Meanwhile, in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave:

Quote from: jhkimI'm all for chasing them to the shadows in the form of criticizing them and condemning them -- I just don't want fantasy equated with real crime.

So simple possession of photographs of actual child abuse shouldn't be a crime?

For the possessor of the photographs, it's just a fantasy, after all.

I mean, try doing an anime giving a friendly look at Arab suicide bombers, see what happens.

As I see it, there is some shit we just shouldn't tolerate, and the law's good for that. That includes "just fantasy", when it's in a certain form, explicit and published like that.

A funny society we have in the West: we infantilise adults (blokes living at home at 30, wanting us all to be "consumers" sucking at the tit of the media), and we sexualise children. It's all a bit loopy.

Well yeah Kyle, photographs of children engaging in sex acts is child porn and is rightly illegal. As far as possesion of this hentai cartoon school girl porn - as far as I know it's not and falls into the fantasy category John is talking about.

You raise some interesting points about the porn industry, alas as long as folks have weird fantasies there will always be consenting adults willing to sell their bodies to fullfil them.

I more interested in cracking down on child prostitution. Now this is something I can get worked up about. Like actual child porn this is evil that crosess all national boundaries.

The sexualization of children takes many forms. droog's picture is one side. In my country amongst the Muslims it's covering the child up in the hijab (tudung). Non-Muslims have always found this a bit strange. The hijab is supposedly for covering up the so-called "enticing" sexuality of a woman.  So why are little girls encouraged to wear it. See where I'm going with this?

Regards,
David R

Droog,

 Even the majority of Americans thought the contests that photo is associated with were quite a bit odd.

Quote from: KoltarEven the majority of Americans thought the contests that photo is associated with were quite a bit odd.

I'm sure. But they're not banned (indeed, they're quite popular). And nobody's making sweeping statements about 'Americans' and 'child porn'.

Quote from: droogI'm sure. But they're not banned (indeed, they're quite popular). And nobody's making sweeping statements about 'Americans' and 'child porn'.

They're NOT popular - even less so , since the tabloid case involving that girl.


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarThey're NOT popular

Figures? Or are you pulling that out of your arse? Are they still happening?

How popular is child-porn anime in Japan?

Quote from: KoltarThey're NOT popular - even less so , since the tabloid case involving that girl.


- Ed C.

Maybe not in the North (even Cincinnati is in the North...barely), but across the Ohio and among lower-middle class  Southerners, it is pretty damn popular.  Child beauty contests are pretty damn huge down in the Deep South (and the Bible Belt...).

A quick Google search of "child beauty pageants" found 3 big ones, two in Texas and one in Illinois:

http://www.httexas.com/
http://www.universalroyalty.com/
http://www.ildreamgirlsusa.com/

I'd like to note that, disturbingly enough the Illinois one is in Schaumburg (a NW suburb of Chicago) and the director of it lives in my HOME TOWN of New Lenox, IL (A far south 'burb of Chicago and the heart of a red, red county).  These pageants are popular and, apparently, everywhere in the US.

It is a slippery slope tho.  If cartoon depictions of illegal acts become illegal, then what about realistic depictions of illegal acts?  If those are also illegal, then you have abolished nearly the entire entertainment industry.  

And by that I mostly mean acts depicting violence, theft, etc.  If we're going to  hold "fantasy porn" to that standard, then let's hold "crime porn", "murder porn", etc to the same standard.  

Oh, and those RPGs which depict or reference killing...

Quote from: CallousIt is a slippery slope tho.  If cartoon depictions of illegal acts become illegal, then what about realistic depictions of illegal acts?  If those are also illegal, then you have abolished nearly the entire entertainment industry.  

And by that I mostly mean acts depicting violence, theft, etc.  If we're going to  hold "fantasy porn" to that standard, then let's hold "crime porn", "murder porn", etc to the same standard.  

Oh, and those RPGs which depict or reference killing...

I don't know if I've mentioned it recently, but the Japanese media apparently had a field day recently over some teen violence that closely resembled things seen in some anime at the time. The endings of Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni and School Days were canceled for a while, IIRC. Although they both got aired eventually... and one got a second season... lord knows Japan couldn't have done without the TV series about high schoolers killing each other with axes and baseball bats.

Quote from: CallousIt is a slippery slope tho.  If cartoon depictions of illegal acts become illegal, then what about realistic depictions of illegal acts?

When people start jerkin' off to 24, Rambo, or Lord of the Rings, let us know.

That's the difference. It's the halfway step. What's in someone's head is harmless, and what they physically do may be harmful. In between is masturbation. Once a heap of blokes actually, not figuratively, have their dicks in one hand and their kleenex in the other, that's when the fantasy is making the transition from "just in the head" to "acting out." That's when the thing's dangerous.

Quote from: joewolzThese pageants are popular and, apparently, everywhere in the US.

Well, I agree that they are plenty creepy.  So is the argument here that because things like that happen in the United States, too, that it's OK what happens in Japan and vice-versa?  Or is this just typical squeamishness about criticizing another culture no matter what it is (e.g., I've seen feminists defend female circumcision because they didn't want to criticize the women in other cultures who are involved in it)?  I'd rather say that the sexualization of children, particularly pre-teens, is pretty creepy no matter where it happens and regardless of the form, though I agree that actually victimizing real little girls is worse than simply fantasizing about it.

Quote from: John MorrowSo is the argument here that because things like that happen in the United States, too, that it's OK what happens in Japan and vice-versa?  

I don't see anyone here making this argument. droog's picture was just a reminder that creepy shit happens everywhere.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: John MorrowSo is the argument here that because things like that happen in the United States, too, that it's OK what happens in Japan and vice-versa?

That's not the impression I got at all.  I think he was poking the blind eye in hopes that it might come into focus and see that this sort of creepiness happens pretty much everywhere, but mainfesting in different forms.

QuoteOr is this just typical squeamishness about criticizing another culture no matter what it is ... ?

Please. This is droog you're talking about. I never gotten the impression that he's squeamish about criticising anyone for anything.

!i!

Quote from: David RI don't see anyone here making this argument. droog's picture was just a reminder that creepy shit happens everywhere.

And I don't think that anyone was making the argument that it doesn't.  Why do we need a reminder?