know you want to delude yourself into believing that this act somehow had nothing to do with politics, but -- and listen carefully, dickcheese -- I DON'T CARE TO SUPPORT YOUR DELUSIONS AND I WILL NOT BE PARTY TO PERPETUATING THEM.  I am not going to pretend politics had nothing to do with this, because politics have everything to do with it, and ignoring that element ONLY SERVES TO ENSURE THAT IT HAPPENS AGAIN.

You can call it derailing the thread, or ruining it, but you're a fatheaded idiot, and I won't limit my analysis to only that which your feeble pinhead can accept.

I mean what the fuck do you want Ed?  A big pathetic public pity party, where we all Boo Hoo Hoo in public, rend our garments, rub ashes on our face, and beg Mighty Cheesus to explain why bad things happen to good people?  

OH WHY LORD WHY DO MENTALLY DISTURBED WHITE MEN KEEP TARGETING LIBERALS AND GAYS FOR VIOLENCE?  YOUR SERVANT ED HAS EXPLAINED THAT THE HATE LITERATURE FOUND IN HIS CAR AND THE LONG RANTING NOTE THAT MIRRORED THE HATRED IN THOSE BOOKS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TRAGIC EVENT OR HIS SELECTION OF TARGETS, AND SO LORD SINCE WE HAVE BLINDED OURSELVES TO THE FUCKING OBVIOUS EXPLANATION WE ARE AT A LOSS TO EXPLAIN THIS TRAGEDY!!!  BUT WE FEEL BAD, SO VERY BAD, LOOK AT US IN OUR PUBLIC SYMPATHY AND PITY, ARE WE NOT GOOD PEOPLE?  ARE WE NOT PROPERLY SADDENED WHEN STRANGERS DIE?

Dude, Here's something that will rock your world:  I don't give a fuck about those two people who died, or the six who were wounded.  their lives are meaningless, and certainly of no greater consequences than the lives of all the other people who died that day (the ones we aren't crying over in public).

Ah fuck it.  You're a sick, pathetic piece of shit who is too stupiud to ever understand fucking ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING.  I hope you die of a heart attack Ed, you DISGUST me, you miserable sack of shit.

What a waste of human life you are.

PS: And stop using your icon to remind us that you perv on girls way to young for you.

Poor dumb bastard.

I really feel bad for the families involved.

Quote from: shewolf;237686Poor dumb bastard.

I really feel bad for the families involved.

Hey, give Jackie a break.

Quote from: Werekoala;237688Hey, give Jackie a break.

Holy bleep!
You just almost made me fall on the floor laughing, you silly Koala.

Thank you.


- Ed

Of course the guy was insane. It's generally the insane that butcher people. What I'll never get is why that is a valid defense. Seems to me that if you are insane you are more of a danger to people around and should more likely be kept away from the rest of us.

Quote from: CavScout;237717Of course the guy was insane. It's generally the insane that butcher people. What I'll never get is why that is a valid defense. Seems to me that if you are insane you are more of a danger to people around and should more likely be kept away from the rest of us.

He would be put into a mental institution for life, more than likely.

Quote from: jswa;237719He would be put into a mental institution for life, more than likely.

Not necessarily. If you are found "not guilty by reason of insanity" you can be released when your are "cured". AFAIK, there is no minimum term of confinement if found "not guilty by reason of insanity", it's basically an acquittal once you are found to be sane again.

At this point, its now up to a jury or judge to decide at a later time. Jeff told me in a PM that the town is pretty much healing and all that .
 Good to know.

Generally speaking, all the Unitarian Universalist churches I've been to have had really nice welcoming people.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;237725Generally speaking, all the Unitarian Universalist churches I've been to have had really nice welcoming people.

Unitarians don't look at me funny when I say things like, "I'm a secular humanist," so they get points in my book.

Quote from: jswa;237728Unitarians don't look at me funny when I say things like, "I'm a secular humanist," so they get points in my book.

Probably because both of those groups include people who try to have an open mind.

- Ed C.

Quote from: CavScout;237717Of course the guy was insane. It's generally the insane that butcher people. What I'll never get is why that is a valid defense. Seems to me that if you are insane you are more of a danger to people around and should more likely be kept away from the rest of us.

Insanity is only a defense when the person is so delusional that they cannot be expected to make decisions as a normal person would.

The insanity defense was first used in defense of Daniel M'Naghten in 1843.  M'Naghten suffered from paranoid delusions, and believe sincerely that Robert Peel -- who organized the first London Metropolitan Police Force (and from whom we get the term "Bobbies") -- had created an organized police force for the sole purpose of hunting down and killing M'Naghten himself, so in an entirely rational act of self-defense, he attempted (spectacularly unsuccessfully) to kill Robert Peel.  The court decided that justice would not be served by imprisoning M'Naghten for an act that would (by 19th century standards)

Likewise, if "John Smith" is a shut-in who covers his windows with tinfoil to keep the mind control rays from scrambling his brain, and you're an EMT who breaks into his house on an emergency call, and he shoots you because he cannot imagine a reality where you are NOT a lizard-beast from Subterra come to harvest his liver, then it's really not fair to send him to jail (where he'll surely die).

Consider events from John Smith's perspective.  If an alien creature with some wicked organ harvesting tool busted down your door, and you had a gun, wouldn't you shoot it?  I sure as hell would.  That is exactly what a reasonable person would do in those circumstances.   So how do you judge the actions of a man who reacts in a reasonable way to a delusional reality that he cannot be convince out of by any amount of evidence?  He should go to a mental institution, as he's clearly a schizophrenic who hasn't received treatment of any sort.

Adkisson was not living in a delusional reality.  He knew who he was shooting, and he knew why he was shooting them.  He also knew that shooting them was wrong.  That's not criminally defensible insanity.

The title of this thread was referring to the possible defense strategy - not whether the OP agrees with it or not.

Zheesh!


- Ed C.