Quote from: Spike;319243You know that, and I know that, but some other guys seem to think that because there are some unrelated movies that share a name... well... I just don't have time to address thier confusions, you know?

Whew, you had me scared there for a minute.

Proper science fiction is very hard to do in commercial entertainment media.  This is due in large part to a cultural inertia, both at large and within the entertainment business community, that's ill-educated in the sciences and poisoned against them.  This, in turn, leads to the population at large not being able to follow most hard science fiction (or its social science counterpart), but will accept an import from another genre if draped in the trappings.  (Horror, in particular, is often using such drag.)

If you can strip out the science or technology conceits out of the story and not have that story fall apart as impossible, then you don't have a science fiction story.  You have something else in drag; certain uniforms of drag are so prevalent that we've given them labels for convenience, starting with "space opera", and now including "science fantasy" (to cover Star Wars properly).  This isn't to say that they aren't good--Smith's Lensman is so influential that most today do not see it's effect via the Jedi and the Green Lantern Corps--just that they aren't science fiction.  Proper labeling and classification is a good thing.

QuoteIf you can strip out the science or technology conceits out of the story and not have that story fall apart as impossible, then you don't have a science fiction story.

Whereas I'm of the opinion that SF at it's core is about speculative social issues, and that if your story falls apart without the technobabble and drawn out scientific explanations, what you really have is a wank not worth the paper it's printed on.

The problem with SF isn't people using space and science as a chrome for another story, it's people taking the chrome for being what the whole genre is about and not having a good story underneath it.

Some of the most famous SF authors of all time would fail horribly under the litmus of the current fandom's "proper SF" rubrics, a term I might note carries with it a monstrous amount of pretentiousness.  At least "hard SF" was just presented as an alternate flavor, not setting it's self up in onetruewayist fashion.

You left out Lost in Space, Land of the Giants, and The Time Tunnel!:confused:

Of the three the only one I have even heard of is Lost In Space, and I only know the single movie.  Do you REALLY want me to go there?

Just for fun, I'm going to take on Eliot's challenge to discuss three additional Sci Fi franchises. Since I have never even heard of two of them, and never really watched the first, you'll have to take everything I say with a HUGE grain of salt.

Lost in Space: Lost is Space is, of course, in the Classic style of Sci-Fi, the Silver Era.  Lacking the overall plot arc of later series, LiS was, in its time, a standard episodic show that happened to be Science Fiction.  Overall it was reasonable 'hard' science for its time, excepting primarily the nature of an episodic situational drama involving space travel: The Robinsons found a lot more out there than they should have, flying blind.

What the LiS shows lacked was a strong underlying human theme... except for possibly: never trust your doctor.  Like many Silver Age Sci-Fi, LiS posits that most space travellers will be exceptional individuals, and given that for the most part they were a family...well, there wasn't much more to go on.

Obviously, however, the idea of space exploration being a family affair, and the role of robots within the family is an interesting one.  And, if you incude the movies the idea of Heather Graham in skintight latex... well...

Land of the Giants:  Another Classic Sci-Fi with an episodic format. Like many TV projects it lacked a certain depth of concept. Obviously its ties to the Science Fiction 'genre' are weak given the presence of Giants in the show.  Still, it WAS giants with Rayguns, so...

Obviously, this puts LotG firmly planted in the 'neatism' side of  Science Fiction, where cool shit was more important that hard facts.  Once again, we are confronted, however, with treacherous and untrustworthy characters within the main cast, a la Lost In Space.   Like Lost In Space, this suggests something of a reoccuring theme in Silver Age Science Fiction, or at least in Television versions, of that man will not have truly overcome the demons of  his lesser natures.

Time Tunnel: Like Sliders after it, Time Tunnel is a particular sort of Science Fiction focusing less on current trends in science and more on extreme science, in this case time travel.  Again, episodic in nature, TT presents the audience with new, and not always very sciency, problems and worlds to confront and be solved by the characters.

A common theme to be found in shows of this nature is the idea that 'man' has certain immutable qualities that might be found no matter how far removed from our own 'baseline' culture.  There is still a certain cosmopolitian superiority presented, the idea that the characters have solutions to problems not available to the Natives of various times due to their superior home... though this will never be expressed explicitly, and is an artifact of writers trying to reach an audience more than anything else.

Quote from: Spike;319751Lost in Space: Lost is Space is, of course, in the Classic style of Sci-Fi, the Silver Era.  Lacking the overall plot arc of later series, LiS was, in its time, a standard episodic show that happened to be Science Fiction.  Overall it was reasonable 'hard' science for its time, excepting primarily the nature of an episodic situational drama involving space travel: The Robinsons found a lot more out there than they should have, flying blind.

What the LiS shows lacked was a strong underlying human theme... except for possibly: never trust your doctor.  Like many Silver Age Sci-Fi, LiS posits that most space travellers will be exceptional individuals, and given that for the most part they were a family...well, there wasn't much more to go on.

Obviously, however, the idea of space exploration being a family affair, and the role of robots within the family is an interesting one.  And, if you incude the movies the idea of Heather Graham in skintight latex... well...

You really, really need to watch the original Lost in Space before you post howlers like this.

Quote from: jeff37923;319853You really, really need to watch the original Lost in Space before you post howlers like this.

Jeff:

Quote from: SpikeOf the three the only one I have even heard of is Lost In Space, and I only know the single movie. Do you REALLY want me to go there?

And:

Quote from: SpikeSince I have never even heard of two of them, and never really watched the first, you'll have to take everything I say with a HUGE grain of salt.

Seriously.

You obviously stepped right into my cleverly concealed trap.  I knew someone would, it was only a matter of time, but that has to be a new record!

Quote from: Spike;319891Seriously.

You obviously stepped right into my cleverly concealed trap.  I knew someone would, it was only a matter of time, but that has to be a new record!

Oh please Brer Pika, don't throw me that thar briar patch.

Too Late! In you go, you cthuloid monster you!