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Author Topic: The Witcher!  (Read 4161 times)

Doom

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The Witcher!
« on: December 29, 2019, 11:25:52 pm »
Even though I wasn't such a fan of the computer games, I found the series decent enough except for the ridiculous time-shuffling of storylines (done without segue or notice).

Anyone else binged it out yet?
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HappyDaze

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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2019, 03:43:23 am »
I just finished Episode 3. It feels very slow to me, and I have been warned that there is "time-shuffling" but I do not yet know exactly how the pieces fit together. I watched the first two episodes > 1 week ago and then #3 yesterday. In between, I took the time to watch Lost in Space season 2 because, as ridiculous as the constant disasters might be, it kept my attention more than Witcher. I remain hopeful that Witcher will pick up and catch my interest, as I have two friends that have seen it and said it is good.

Kiero

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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2019, 05:00:44 am »
Watched it, thought it was pretty good barring the utterly confusing time-shuffling.
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tenbones

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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2019, 04:34:06 pm »
I liked the time-shuffling, only because they managed to pull it off WHILE introducing all the main characters from the books. It was necessary because the books themselves are set up like this because of the age-differences between all the characters in relation to the setting events, where they all have to converge on Geralts story.

Pros: Cavill did a great job as Geralt. The cinematography captured the feel of the books and game by shooting it on location. Writing was pretty good, with a couple of exceptions for certain characters.

Cons: Honestly - I thought the writing for Yennefer was horrible. In the games and the books she's definitely got problems, in this show she's actually a villain. Totally take zero responsibility for herself, whereas in the books/game she knows exactly why all the shit swirls around her. But the circumstances in the show are bit different. The problem is... and this could be the SJW-views of the writers, is that it SEEMS they don't realize how unsympathetic they've made Yennefer. By showing everyone that not only are all her issues self-made BY CHOICE... the natural conclusion is she should be trying to own up to them instead of blaming everyone else. The writers think that somehow it's everyone elses fault she chose her issues... it's kind of gross.

The other thing that does jar me... from a world-building POV... Yep, the "RANDOM non-white people". I'll say it... because they make no pretense of having random ethnicities of a specific type arbitrarily in the show. It's glaring to me. All they had to do was make up some culture *for the show* and say they're predominantly - or you know, use the Zangwebar an "Africa" analog from the books, and simply give a reason for more prominence... But they don't. And I admit it feels forced. The did the whole Zerrikan is Black thing and made the characters from there black, but in the books they aren't black, they're steppelands and described differently. The whole North-African Arab thing comes from the comics... whom the author said didn't look as he described. But for some reason the "need" to make people fit the diversity-quota has persisted.

And hey - how about all my Asian representation? Oh yeah... we're ninjas. So therefore invisible. LOL. Anyhow... it seems arbitrary and forced. For all the obvious reasons.

Overall I like the show.

Doom

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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2019, 05:44:12 pm »
Quote from: tenbones;1117801
I liked the time-shuffling, only because they managed to pull it off WHILE introducing all the main characters from the books. It was necessary because the books themselves are set up like this because of the age-differences between all the characters in relation to the setting events, where they all have to converge on Geralts story.

Pros: Cavill did a great job as Geralt. The cinematography captured the feel of the books and game by shooting it on location. Writing was pretty good, with a couple of exceptions for certain characters.

Cons: Honestly - I thought the writing for Yennefer was horrible. In the games and the books she's definitely got problems, in this show she's actually a villain. Totally take zero responsibility for herself, whereas in the books/game she knows exactly why all the shit swirls around her. But the circumstances in the show are bit different. The problem is... and this could be the SJW-views of the writers, is that it SEEMS they don't realize how unsympathetic they've made Yennefer. By showing everyone that not only are all her issues self-made BY CHOICE... the natural conclusion is she should be trying to own up to them instead of blaming everyone else. The writers think that somehow it's everyone elses fault she chose her issues... it's kind of gross.

The other thing that does jar me... from a world-building POV... Yep, the "RANDOM non-white people". I'll say it... because they make no pretense of having random ethnicities of a specific type arbitrarily in the show. It's glaring to me. All they had to do was make up some culture *for the show* and say they're predominantly - or you know, use the Zangwebar an "Africa" analog from the books, and simply give a reason for more prominence... But they don't. And I admit it feels forced. The did the whole Zerrikan is Black thing and made the characters from there black, but in the books they aren't black, they're steppelands and described differently. The whole North-African Arab thing comes from the comics... whom the author said didn't look as he described. But for some reason the "need" to make people fit the diversity-quota has persisted.

And hey - how about all my Asian representation? Oh yeah... we're ninjas. So therefore invisible. LOL. Anyhow... it seems arbitrary and forced. For all the obvious reasons.

Overall I like the show.

Much to agree with the above...the unnecessary blackfacing wasn't too garish, at least (in a world where teleportation is possible, it's a bit easier to believe), and the obligatory interracial relationship was only a little annoying (it's all too predictable for Netflix). At least they didn't homosexualize the trees or monsters or something.

And you're right, Yennefer is a rhymes-with-witch more than witch, responsible for much of the harm in the show. It makes hard to accept Geralt's instant desire to have his fate bound to hers. Having the powerful female be such a villain might be why there is, yet again, such a huge divergence between the NPCs/professional critics on RT and what the humans who actually watch the show say.

Sorry about the invisible Asian thing...being in higher ed, I see that "minority" overlooked so much because it doesn't fit the narrative that it's automatic for me anymore.
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Conanist

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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2020, 05:40:37 pm »
I thought it was pretty good. Henry Cavill did a great job as Geralt. For the other actors Triss seemed miscast but I thought the others were fine. If Poland is just "Redania", other Slavic countries like Montenegro are spitting distance from Africa. A few black people doesn't seem to much of a stretch. There are no obvious Turks/Ottomans, Christianity/Crusades etc so I don't know how far you can really take it. I've only played the 3rd game and not read the books, for what it is worth.

The time shifted storylines were not as jarring to me as the strange tonal shifts from "cable show" to "made for tv". Its almost like different teams were producing these. Early on you have nudity from main characters, good action scenes with cool choreography, decapitations, and the like, to go with a dark tone for the series. Later on, you've got some strange Beauty and the Beast story, and then what looks like an unused episode from Hercules or Xena where our heroes team up with a dragon for a set piece battle with minimal blood, highly generic action, and a cringe worthy capstone where the two leads kiss while casting a spell to save the day!

This is what I'm talking about. The first video has a fight that had some thought put into it other than "everyone fights", and the disarm at the end is cool and looks like something that would actually work. Possibly NSFW violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBASUVS-9SE

The second video is much more saccharine, with some generic sword swinging and the kiss. Even the dragon is only implied to have burned the guy with his dragon fire.

https://youtu.be/1GrinnzwV30?t=25


I've seen that before on Netflix where you have Daredevil with excellent, cable quality action, and then they mail it in for the other Marvel series. But this is the first time I've seen it within the same show. Am I imagining this as some "Studman69" with impossible standards, or is there something to it? What do you think?

HappyDaze

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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2020, 05:46:35 pm »
I lost interest in episode 7 but forced myself to watch episode 8. It was an OK series, but not a great one. I found the story (once I found it) easily forgettable and I guess the world building of the Witcher's world just fell flat with me. Perhaps this is because I never read the books nor played the video games. I do own the R. Talsorian RPG in PDF, but I have only paged through it a bit before closing the file with a "maybe I'll get back to it someday but probably not" thought. That's the same thought I'm likely to have if a season 2 of this show is made.

Spinachcat

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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2020, 01:00:01 am »
I saw the trailers...and yearned for the bad cheese of 80s sword & sorcery movies. It's bad enough to watch Cavill as Superlame in the movies for 2 hours, but the idea of watching him an entire season just kept me from clicking the Play button.

HappyDaze

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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2020, 02:11:56 am »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1117921
I saw the trailers...and yearned for the bad cheese of 80s sword & sorcery movies. It's bad enough to watch Cavill as Superlame in the movies for 2 hours, but the idea of watching him an entire season just kept me from clicking the Play button.

There were only so many times I could stand watching Cavill/Geralt growling out "Hrmm..." before I felt like it should be a drinking game (and, sadly, I'm on a low-carb diet these days).

Doom

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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2020, 09:36:24 pm »
Yeah, it was weird that the show started with R-rated, movie quality production values, but dropped off sharply to decent Prime Time TV.

That said, they did an awesome job of capture the look of the computer games, especially the clothing and uniforms.
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VisionStorm

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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2020, 12:28:14 am »
Quote from: Doom;1117965
Yeah, it was weird that the show started with R-rated, movie quality production values, but dropped off sharply to decent Prime Time TV.

That said, they did an awesome job of capture the look of the computer games, especially the clothing and uniforms.


True. While I enjoyed the show, it started out strong--like it was gonna be a solid, high production series--then around the time the bard showed up things started to get bad, or at least kinda rocky from time to time. I mean, Jesus Christ! All those crappy songs and modern references, like talking about "psychology" or how he should be talking a 10% agent's fee. Bard was the worst character in the show.

I liked Yennefer, though (but I didn't play the games or read the books)--she was kinda messed up at first but turned out alright in the end. She was a deformed and abused freak most her life so I bought her having a lot of pent up rage and misplaced anger.

tenbones

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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2020, 07:13:04 pm »
Quote from: Doom;1117806
Much to agree with the above...the unnecessary blackfacing wasn't too garish, at least (in a world where teleportation is possible, it's a bit easier to believe), and the obligatory interracial relationship was only a little annoying (it's all too predictable for Netflix). At least they didn't homosexualize the trees or monsters or something.

And you're right, Yennefer is a rhymes-with-witch more than witch, responsible for much of the harm in the show. It makes hard to accept Geralt's instant desire to have his fate bound to hers. Having the powerful female be such a villain might be why there is, yet again, such a huge divergence between the NPCs/professional critics on RT and what the humans who actually watch the show say.


Yeah I completely don't buy their relationship at all.

Quote from: Doom;1117806
Sorry about the invisible Asian thing...being in higher ed, I see that "minority" overlooked so much because it doesn't fit the narrative that it's automatic for me anymore.


No need to be sorry! I don't expect white, brown or black people to show up in Chinese Three-Kingdoms movies for the exact same reason. They're stories from a specific culture. The sad part is here in the Witcher - it's just tokenism. WEAK at that because hey could *easily* fix it with in-universe examples that exist, they just chose to ignore any of that in order to measure it by screentime or something. It weakens the worldbuilding and believability for me.

I have no requirement of any derived work in other mediums other than to be as true to the source as possible.

tenbones

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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2020, 07:15:17 pm »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1118204
True. While I enjoyed the show, it started out strong--like it was gonna be a solid, high production series--then around the time the bard showed up things started to get bad, or at least kinda rocky from time to time. I mean, Jesus Christ! All those crappy songs and modern references, like talking about "psychology" or how he should be talking a 10% agent's fee. Bard was the worst character in the show.

I agree. It was jarring.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1118204
I liked Yennefer, though (but I didn't play the games or read the books)--she was kinda messed up at first but turned out alright in the end. She was a deformed and abused freak most her life so I bought her having a lot of pent up rage and misplaced anger.

Do not play the games or read the books, then. LOL because you'll be like... oh yeah... this is not good. It COULD have been... but I think they made her too unsympathetic.

Antiquation!

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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2020, 09:54:17 pm »
To be honest I do not buy Henry Cavill as Geralt at all but I have not seen the show yet so I do not feel qualified to pass judgement there as far as acting. I can say the foreskin armor is absolutely ridiculous however.
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VisionStorm

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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2020, 10:52:06 pm »
Quote from: tenbones;1118646
Do not play the games or read the books, then. LOL because you'll be like... oh yeah... this is not good. It COULD have been... but I think they made her too unsympathetic.


Damn, now I'm gonna have to play them. :o

Or maybe read the books, since game 1 might look too dated now and I'm not a fan of RPGs without character creation.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1118655
To be honest I do not buy Henry Cavill as Geralt at all but I have not seen the show yet so I do not feel qualified to pass judgement there as far as acting. I can say the foreskin armor is absolutely ridiculous however.


Yeah, I somehow managed to phase out the Nilfgaard armor (maybe cuz they don't show it very often), but it was just silly "subversive" BS.