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Author Topic: The Witcher!  (Read 4177 times)

Lurkndog

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The Witcher!
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2020, 08:02:29 am »
I've only watched the first episode, but so far it mainly serves to remind me of all the things the LOTR movies did right.

Things like:
  • Presenting the setting
  • Introducing the major players and conflict
  • Giving us a real sense of a compelling world we've never seen.
  • Introducing appealing characters with distinct personalities
  • Showing grand natural vistas with sweeping music

So far, The Witcher does none of these things.

The storytelling is poor, the settings look generic, and the overall production says TV.

The best bit is the introduction to the battle scene, but I've seen that exact scene before (Braveheart, maybe?). The swordfights are good, but they are basically doing on TV what the Lord of the Rings movies did 19 years ago.

I like Henry Cavill, but he's in danger of becoming this generations' Jeremy Irons.

Antiquation!

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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2020, 11:17:06 am »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1118657
Damn, now I'm gonna have to play them. :o

You should if you have the time. They're quite good, although the first one has fairly repetitive combat and the second one is still a bit janky despite being an 'action' RPG. The 3rd really comes into its own and has a fantastic world and very solid gameplay, but it's sort of the tail end of the story (as far as the games present it) and the plot as such is fairly focused around Ciri. Despite not being able to make your own character, at least in the 3rd one you have quite a lot of leeway in what sort of Geralt you choose to play (in terms of your affect on the world and how you respond to people and their problems, in addition to gear and skills and those usual suspects). With the first two, the story and atmosphere are what make it.



Quote from: VisionStorm;1118657
Yeah, I somehow managed to phase out the Nilfgaard armor (maybe cuz they don't show it very often), but it was just silly "subversive" BS.
At least they don't show it often, that's a mercy. I don't know what they were thinking with that design.
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HappyDaze

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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2020, 01:10:23 pm »
Quote from: Antiquation!;1118673
With the first two, the story and atmosphere are what make it.

In that case, would it be better to just read the books? Serious question.

Antiquation!

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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2020, 01:27:44 pm »
Quote from: HappyDaze;1118685
In that case, would it be better to just read the books? Serious question.

I honestly can't say as I haven't read the books and I don't know the differences in the stories, which is one of the reasons I'm not in a huge hurry to see the show. I greatly enjoyed the story, world and characters as portrayed in the games, though (aside from Ciri who is a bit of a bore).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 01:43:51 pm by Antiquation! »
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tenbones

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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2020, 06:11:08 pm »
Quote from: Lurkndog;1118665
I've only watched the first episode, but so far it mainly serves to remind me of all the things the LOTR movies did right.

Things like:
  • Presenting the setting
  • Introducing the major players and conflict
  • Giving us a real sense of a compelling world we've never seen.
  • Introducing appealing characters with distinct personalities
  • Showing grand natural vistas with sweeping music
So far, The Witcher does none of these things.

The storytelling is poor, the settings look generic, and the overall production says TV.

The best bit is the introduction to the battle scene, but I've seen that exact scene before (Braveheart, maybe?). The swordfights are good, but they are basically doing on TV what the Lord of the Rings movies did 19 years ago.

I like Henry Cavill, but he's in danger of becoming this generations' Jeremy Irons.

Give it a few more episodes (if you don't lose interest). It meets most of these requirements by the end. It's not perfect by any means, and comparing it to the LOTR with a movie-budget is probably not being fair, I've been personally pleased with the presentation over the course of the season. But my expectations were pretty low. So I'm pleasantly surprised.

tenbones

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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2020, 06:16:22 pm »
Quote from: HappyDaze;1118685
In that case, would it be better to just read the books? Serious question.

Different mediums should be consumed separately and evaluated thusly based on whatever criteria you find important. I think the show is worth a watch. The books are "okay". The games are excellent.

But they're all a little different from each other for obvious reasons.

Lurkndog

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« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2020, 10:19:36 am »
Quote from: tenbones;1118739
Give it a few more episodes (if you don't lose interest). It meets most of these requirements by the end. It's not perfect by any means, and comparing it to the LOTR with a movie-budget is probably not being fair, I've been personally pleased with the presentation over the course of the season. But my expectations were pretty low. So I'm pleasantly surprised.


Fair enough. I'm not asking for Helm's Deep on a TV budget, but an hour into Fellowship of the Ring I had a much better understanding of what was going on in the movie. Of course, that may have been because I've read the books.

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2020, 12:21:18 pm »
Quote from: Conanist;1117887
I thought it was pretty good. Henry Cavill did a great job as Geralt. For the other actors Triss seemed miscast but I thought the others were fine. If Poland is just "Redania", other Slavic countries like Montenegro are spitting distance from Africa. A few black people doesn't seem to much of a stretch. There are no obvious Turks/Ottomans, Christianity/Crusades etc so I don't know how far you can really take it. I've only played the 3rd game and not read the books, for what it is worth.

The time shifted storylines were not as jarring to me as the strange tonal shifts from "cable show" to "made for tv". Its almost like different teams were producing these. Early on you have nudity from main characters, good action scenes with cool choreography, decapitations, and the like, to go with a dark tone for the series. Later on, you've got some strange Beauty and the Beast story, and then what looks like an unused episode from Hercules or Xena where our heroes team up with a dragon for a set piece battle with minimal blood, highly generic action, and a cringe worthy capstone where the two leads kiss while casting a spell to save the day!

This is what I'm talking about. The first video has a fight that had some thought put into it other than "everyone fights", and the disarm at the end is cool and looks like something that would actually work. Possibly NSFW violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBASUVS-9SE

The second video is much more saccharine, with some generic sword swinging and the kiss. Even the dragon is only implied to have burned the guy with his dragon fire.

https://youtu.be/1GrinnzwV30?t=25


I've seen that before on Netflix where you have Daredevil with excellent, cable quality action, and then they mail it in for the other Marvel series. But this is the first time I've seen it within the same show. Am I imagining this as some "Studman69" with impossible standards, or is there something to it? What do you think?


In a time where traveling that "spitting distance" took lots of time and risk yes it's jarring to have them included without an in-universe explanation, just like you had exactly zero Africans and Asians in Europe at that point in time. Maybe if they had been all mages you could have seen the logic after all they are detected the first time they use chaos and mages can make doors to teletransport.
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GeekyBugle

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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2020, 12:24:50 pm »
Not having played the game or read the books I liked it, the time shifting presented no problem to me because I was warned there was time shifting and because many a book I have read has done the same. By the end of the season all timelines have converged, maybe they'll stop doing it?

Cavill did a great job from what I saw and what people really steeped into the lore have told me.

As for "Muh Representashun!" Why is it there's exactly zero Mayas? Kinda racist if you ask me.
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VisionStorm

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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2020, 01:43:55 pm »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119445
In a time where traveling that "spitting distance" took lots of time and risk yes it's jarring to have them included without an in-universe explanation, just like you had exactly zero Africans and Asians in Europe at that point in time. Maybe if they had been all mages you could have seen the logic after all they are detected the first time they use chaos and mages can make doors to teletransport.


The issue with the idea that parts of Europe are within spitting distance of Africa is that North Africa is dominated by Arabs and related groups like Berbers, which aren't "black" Africans. So the amount of black people and black fey, like elves and dryads, begs credulity, yet there aren't many Arab looking people in the series--only one I remember is the Fighter-Mage guy from the group of mages that stood up against the Nilfgaard near the end.

GeekyBugle

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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2020, 09:27:26 pm »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1119458
The issue with the idea that parts of Europe are within spitting distance of Africa is that North Africa is dominated by Arabs and related groups like Berbers, which aren't "black" Africans. So the amount of black people and black fey, like elves and dryads, begs credulity, yet there aren't many Arab looking people in the series--only one I remember is the Fighter-Mage guy from the group of mages that stood up against the Nilfgaard near the end.

I know, but even if it was populated by black Africans, exactly how many Basques would you expect to see in medieval Poland? Zero, and that's even closer than Africa, traveling back then wasn't as easy, fast or secure. So maybe for a royal wedding or some political event you'd see people from other neighboring countries for a limited time, unless the marriage was between two nations, then usually the princess/queen got to keep part of her entourage if marrying to someone from another country.
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danskmacabre

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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2020, 07:30:26 pm »
I was looking forward to watching this series and really wanted to like it and yeah, I DID enjoy watching the first few episodes.

Maybe I've just watched too much GoT and I'm tired of this sort of theme.
The Witcher series FEELS like GoT with a Witcher veneer painted over the top and TBH. I just got bored after a while.

I think I'll come back to this in 6 months to see if it appeals to me more.

Overall, it seems well made. I'm just having trouble getting drawn into it.

I loved the games BTW, so I do LIKE thew Witcher story (from a games perspective, not read the books).

Lurkndog

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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2020, 08:52:08 pm »
Episodes 2 and 3 were much better than the first. At least I have a sense of what is going on now.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2020, 08:55:38 pm »
My family disallows watching wannabe porn on our public space TV. The women in my family find it misogynistic because Western culture treats women's bodies as inherently sexual. So I never got past episode 2 (3?).

I was willing to put up with the wizard porn because it was just short snippets rather than long dragging wizard porn sequences like other shows I can name.

I was expecting some creepy Polish folklore since I enjoyed playing Polish horror games like Darkwood. Then Witcher tossed in tired fantasy cliches like elves and wizards. They should've hired Del Toro to handle that stuff. Christ.

One thot said she was "immune to magic." Is she also immune to that superheroine who can summon puppies from anywhere? What the fuck does that trivia even add? I thought she was boasting like an idiot and Witcher was humoring her.

From what little I did see, this show isn't worth my time. If I wanted yet another lazy D&D clone I'd watch a D&D-inspired movie on amazon prime. Or play D&D.

Christ. If this derivative crap is considered the height of entertainment today, then I want to live under a rock forever. Don't wake me until the nuclear holocaust has killed all these meatbags.

Re: The Witcher!
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2020, 09:36:04 am »
Quote
In a time where traveling that "spitting distance" took lots of time and risk yes it's jarring to have them included without an in-universe explanation, just like you had exactly zero Africans and Asians in Europe at that point in time. Maybe if they had been all mages you could have seen the logic after all they are detected the first time they use chaos and mages can make doors to teletransport.

Technically - human species dropped on this planet via inter-dimensional travel like 1000 years ago.
They are not natural population in Witcher!world and they are not necessarily spread like natural populations would.

(Book suggest they are refugees from future post-apocalyptic earth destroyed by ecological cataclysm.)

Quote
I was expecting some creepy Polish folklore since I enjoyed playing Polish horror games like Darkwood. Then Witcher tossed in tired fantasy cliches like elves and wizards. They should've hired Del Toro to handle that stuff. Christ.

While there are some Slavic monsters - like strigha from book 3 is quite close to our folklore (though it should be vividly ginger haired) - overall Witcher books are much more based on Western fantasy because Sapkowski was great fan of it - there is lot of elements of Celtic and Germanic folklore, cities and cultures are much closer to medieval Germany, many monsters with slavic names are some mutated elements using Polish names of various insects and arthropods, there are basic D&D races, because muh D&D, there is Wild Hunt, names are mostly bit shfited Germano-Celtic names - Geralt, Yennefer, Triss, Cirilla.

And Sapkowski is quite oikophobic guy even denying possibility of proper Slavic fantasy because we lack proper epic mythos like Greek mythology or Arthurian legend.

So no this is aside of few elements not distincly Polish/Slavic story. Where it's Polishness and Slavicness shines, is sort of in mentality, in mix of cynism and romanticism, in vivid use of languages in dialogues. And unfortunately most great dialogues in the books - that were just asking to be played - were scrambled because we needed this extra Yennefer backstory, so short stories about Geralt were mostly castrated, and Geralt was changed from dude who love long bit pessimitistic and whiny discussions over vodka, to this utterly introvert piece of stone.

And look Cavill managed to push much much charisma in his Geralt, and his Hmmmmms are wonderful, but most of personality of book!Geralt is gone. Dunno if they thought that Cavill would not manage to do it well, or is it result of making witchers even more hated and mistrusted and isolated from society. In books there's quite a lot of prejudice against them, but over all Geralt usually can find place for himself, he have friends around who he visits regularly during his travels, for each person who is racists for witchers, there are two who believe that night of drinking with White Wolf is wonderful idea. Like in the first episode - Geralt should know Blaviken and be friend with it's mayor and his family (which makes it even harder - when he's banished from town after slaugher) - but no, let's cut it all together because our hero is so hated and misunderstood.

Bloody SJW hacks.