I saw Song of The Sea in the theater and quite liked it, though it is a kids & adults thing.

Seems to me worth considering that in the West, animation for adults sort of describes the CGI that has been sneaking into films, and making them subtly more surreal while still mostly photorealistic. I might have despised certain CGI action films less if they had switched to cartoon animation style for their insultingly unrealistic action bits, leaving my imagination a bit more room to shift gears and perhaps imagine things actually not happening in quite so ridiculous a fashion.

A few questions that come to mind for those of you who are more into anime & animation & definitions that I am:

* Having considered whether the West has animation fiction for adults, what is a first-rate example of good non-Western animation for adults (and not kids & adults)?

* Would you consider 300 (the Sparta thing) to be Western animation for adults?

* How would you categorize (or is there already a term/category for) the surreal semi-animated or stylized Western films for adults (I'm thinking of the style of Sin City, Kill Bill (IIRC has interludes with animated parts), Sky Captain And The World Of Tomorrow, Dark City)?

* What's the term for the style of that recent Tintin film?

Quote from: Skarg;943432* What's the term for the style of that recent Tintin film?

The uncanny valley

Quote from: Skarg;943432A few questions that come to mind for those of you who are more into anime & animation & definitions that I am:

* Having considered whether the West has animation fiction for adults, what is a first-rate example of good non-Western animation for adults (and not kids & adults)?

Satoshi Kon was the best director of anime for actual adults as opposed to adolescents that I enountered. Perfect Blue, Millenium Actress, Paprika, even his TV series Paranoia Agent are all very good.

Graveyard of Fireflies is also amazing, I guess some would debate if it is for kids and adults but I think it would probably be to scarring for most kids to watch.

Quote from: Voros;942782A very unique view I'd say. The vast majority of anime these days seems strictly made for teens and arrested adolescents.

This is an eyebrow-raising value judgement to make on an RPG forum.

That term certainly raises hackles on the nerdnet. I enjoy some literature written for young people in addition to films and cartoons but if the majority of your cultural diet is composed  of material composed for teens and pre-teens and you're an adult I think arrested adolescent seems a fair description.

I would say the same about women who read exclusively YA novels. Some anime (very little these days) is made for adults. Some has silly violent and sexual content made to appeal to teens who think that makes it 'adult.' It is the equivalent of Image comics in the 90s. Basically, I question whether the material the OP posted about qualifies as adult.

Of course none of that has to do with RPGs, which can be childish, adolescent or adult depending on who is playing and how they're played. There is a range there just as in the genres they are based on (fantasy, sf, thrillers, horror, etc).

That was more nuanced and diplomatic.

Quote from: VorosOf course none of that has to do with RPGs, which can be childish, adolescent or adult depending on who is playing and how they're played.

What do you think of this statement: The vast majority of commercially successful RPGs these days are power fantasies made for aging arrested adolescents.

Impossible to say as I'm not sure what is going on at the majority of tables. Probably true for some.

RPGs are usually systems, the content is left up to the players and GM. I see nothing the matter with RPGs for adolescents, I think more RPGs should be made for kids and adolescents as their target audience. Many sneered at BECMI for being a kiddie edition but I think that was part of its strength. You still see many sneering at 2e AD&D for the same (overblown) reason.

Power fantasy is a loaded term, some power fantasies can be positive, some are negative. As a teen I remember some using the game in very distasteful ways as a power fantasy but when we were younger I'd say we used it positively as a power fantasy.

One of the most successful RPGs, CoC is often the opposite of a power fantasy.

But we're pretty OT from modern anime and cartoons.

Quote from: Voros;944550Power fantasy is a loaded term...

Like arrested adolescent.

Quote from: Voros;944550But we're pretty OT from modern anime and cartoons.

Alright, there isn't really much more to say on this tangent anyway.

Outsourcing is what ruined western animation. It resulted in the western studios getting gutted because they couldn't compete.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;944611Outsourcing is what ruined western animation. It resulted in the western studios getting gutted because they couldn't compete.

The thing is, western studios couldn't compete in quality, not so much price.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;944612The thing is, western studios couldn't compete in quality, not so much price.

Interestingly the writing for some western animation has gotten better too. But the art quality has gotten progressively less and less. Some of this stuff coming out now is just about below Terrytoons when they were at their weakest.

Quote from: Omega;940303Actually modern Anime is all over the place. You just tend to see only the good stuff. Japan pumps out alot of low grade stuff too that is right on par with the lower end of US animation. Theres also been an increasing over-use of CG that really detracts.

Seriously. What's up with kemono friends? It got so much attention that I wanted to give it a chance, but it was just unpleasant to watch.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;944210This is an eyebrow-raising value judgement to make on an RPG forum.

Eh. Personally I enjoy both anime and RPGs, and I'm self-sufficient and satisfied with my lifestyle, but on the other hand I don't own my own home or have any kids, so it really depends on what you consider to be normal development.

On the other hand, he may have been thinking particularly of shounen, which is a lot of people's main experience with anime. I don't think many folks really care for that unless they're teens or very close to, excluding a few particularly excellent examples of the genre.

Quote from: Skarg;943432* Having considered whether the West has animation fiction for adults, what is a first-rate example of good non-Western animation for adults (and not kids & adults)?

As far as anime? I'm only a dabbler these days, but as far as masterpieces of adult animation you couldn't go wrong with Serial Experiments: Lain, the original Ghost in the Shell, or (if you have a strong stomach and not prone to clinical depression), my personal favourite: Elfen Leid.

Quote from: Cruxador;946403Seriously. What's up with kemono friends? It got so much attention that I wanted to give it a chance, but it was just unpleasant to watch.

How so? They tend to be little different from elves in the end. Im not fond of them either. But mainly because sticking ears and maybee a tail on someone is over used and just another elf race 99% of the time. A rare few actually having some sort of reason like kitsune. And even that gets over-used.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;946461As far as anime? I'm only a dabbler these days, but as far as masterpieces of adult animation you couldn't go wrong with Serial Experiments: Lain, the original Ghost in the Shell, or (if you have a strong stomach and not prone to clinical depression), my personal favourite: Elfen Leid.

Those are all pretty long in the tooth at this point. Serial Experiments is nearly 20 years old, Ghost in the Shell over 20+ years and Elfen Lied 13 years. Agree about their quality though, except for Elfen Lied which I haven't seen yet but hear good things about. If we're going that far back I wish most lighter anime was as good as Cowboy Bebop.

I did like the Madoka Magica series as a subversion of anime cliches. Princess Jellyfish was a cute series that avoided most of the pitfalls of comedic anime.