Quote from: laffingboyI'm for it, too.

But only until we can replace it with something really bitchin', like antimatter, or one of those cool geothermal tap things.

Geothermal taps would indeed be cool when compared to antimatter. Antimatter would go from bitchin to BOOMIN' if you didn't handle it with hyperuberultraextreme care.:eek: But as a stardrive for a spacecraft, antimatter would be perfect, though you wouldn't want to get in the way of the gamma rays coming from the rear of the ship!

Quote from: RPGPunditDude, your dad had Homer Simpson's job???

RPGPundit

Actually, in a very basic way yes.  He's a safety inspector at various Nuke plants around the country.

Again, I feel that I should remind people that the french have a very safe, cost effective, sane nuclear program that works efficiently and satisfies the needs of an energy hungry nation quite well.

But then france does have a more socialist mentality than america, and in france a lot of america's "Business as usual" corporate/government corruption would not be tolerated.

Quote from: Dominus NoxAgain, I feel that I should remind people that the french have a very safe, cost effective, sane nuclear program that works efficiently and satisfies the needs of an energy hungry nation quite well.

Let's look back at the accidents in France alone in 1980.

   LA HAGUE, FRANCE - Five workers at a French nuclear reprocessing plant at Le Hague in Normandy were exposed to radiation after an accident at the plant yesterday. ("The Age", "The West Australian" 22/5/86 )

 CATTENOM 1 & 2, FRANCE - 8,000 litres of water initially thought to be from the primary coolant system flooded underground cellars at Units 1 and 2 of the Cattenom nuclear plant on August 23. The flooding, reportedly due to human error, left a valve open and is said to have destroyed electrical systems and pipelines. Later reports say it was not coolant water but a leak of river water. ("Nucleonics Week" 4,115 8/9/86, "Financial Times" 12/9/86, "The Scotsman" 12/9/86, WISE NC260 3/10/86).

 SAINT LAURENT DES EAUX, FRANCE - An accident occurred at the second reactor at Saint Laurent des EAUX. No official description was given but it was admitted that repairs would take several weeks. It was reported that there was a break in the protection around the fuel charges. A similar accident there in 1969 led to a shutdown for a year. (W.I.S.E. Ibid) (mar 13, 1980)

 CHOOZ, FRANCE - The Chooz nuclear power plant closed until the end of May due to a damaged reactor. (W.I.S.E. Ibid) (27 Mar, 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - France came very close to a major nuclear accident when fire caused a breakdown of the cooling system at the waste dump and reprocessing plant at La Hague. The fire destroyed the transformer leaving the emergency generators without current. Electricity is vital for the pumps which work non-stop cooling the highly radioactive waste in the giant storage tanks. With the cooling system not working, the tanks began to boil. It was estimated that it would only take three hours before the water would evaporate and the waste would be spread into the atmosphere. With the failure of the electricity, everything went out of action - the instruments used for checking the Plutonium to make sure no critical mass is formed, the central instrument board, the intercom and loudspeaker system used to warn workers to evacuate. All areas of the plant were contaminated. It will take several months to repair the electrical installations. Authorities have tried to deny that any failure occurred. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.4 p.15) (15 Apr 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - Divers completed repairs to a faulty undersea pipeline which carries radioactive water from the nuclear treatment plant for the second time in a month. This time the breach occurred in calm water and spilt radioactive water into the channel. This is the 39th time the pipe has broken. Unionists have called for a six months closure of the factory claiming the equipment is "decrepit". The Regional Anti-Nuclear Committee has demanded closure of the plant saying the health of the workers, neighbouring populations, and consumers of sea and land produce were being affected. (International Nuclear News Service, No.12 p.12) (Apr 1980)

 FESSENHEIM, FRANCE - According to Mr. ETEMAD, a nuclear expert who used to work with the French reactor building company FRAMATOME, there are cracks in the Fessenheim nuclear power plant where ten relatively minor accidents have occurred. The Director of the plant had to admit that faulty parts had been built into the reactor. There are probably cracks in the part which connects the pipes to the reactor vessel, a place which cannot be reached until after the reactor starts operating. This is one of the most sensitive parts of the reactor because of high pressure and temperature changes. Etemad estimates the part could break within five years of starting the reactor. The reactor had already been operating for three years. The resulting accident would be more serious than Harrisburg. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.3 p.9) (Apr 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - 300-500 litres of liquid containing Plutonium (1 to 20 grams/ltr) was spilt on concrete floor. Cause of accident unknown but thought to be another breakdown in patched up electricity work. (W.I.S.E. Ibid) (21 May 1980)

 MARCOULE, FRANCE - Two workers radiated during an explosion at the nuclear factory in Marcoule. Similar accident occurred two weeks earlier. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.5 July/September 1980 p.27) (5 Jun 1980)

 FESSENHEIM 1 & 2, FRANCE - Both units at the Fessenheim nuclear reactor in France were shut down after a defect in Unit 1 caused the leakage of "some water." News of the breakdown was withheld from the press for one day because the plant operators did not want to 'worry the public'. Fessenheim has been proved to be one of the most accident prone reactors in Europe. (W.I.S.E . vol. .2 No.6 October/December 1980 p.10) (occured 8 Aug 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - An accident occurred at the La Hague reprocessing plant, on the coast of Normandy. The accident, which occurred at the plant's temporary waste storage site, resulted in the release of large quantities of radioactive water. Although workers discovered the leak immediately on 22nd September, it was not until 1st October that the plant's Director admitted the failure of the pump but denied that any contamination had taken place. On 3rd October the S.N.P.E.A. - C.F.D.T. the leading trade union at La Hague, distributed a written statement concerning the seriousness of the accident to all plant employees. In the paper the union also charged that the plant officials had attempted to cover up the contamination leak in an effort to down play the seriousness of the accident. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.6 October/December, 1980 p.21) (occurred 22 Sep 1980)


Not looking so good. Any better now?

Apparently not. France has 59 active nuclear reactors. These are on average over 17 years old (you can see a list of them all here), and will all have reached the end of their projected design life by 2010. They have 1 under construction.

Any machine as it grows old requires more maintenance, and has more accidents. Not one nuclear reactor has ever been completely dismantled and decommissioned - typically they just close it down, remove the fuel rods, put a padlock on the gate and walk away. Someone else's problem!

Plus, you know, the French have nuclear weapons. And if we suppose a world full of Frances which are all "safe" with their nuclear power, still, that's a world of countries with nuclear weapons. Even if living next door to a station gave you vitamin C and a larger penis, still, there's the bombs. More nuclear power stations in the world means more nuclear bombs in the world.

No, merci.

Quote from: JimBobOzLet's look back at the accidents in France alone in 1980.

   LA HAGUE, FRANCE - Five workers at a French nuclear reprocessing plant at Le Hague in Normandy were exposed to radiation after an accident at the plant yesterday. ("The Age", "The West Australian" 22/5/86 )

 CATTENOM 1 & 2, FRANCE - 8,000 litres of water initially thought to be from the primary coolant system flooded underground cellars at Units 1 and 2 of the Cattenom nuclear plant on August 23. The flooding, reportedly due to human error, left a valve open and is said to have destroyed electrical systems and pipelines. Later reports say it was not coolant water but a leak of river water. ("Nucleonics Week" 4,115 8/9/86, "Financial Times" 12/9/86, "The Scotsman" 12/9/86, WISE NC260 3/10/86).

 SAINT LAURENT DES EAUX, FRANCE - An accident occurred at the second reactor at Saint Laurent des EAUX. No official description was given but it was admitted that repairs would take several weeks. It was reported that there was a break in the protection around the fuel charges. A similar accident there in 1969 led to a shutdown for a year. (W.I.S.E. Ibid) (mar 13, 1980)

 CHOOZ, FRANCE - The Chooz nuclear power plant closed until the end of May due to a damaged reactor. (W.I.S.E. Ibid) (27 Mar, 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - France came very close to a major nuclear accident when fire caused a breakdown of the cooling system at the waste dump and reprocessing plant at La Hague. The fire destroyed the transformer leaving the emergency generators without current. Electricity is vital for the pumps which work non-stop cooling the highly radioactive waste in the giant storage tanks. With the cooling system not working, the tanks began to boil. It was estimated that it would only take three hours before the water would evaporate and the waste would be spread into the atmosphere. With the failure of the electricity, everything went out of action - the instruments used for checking the Plutonium to make sure no critical mass is formed, the central instrument board, the intercom and loudspeaker system used to warn workers to evacuate. All areas of the plant were contaminated. It will take several months to repair the electrical installations. Authorities have tried to deny that any failure occurred. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.4 p.15) (15 Apr 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - Divers completed repairs to a faulty undersea pipeline which carries radioactive water from the nuclear treatment plant for the second time in a month. This time the breach occurred in calm water and spilt radioactive water into the channel. This is the 39th time the pipe has broken. Unionists have called for a six months closure of the factory claiming the equipment is "decrepit". The Regional Anti-Nuclear Committee has demanded closure of the plant saying the health of the workers, neighbouring populations, and consumers of sea and land produce were being affected. (International Nuclear News Service, No.12 p.12) (Apr 1980)

 FESSENHEIM, FRANCE - According to Mr. ETEMAD, a nuclear expert who used to work with the French reactor building company FRAMATOME, there are cracks in the Fessenheim nuclear power plant where ten relatively minor accidents have occurred. The Director of the plant had to admit that faulty parts had been built into the reactor. There are probably cracks in the part which connects the pipes to the reactor vessel, a place which cannot be reached until after the reactor starts operating. This is one of the most sensitive parts of the reactor because of high pressure and temperature changes. Etemad estimates the part could break within five years of starting the reactor. The reactor had already been operating for three years. The resulting accident would be more serious than Harrisburg. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.3 p.9) (Apr 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - 300-500 litres of liquid containing Plutonium (1 to 20 grams/ltr) was spilt on concrete floor. Cause of accident unknown but thought to be another breakdown in patched up electricity work. (W.I.S.E. Ibid) (21 May 1980)

 MARCOULE, FRANCE - Two workers radiated during an explosion at the nuclear factory in Marcoule. Similar accident occurred two weeks earlier. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.5 July/September 1980 p.27) (5 Jun 1980)

 FESSENHEIM 1 & 2, FRANCE - Both units at the Fessenheim nuclear reactor in France were shut down after a defect in Unit 1 caused the leakage of "some water." News of the breakdown was withheld from the press for one day because the plant operators did not want to 'worry the public'. Fessenheim has been proved to be one of the most accident prone reactors in Europe. (W.I.S.E . vol. .2 No.6 October/December 1980 p.10) (occured 8 Aug 1980)

 LA HAGUE, FRANCE - An accident occurred at the La Hague reprocessing plant, on the coast of Normandy. The accident, which occurred at the plant's temporary waste storage site, resulted in the release of large quantities of radioactive water. Although workers discovered the leak immediately on 22nd September, it was not until 1st October that the plant's Director admitted the failure of the pump but denied that any contamination had taken place. On 3rd October the S.N.P.E.A. - C.F.D.T. the leading trade union at La Hague, distributed a written statement concerning the seriousness of the accident to all plant employees. In the paper the union also charged that the plant officials had attempted to cover up the contamination leak in an effort to down play the seriousness of the accident. (W.I.S.E. Vol.2 No.6 October/December, 1980 p.21) (occurred 22 Sep 1980)


Not looking so good. Any better now?

Apparently not. France has 59 active nuclear reactors. These are on average over 17 years old (you can see a list of them all here), and will all have reached the end of their projected design life by 2010. They have 1 under construction.

Any machine as it grows old requires more maintenance, and has more accidents. Not one nuclear reactor has ever been completely dismantled and decommissioned - typically they just close it down, remove the fuel rods, put a padlock on the gate and walk away. Someone else's problem!

Plus, you know, the French have nuclear weapons. And if we suppose a world full of Frances which are all "safe" with their nuclear power, still, that's a world of countries with nuclear weapons. Even if living next door to a station gave you vitamin C and a larger penis, still, there's the bombs. More nuclear power stations in the world means more nuclear bombs in the world.

No, merci.

As I looked thru your little list, which I'm sure was composed by antinuclear power advocates, I noticed that no one was measurably injured in any of them. The nebulous term "irradiated" was applied to a cople workers, but how much "irradiation" did they get? Millirems? I get irradiated every time I walk outside during daylight as I'm exposed to radiation from the sun. I'm going to be "irradiated" tomorrow when I get a dental xray, I get "Irradiated" when I change the battery in my smoke detector which uses a small amount of radioactive material.

So how much were the people in these reports "irradiated"?

Other reports say 'radioactive water" was released. Again, how radioactive? How much was released into the volume of the surrounding water, and how rapidly was it dispersed?

All these anti-nuclear reports use temrs like "irradiated" and "radiation release" while rarely, if ever, going into much details because they might not want to let people know that the typical basement can expose you to more radiation, via radon gas, than these "incidents" do.

But then again i wouldn't espext you to understand any of this, jimboob, you're nothing but a colossal asshole and brains are located in skulls, not assholes.

Not power related, interesting nonetheless.

Mishap In Dismantling Nuclear Warhead
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Mishap_In_Dismantling_Nuclear_Warhead_999.html

Quote from: RockViperNot power related, interesting nonetheless.

Mishap In Dismantling Nuclear Warhead
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Mishap_In_Dismantling_Nuclear_Warhead_999.html

This sounds a little suspicious to me. Nuclear warheads do NOT "accidentally" detonate under any conditions. There are too many safeties built in, even to the cruder soviet warheads, to allow for "accidental" detonation.

The detonation sequence has to be done very carefully and precisely, with a lot of safeties previously being disarmed.

Let me give you an example: There was a disaster at an american missile silo years ago, and a nuclear missile actually exploded in it's silo, killing several workers. Note that I said the MISSILE exploded, not the warhead. Apparently while servicing and refueling a missile, someone dropped a wrench which struck a fuel valve, broke it, triggered a spark and set off the fuel, which exploded in the silo.

The warhead was blown out of the silo like a round out of a mortar, landing some distance outside the perimeter fence. it was leaking radiation but it did not detonate, obviously.

it's pretty hard to get a nuke to go off, with the shaped charges having to all be detonated simulteaously and a lot fo safete features prevent that from happening, accidental detonations just don't happen, even when nuclear weapons have been lost at extreme depth in the oceans.

Looks like incompetence.

Here is the NNSA press release

http://www.nnsa.doe.gov/docs/newsreleases/2006/PR_2006-11-29_NA-06-45.htm

and the DOE enforcement letter
http://www.hss.doe.gov/Enforce/els.html

[Nox]That US Department of Energy, especially their National Nuclear Security Administration, they must be "antinuclear power advocates"! And the FAA are against flying, and the FCC wants you to turn off your tv and radio!

What a bunch of fucking commies! [/Nox]

Quote from: Dominus NoxThis sounds a little suspicious to me. Nuclear warheads do NOT "accidentally" detonate under any conditions. There are too many safeties built in, even to the cruder soviet warheads, to allow for "accidental" detonation.

Actual detonation, yes, but getting a sub-critical or even critical mass while dismantling one is quite easy

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonActual detonation, yes, but getting a sub-critical or even critical mass while dismantling one is quite easy

Ah, the so called "fizzled nuke" that doesn't really go BOOM, but makes one hell of a nuclear mess by scattering intensley radioactive matter about. Not something anyone needs, but dismantling them in large, sealed buildings can keep even that hellish mess under control.

I'm all for nuclear power. I couldn't give a shit about future generations. :incrediblehulk: