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Author Topic: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)  (Read 1307 times)

Trond

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They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« on: January 15, 2022, 02:04:19 PM »
Oh boy, I can't see what could possibly go wrong.

https://screenrant.com/zorro-female-series-nbc-cw-move-network-update/

Lurkndog

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2022, 02:36:43 PM »
There was a serial back in 1944 called Zorro's Black Whip, starring Linda Sterling as Zorro's niece who takes over the family business.

It seems they had partial rights to use Zorro in the title, but Zorro himself doesn't appear in the serial, or get mentioned by name. Linda Sterling's character is called The Black Whip, but is clearly a Zorro type character who uses a whip and pistols instead of a sword.

Also, everyone thinks The Black Whip is a man, including her boyfriend.

It was kinda fun, you can find the whole thing in the public domain.


RandyB

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2022, 04:12:18 PM »
This was implied in the conclusion to the relatively recent Mask of Zorro film. The new Zorro, male, married the daughter of Don de la Vega. And their firstborn was a girl.

Trond

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2022, 09:10:11 AM »
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine “zorra”, you’re not saying what you think you’re saying. ;D

Ghostmaker

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2022, 09:34:02 AM »
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine “zorra”, you’re not saying what you think you’re saying. ;D
Oh boy, this is one of those fun things about foreign languages that English speakers don't realize, right? :)

hedgehobbit

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2022, 10:45:28 AM »
Oh boy, I can't see what could possibly go wrong.

It's hard for me to care about something like this when the owner of Zorro is 100% behind it. If they want to ruin their character, they can ruin their character.

However, I feel that there is something else going on here. I'm not completely convinced that this isn't a work. Create a terrible version of an legacy character and let everyone get upset. Then, a few years later, introduce a new version that's closer to the source material and claim you "listened to the fans" to get another round of positive buzz. The Sonic movie from 2020 or Ghostbusters Afterlife are examples of this.

Of course, others have speculated that this is just a means of circumventing the problem with this character being in the public domain. The more versions of the character that you can publish, the less likely that anyone will get away with using the public domain books as possible source material.

Omega

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2022, 11:12:46 AM »
Was going to mention the female Zorro from the 40s but have been beaten to the punch-line. There was also the Queen of Swords TV series from around 2000 which while not a female Zorro. Was a female swordswoman in mid 1800s California who is pretty much Zorro in all but name and gender.

As for the creator of Zorro being on board for this? Um, news flash... He died over 60 years ago.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2022, 11:31:16 PM by Omega »

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2022, 04:07:12 PM »
Also, the heroine in Queen of Swords was established as being subject to human biology. She wasn't as strong as a man, so she had to rely on her wits to win against men. I think it's a great way to show how women can fight without ignoring biology. It's very dangerous to teach young girls that they can beat men in fights through brute force.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2022, 04:10:15 PM »
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine “zorra”, you’re not saying what you think you’re saying. ;D
Oh boy, this is one of those fun things about foreign languages that English speakers don't realize, right? :)
Well, the word vixen doesn't have purely positive connections in English either.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vixen
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zorra#Spanish

Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.

Zirunel

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2022, 05:08:22 PM »
One problem is that the name Zorro is itself male (i.e. a male fox), and if you call a woman the feminine “zorra”, you’re not saying what you think you’re saying. ;D
Oh boy, this is one of those fun things about foreign languages that English speakers don't realize, right? :)
Well, the word vixen doesn't have purely positive connections in English either.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vixen
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zorra#Spanish

Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.

Therefore, Zorrx.

Trond

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2022, 10:26:27 AM »

Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.

The not so positive reading is what comes out of Google autotranslate. Try translating “she’s a real fox” to Spanish and then back to English again 😀

Ghostmaker

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2022, 12:39:48 PM »

Technically, zorra can mean a cunning and/or attractive woman, but it can also mean... not positive things.

The not so positive reading is what comes out of Google autotranslate. Try translating “she’s a real fox” to Spanish and then back to English again 😀
LOL. Reminds me of that story I saw about the 'LGBTQ-friendly' cryptocurrency being launched. Except they called it 'Maricoin'. Which is a bit too close to 'maricon'.

I am not a Spanish speaker but my understanding is that unless you're trying to pick a fight, you probably shouldn't use 'maricon' in conversation.

hedgehobbit

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2022, 01:46:25 PM »
Was going to mention the female Zorro from the 40s but have been beaten to the punch-line.

Neither the character from the 40s, nor the Queen of Swords character were actually named Zorro. To my knowledge, this is the first time a woman will be named Zorro in a production with all the rights to Zorro (that is, ZPI, the trademark holders).

Quote
As for the creator of Zorro being on board for this? Um, news flash... He died over 60 years ago.

I specifically said owner, not creator. What the creator thinks is irrelevant, even if he was still alive.

It's very dangerous to teach young girls that they can beat men in fights through brute force.

Yes, but it has resulted in some pretty hilarious YouTube videos.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 01:53:27 PM by hedgehobbit »

Trond

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2022, 07:02:26 PM »

It's hard for me to care about something like this when the owner of Zorro is 100% behind it. If they want to ruin their character, they can ruin their character.


So when DO you care?

hedgehobbit

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Re: They're coming for Zorro now (gender-swapped Zorro)
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2022, 11:51:24 AM »
So when DO you care?

I'd care if a company was making a good product that respected their established IP. But if a company is trying to create a controversy by changing the sex of a historic character, then the worst thing for me to do would be to react to such a change. That's what they want.