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The Lounge => Media and Inspiration => Topic started by: Reckall on September 01, 2022, 01:46:12 PM

Title: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on September 01, 2022, 01:46:12 PM
So, the first reviews of "The Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Prime" are out. They fall into four general categories:

1. GLORIOUS reviews by "preview audiences" who, literally, use variations of the same script ("A cinematic experience that redefines television, the beginning is a little slow because there is a lot of world building, Amazon spent one billion dollars on this show and you see all the money on screen). These audiences had both flight and hotel paid by Amazon so to see the show in a theatre. Some of them, in all fairness, disclosed this.

The two best takeaways were from a Catholic woman who said "The best thing that I can say is how after watching the first two episodes I felt calm. (??) Afterwards, I saw a church nearby and I went there to pray for the soul of Tolkien (??!??)

...And from a couple who said "Tolkien fans will be happy to know that the show has a lot of easter eggs for them!" (?!?!?!?)

2. GLORIOUS reviews by outlets who have undisclosed commercial ties with Amazon (like all the outlets under the Condé Nast "umbrella", Vanity Fair in primis). These reviews elaborate a bit more from the basic cheat sheet we have seen.

3. GLORIOUS reviews from woke media: Variety, Rolling Stone... You know them. Same cheat sheet.

4. ...And then reviews that torn the show to pieces. These reviews are the only ones that explore in detail why the show is a disaster. Still, there are some surprises.

For months Entertainment Weekly shilled TRoP to high orbit, had exclusives, preview teasers, interviews, the whole enchilada. People were betting their sons that EW was going to speak about the show like "Kubrick Resurrected". Instead they came out guns blazing with a brutal review that started with "Amazon's prequel is kind of a catastrophe" and then proceeded to dismantle everything. It was since the Red Wedding in GoT that the streaming arena didn't see a similar level of betrayal.
https://ew.com/tv/tv-reviews/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-amazon/

The Washington Post, owned by Bezos, said "You know? Meh... Beautiful, banal boredom".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/tv/2022/08/31/lord-rings-tv-show-review/

Grace Randolph! If you don't know her, let's say that she often borders on shilling. A lot of people can't stand her person but this is beyond the point. Anyway, the best takeaway from her review is that Galadriel alone sinks the show by being "Both a Karen and a Mary Sue". Ouch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ALhrwdr8xg&ab_channel=BeyondTheTrailer

Of course the Daily Mail opened fire with all guns, too, but this was expected. * out of ***** however...
"The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power: No turkey, however bloated and stupid, could ever be big enough to convey the mesmerising awfulness of Amazon's billion dollar Tolkien epic"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11164965/CHRISTOPHER-STEVENS-reviews-Lord-Rings-Rings-Power.html

The best one, IMHO, remains Nerdrotic's take and his opinion about the shills (spoiler: not hate, but pity and compassion). I'll link the video.

I'm waiting for the premiere. A few hours to go. Let's say that I already have a Hitler Parody in mind as my review...



Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on September 02, 2022, 08:57:56 AM
Saw episode 1. I promised my wife to give it a fair shot, despite being a bit of a Tolkien-book nerd. OK I’ll give it this: the oath of Feanor was a cool scene that lasted a split second. If they have the rights to show that part, why not make a Silmarillion series? Instead the rest is cringeworthy. Galadriel is just the kind of Hollywood feminist “strong woman” that people have come to despise. A lot of it is just plain weird, and is the kind of stuff that non-Tolkien-fans expect us to explain, but we can’t because the show runners pulled it out of a place the sun don’t shine.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: hedgehobbit on September 02, 2022, 09:50:10 AM
Maybe someone here follows this more closely, but I heard that the rights used on this show weren't the same rights used for the Jackson Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies. That the rights that the Embracer group just bought only covered the rights to the Lord of the Rings books and the Hobbit. So Amazon went and negotiated separate rights for the Silmarillion but tried to make their show have the same "look and feel" as the Jackson movies to attempt to tie them together even though they aren't related at all.

And that "hobbits" aren't mentioned in the Silmarillion which is why the hobbits in the Rings of Power can't be called Hobbits.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 02, 2022, 09:52:46 AM
Forst episode looked pretty enough, but that's about it: all visual spectacle without much more to it. I didn't like the elf ship with all the elves just standing at attention and the sails slack yet still speeding across the sea. Sure, magic or something can explain it, but it looked silly to me.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on September 02, 2022, 10:23:59 AM
Oh yeah, the ship scene was another massive cringe. It’s like crossing the Atlantic on a sailing boat with everyone standing up the whole way. And…is Galadriel supposed to swim back??
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 02, 2022, 11:53:06 AM
Oh yeah, the ship scene was another massive cringe. It’s like crossing the Atlantic on a sailing boat with everyone standing up the whole way. And…is Galadriel supposed to swim back??
Only if they decide to pull back from having her walk on water...
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on September 02, 2022, 01:28:44 PM
Oh wait, I think the trailers showed her being picked up by a raft or something, but it still looked like she was planning on swimming all the way back.

Also, she is not just smarter than the rest of the “northern armies”, she fights better than them, and she also climbs better than all of them. The others were basically good for nothing.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Visitor Q on September 02, 2022, 05:21:01 PM
I've heard it is cringe and just plain boring and the acting is pretty bad.

But leaving thst aside, are the visuals spectacular, beautiful etc?. This seems to be what people are gushing over but I have also heard they are merely good and probably too CGI heavy.

So honestly, ignoring all other factors how does it look?
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Llew ap Hywel on September 02, 2022, 06:39:27 PM
If it was t pretending to be based on Tolkiens work it would be a decent fantasy show, sadly it’s another SyFy Earthsea.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 02, 2022, 07:42:14 PM
I have little to say. I'm a big Tolkien fan, didn't much like the Jackson films, stopped caring with the Hobbit Jackson films, and I have no intention of watching Rings of Power.

That it's (reportedly) a woke snoozefest with trite writing and a huge money black hole for Amazon is the only entertainment I'm getting out of it.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on September 02, 2022, 08:10:22 PM
If it was t pretending to be based on Tolkiens work it would be a decent fantasy show, sadly it’s another SyFy Earthsea.

Kat fell asleep halfway through the first part of Earthsea. heh-heh.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on September 02, 2022, 08:15:59 PM
I have little to say. I'm a big Tolkien fan, didn't much like the Jackson films, stopped caring with the Hobbit Jackson films, and I have no intention of watching Rings of Power.

That it's (reportedly) a woke snoozefest with trite writing and a huge money black hole for Amazon is the only entertainment I'm getting out of it.

Im in the same elfboat. I thought the Rings movies were overall ok-ish except for some glaring problems that undermined it. But despised the Hobbit movies and actually have not seen it all yet. The first one left that bad an impression. I have zero desire to have my braincells killed by more hatemongering trash.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 02, 2022, 08:25:37 PM
The ice troll looked ok...up until Galadriel whipped its ass with all the other elves practically standing still and watching.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on September 03, 2022, 12:21:47 AM
Maybe someone here follows this more closely, but I heard that the rights used on this show weren't the same rights used for the Jackson Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies.

They paid $250 millions for "What is told about the Second Age in The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and the Appendixes, and for a streaming show only. Then Amazon Prime put $1 billion to turn a bunch of pages into a 5 seasons show. They literally have to invent everything.
Quote
That the rights that the Embracer group just bought only covered the rights to the Lord of the Rings books and the Hobbit.

No, Embracer bought the rights to everything Tolkien. They have to honor existing contracts (like the one with Amazon) but that's it. Since Embracer owns the rights to The Silmarillion, anyone can license them and do a show based on the book (it was considered a given that Amazon would have bought everything once it went up for sale, so to solve their lack of actual material to adapt and maybe redo LotR itself on Prime; that they didn't may be a sign that Amazon already lost its faith in the ability to do Tolkien right).

Anyway, my guess is that no one, right now, would touch Tolkien's Second Age with a 10' pole, as Amazon's show is a trainwreck that may very well damage the brand. If The Rings of Power fails, a lot of blood will flow.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on September 03, 2022, 10:46:47 AM
I have little to say. I'm a big Tolkien fan, didn't much like the Jackson films, stopped caring with the Hobbit Jackson films, and I have no intention of watching Rings of Power.

That it's (reportedly) a woke snoozefest with trite writing and a huge money black hole for Amazon is the only entertainment I'm getting out of it.

Im in the same elfboat. I thought the Rings movies were overall ok-ish except for some glaring problems that undermined it. But despised the Hobbit movies and actually have not seen it all yet. The first one left that bad an impression. I have zero desire to have my braincells killed by more hatemongering trash.

Yup that’s my exact same position, except I did watch the first episode of this garbage. If you’ve seen the trailers and didn’t like it, then there’s absolutely no reason to watch the show. The show itself just adds more cringe on top of the stuff you already saw in the trailers.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: soundchaser on September 03, 2022, 02:10:43 PM
FWIW the Hobbit movies started filming with a third of a script of the first film. It was not going to begin or end well. Jackson could not salvage its awful mess. Woke of the Rings is indeed boring as heck.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: jeff37923 on September 03, 2022, 04:43:20 PM
All I can say is that, "They discontinued The Expanse for this?"

And....



Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 03, 2022, 05:52:59 PM
All I can say is that, "They discontinued The Expanse for this?"
To be fair, the last three Expanse novels don't hold up as well as the first six.

EDIT: Didn't need to repost the video.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: mightybrain on September 05, 2022, 06:01:38 PM
They paid $250 millions for "What is told about the Second Age in The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and the Appendixes, and for a streaming show only.

Yeah, not only do they have little enough material to work from, they also have to steer clear of any actual Silmarillion content.

The CG is reportedly quite good. If you're into that kind of thing.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Rhymer88 on September 06, 2022, 04:05:04 AM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: jeff37923 on September 06, 2022, 06:27:04 AM
I got about 15 minutes in and changed the channel to She-Hulk. It is pretty bad when MCU feminist propaganda beats out LotR feminist propaganda.

Again, "They discontinued The Expanse for this?"
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on September 07, 2022, 03:00:21 PM
......aaaand Amazon & Co just had all IMDB scores below 6/10 deleted. Well done Bezos

(https://i.redd.it/nu42chstcem91.jpg)
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: HappyDaze on September 07, 2022, 03:12:04 PM
......aaaand Amazon & Co just had all IMDB scores below 6/10 deleted. Well done Bezos

(https://i.redd.it/nu42chstcem91.jpg)
Well, it just goes to show that you get what you pay for...so long as you = billionaire.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Drude on September 09, 2022, 04:49:24 PM
This show put me on Sauron's side.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Rhymer88 on September 10, 2022, 03:24:58 AM
This show put me on Sauron's side.

Yes, Jeff Bezos makes Sauron look like an amateur.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Wntrlnd on September 19, 2022, 09:37:22 AM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.

Except she isnt. More foolhardy than brave and not smart enough to recognize Sauron when he is standing right in front of her. (on the other hand, nor does anyone else either)

And Elrond and Durin are totally bros. They just had a misunderstanding to deal with first.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 19, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.

Except she isnt. More foolhardy than brave and not smart enough to recognize Sauron when he is standing right in front of her. (on the other hand, nor does anyone else either)

And Elrond and Durin are totally bros. They just had a misunderstanding to deal with first.
That was kind of the whole point of Sauron's guise as Annatar, after all. Wouldn't be much good if he got recognized immediately.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on September 27, 2022, 07:45:54 AM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.

Except she isnt. More foolhardy than brave and not smart enough to recognize Sauron when he is standing right in front of her. (on the other hand, nor does anyone else either)

And Elrond and Durin are totally bros. They just had a misunderstanding to deal with first.
That was kind of the whole point of Sauron's guise as Annatar, after all. Wouldn't be much good if he got recognized immediately.

Very. For all his myriad failures and goof-ups his little disguise trick was masterfully played. And if someone hadn't finally noticed he'd have pulled it all off. But that is Sauron's story afterall. A long long chain of charm, plotting, deception all ending in spectacular failures.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 27, 2022, 10:50:41 AM
Far Harad is an entire continent of black folks who were historically victimized by the evil Numenoreans. It's a perfect plot for those who want to demonize white people and tell stories about Arda that are relevant to current socio-political issues. It's a lot better than the historical basis for The Woman King, that's for sure. Sauron was basically playing both sides against each other: convincing the Numenoreans to colonize Far Harad and perform human sacrifice, turn the Haradrim against the Numenoreans, convincing some Numenoreans to go native and help the Haradrim fight off the colonizers, convincing the Black Numenoreans and their Haradrim allies to serve Sauron the Liberator, converting to the same religion that they were sacrificed for but with them in charge this time... it's a perfect way to illustrate not just the modern trendy "white people evil!" but also to illustrate how the disenfranchised can be radicalized and engage in monstrous acts in the belief that the ends justify the means. Which is very relevant to modern politics... so naturally Amazon won't touch it at all.

Oh, and if you want black elves, hobbits and dwarves then you could probably invent ethnic groups of them native to Far Harad. It's not like Tolkien is around today to hear fan complaints and make adjustments to his own legendarium.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Tallifer on September 27, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
They say the new prime minister of Italy is a huge fanatic of Tolkien. I wonder what she thinks of Amazon's blasphemous series?
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2022, 08:40:56 AM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.

Except she isnt. More foolhardy than brave and not smart enough to recognize Sauron when he is standing right in front of her. (on the other hand, nor does anyone else either)

And Elrond and Durin are totally bros. They just had a misunderstanding to deal with first.
That was kind of the whole point of Sauron's guise as Annatar, after all. Wouldn't be much good if he got recognized immediately.

Very. For all his myriad failures and goof-ups his little disguise trick was masterfully played. And if someone hadn't finally noticed he'd have pulled it all off. But that is Sauron's story afterall. A long long chain of charm, plotting, deception all ending in spectacular failures.
Yeaaaah, they only noticed after he forged the One Ring. Not exactly a failure there, as it let him wreck Eregion and kill Celebrimbor.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on September 29, 2022, 01:07:41 PM
They say the new prime minister of Italy is a huge fanatic of Tolkien. I wonder what she thinks of Amazon's blasphemous series?

She (Giorgia Meloni) never connected her passion for Tolkien with her career in politics - so everyone else did. "We cannot tolerate that someone from the fan-right can be a Tolkien fan because Tolkien is for everybody!" is the primary symptom of a brain aneurysm happening between the first sentence and the second.

The Guardian published a fun hit-piece against her - fun because if you change "Meloni" with "Galadriel" you have the perfect description of the character they are glorifying elsewhere. :D

To answer the original question, a smart politician, right now, would diss the show. Or, better yet, keep quiet.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on September 29, 2022, 01:52:53 PM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.

Except she isnt. More foolhardy than brave and not smart enough to recognize Sauron when he is standing right in front of her. (on the other hand, nor does anyone else either)

And Elrond and Durin are totally bros. They just had a misunderstanding to deal with first.
That was kind of the whole point of Sauron's guise as Annatar, after all. Wouldn't be much good if he got recognized immediately.

Very. For all his myriad failures and goof-ups his little disguise trick was masterfully played. And if someone hadn't finally noticed he'd have pulled it all off. But that is Sauron's story afterall. A long long chain of charm, plotting, deception all ending in spectacular failures.
Yeaaaah, they only noticed after he forged the One Ring. Not exactly a failure there, as it let him wreck Eregion and kill Celebrimbor.

Except at least one of the elves caught on well before that and started taking measures.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on September 29, 2022, 03:20:56 PM
They say the new prime minister of Italy is a huge fanatic of Tolkien. ....

Really? I like her even more now. :D
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on September 29, 2022, 11:46:40 PM
Far Harad is an entire continent of black folks who were historically victimized by the evil Numenoreans.

Well the issue is that they are not 'relevent' enough. And also wokeness wildly careens between victimization, but also extreme empowerment and purity.
The X favored group becoming or being just as bad as the Y favored group goes against the message of 'Some people are just inherently good and others are inherently evil'.
Its Oxymoron, but so is the ideology:

'Africans ways of living are pure and good, way better then icky modern western life....But they would have totally made high tech utopias if it wasn't for the white man!....Which they would have totally overcome if they where not so pure and not used to warfare....But they are totally amazing at everything too!'

Wokeness is a bitter teen upset that her great grandfather has many medals from the war and a picture in his honor hanging at her parents house because he died in a tank battle in WWII. She assumes that the reason she isn't getting as much glory is exclusively sexism (and her great grandpa must have been a terrible person anyway), and she would have achieved way more medals if just women where drafted.

Wokeness is upset that its mostly written by western white people PERIOD. Its an attempt to re-write it in their view of how history should have always been.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 30, 2022, 09:46:05 AM
I do think it's interesting that the show brings more attention to the fact that orcs are ultimately Morgoth's victims and have their own culture. Tolkien struggled with the origin and morality of orcs up to his death. I see a lot of online discourse claiming that the orcs should be hated and irredeemable, which I don't agree with.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 30, 2022, 10:46:38 AM
Also, I noticed that even many of the show's defenders in both news publications and youtube channels are now giving up and criticizing the show's bad writing. There are still some holdouts claiming that the critics are just "superfans" (as if there's anything wrong with that) and "racists" (which is patently untrue aside from at most a handful of crazies on Stormfront).

If you file off the serial numbers and treat the show as an original work, then it's terribly written. Which shouldn't be surprising as the showrunners have little experience.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 30, 2022, 12:31:10 PM
Also, I noticed that even many of the show's defenders in both news publications and youtube channels are now giving up and criticizing the show's bad writing. There are still some holdouts claiming that the critics are just "superfans" (as if there's anything wrong with that) and "racists" (which is patently untrue aside from at most a handful of crazies on Stormfront).

If you file off the serial numbers and treat the show as an original work, then it's terribly written. Which shouldn't be surprising as the showrunners have little experience.
Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on October 02, 2022, 01:08:05 AM

Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

They sure did; and one of the “superfans” who was interviewed recently still hasn’t seen a single episode.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on October 02, 2022, 07:31:43 AM
Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

Yup. They hit six countries with these "superfans" videos (USA, France, Italy, Germany, Netherlands and Spain). These were manufactured videos, made with influencers and paid actors - many of whom never even talked about Tolkien in their social accounts. The US one was pulled down after a few days buy of course it has been re-uploaded everywhere else so one can easily find it.

The baffling thing is how the first doubt everyone had, which was the insertion of random black elves and dwarves, turned out to be among the few good things of the show. Arondir is the only real elf in the series while Disa the dwarf is a fun comic relief. I tend to agree with those who say that Amazon trotted out the black characters first so to cause a stir about them (strictly about how they didn't respect the books' lore) and manufacture the "racist!" narrative they are still stuck with - including against critics from Nigeria, Kenya, India, Iraq, Japan, Vietnam...

Quote
This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

I had first hand leaks about the show and they were already bad. "Galadriel will be bullied (?) by other elf-kids in Valinor (???) within the first two minutes." (Something I didn't really believe to be totally correct, because... How can she be bullied within the first two minutes? After all they have to first present the elves, Valinor, who Galadriel is... Let's say that they managed to pull this stunt). Then the show started and... not only it is not Tolkien, it is not even itself, if you get my meaning. It is internally inconsistent, messed up, boring... astoundingly bad in writing, acting, production design...

And then you have the true paradox: they are so obsessed with "grrrl power" that every important decision is made by a female character (all of them alone, with no male companion). The writing, however, is so atrocious, that these decisions are always flatly stupid. Thus, the message of this show becomes "For the love of God, never put a woman in command."

And then in Episode Six, among MANY, MANY hideous moments, there was an apparently small thing that IMHO, demonstrates why this show is an offense against God.

So, the "Southlands" (not yet Mordor) are menaced by an orc army but Numenor is arriving (from Numenor to the hearth of Mordor in 36 hours BTW). Arondir, the black elf and the only real warrior in the area, does everything he can to rally some desperate villagers: he trains them, makes plans, rallies them with arousing speeches... he does everything in his power to delay the orcs. For "reasons" the leader of these villagers is Bronwyn, a female healer, and Arondir's True Love (I know: this is not the problem; the scene when they finally kiss is even beautiful). Anyway, during the battle Bronwyn does everything Arondir tells her to do (which is not: "You are a healer: think about the wounded; again, believe me, this is not the problem).

Many (inane) things happen and then our heroes are saved by the Numenorean army thanks to the time bought by Arondir. The battle is surveyed from atop a hill by Regent-Queen Tar-Miriel, whose skin was "fairest than ivory and pearls", played here by a black woman.

So, they win, and Tar-Miriel and Bronwyn meet, and Arondir is sent away because the two grrrls have to talk.

Even in a show as bad as this one, nothing had yet reached this abyss. The meaning of that scene is, literally, "Thanks for your service, elf nigger, now return among your ranks". And he does! Tar-Miriel (who did nothing for the whole battle) and Bronwyn (who followed Arondir's advice because every time she opened her mouth half of her people defected to the orcs - I'm not joking, it is in the show) start to complement each other for the greatness of their leadership. I swear to God that they come this close to fingering each other in orgasmic abandon. I mean... the writers even made clear that Arondir and Bronwyn love each other. By this point in the story Arondir is beloved by the villagers too. Bronwyn should at the very least say "No, Arondir stays, because it is also thanks to him if we resisted" (the correct admission should be "Arondir stays, because it is thanks to him and no one else if we resisted"). They had everything in place to show parity and valor in elves and humans, in whites and blacks. No.

I was astounded. It was a scene as racist as fuck. It should be denounced by every wokeist out there and I would be in front of them waving my sign. They created a black elf just to show how he belongs to the inferior ranks, full stop - any good that he does being stolen by "superior beings". And he complies! He doesn't say "Bronwyn, what the fuck?!" He just bows and disappears.

Now those left watching the show will know that, by now, we are deep South in more than a way. I always maintained that they don't even realise the real meaning of what they are putting on screen. But it is telling that the head of Amazon Studios, Jennifer Salke, the main producer, Lindsay Weber, and the two showrunners are all white people with blond hair. This is the team tasked to bring "diversity, inclusivity, representation" to the show. One cannot make such a thing up.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on October 02, 2022, 08:24:59 AM

Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

They sure did; and one of the “superfans” who was interviewed recently still hasn’t seen a single episode.

Keep in mind that the SJWs will blow huge amounts of money to use something as an agenda platform. Ot matters not one bit that the seies is trash and will likely lose money. Just long as they can poison a few more minds and spread their mental disease a little further. And it doesnt even have to be the show itself. All they have to do is make it look like a product has some agenda insertion and then play victim and rake in a few more supporters.

Remember. WOTC pulls this alot. Others have been too.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Tallifer on October 02, 2022, 09:16:35 AM
In agreement with Reckall, I have noticed in real life how obese white cows monopolize any political or corporate meeting or anything while pretending solidarity with brownies and blackies. These days it has gotten worse because the white cows are actually men who pretend to be women so they can screw adolescent girls while pretending to be lesbians.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 02, 2022, 05:54:47 PM
Reckall, I had a sudden brainwave. Or fart, take it as you will. But do you know what your description of the scene with Arondir and Bronwyn reminds me of?

The way Finn (John Boyega) got kicked to the curb in the Star Wars sequels.

Seriously. I am getting the same vibe. For all their talk about 'muh diversity' or 'muh representation', what these worthless fucks want is tokens. Stand right there, little colored boy, so we can look good for the cameras, but don't talk.

But we're the fucking racists?
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Philotomy Jurament on October 02, 2022, 11:51:29 PM
The show is a waste of time. Even if it were stripped of its Tolkien branding it's poor. Bad writing, bad casting, bad acting, et cetera.

And it's clear that the Tolkien branding is purely an attempt to grab some interest because Tolkien and Middle Earth are popular. There's no attempt to actually follow what Tolkien wrote, either in particulars or in tone, et cetera.

I've written it off and won't be watching, going forward. I'd rather go read some actual Tolkien Second Age stories than waste my time on Amazon's weird and misguided fanfic.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 03, 2022, 09:27:12 AM
The show is a waste of time. Even if it were stripped of its Tolkien branding it's poor. Bad writing, bad casting, bad acting, et cetera.

And it's clear that the Tolkien branding is purely an attempt to grab some interest because Tolkien and Middle Earth are popular. There's no attempt to actually follow what Tolkien wrote, either in particulars or in tone, et cetera.

I've written it off and won't be watching, going forward. I'd rather go read some actual Tolkien Second Age stories than waste my time on Amazon's weird and misguided fanfic.
Hell, The Last Ringbearer was better than this tripe.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on October 05, 2022, 10:24:50 AM
Reckall, I had a sudden brainwave. Or fart, take it as you will. But do you know what your description of the scene with Arondir and Bronwyn reminds me of?

The way Finn (John Boyega) got kicked to the curb in the Star Wars sequels.

Seriously. I am getting the same vibe. For all their talk about 'muh diversity' or 'muh representation', what these worthless fucks want is tokens. Stand right there, little colored boy, so we can look good for the cameras, but don't talk.

But we're the fucking racists?

Yeah, I have the same vibe. One of the most heard grumbles about this show was the presence of a female black dwarf, Disa. "Why the heck dwarves should need melanin?" Then the show comes out and two things happen: A) Her character is among the best, both warm and funny and B) She is barely in the show. Six hours in and Disa appeared for less than ten minutes. You do the math.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on October 06, 2022, 12:45:05 AM
Baiting, tokenism and outrage marketing at its best. Playing both sides and in the end wasting potential.

Must be former WOTC staff. Failure is the only option.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on October 06, 2022, 01:14:09 PM
Reckall, I had a sudden brainwave. Or fart, take it as you will. But do you know what your description of the scene with Arondir and Bronwyn reminds me of?

The way Finn (John Boyega) got kicked to the curb in the Star Wars sequels.

Seriously. I am getting the same vibe. For all their talk about 'muh diversity' or 'muh representation', what these worthless fucks want is tokens. Stand right there, little colored boy, so we can look good for the cameras, but don't talk.

But we're the fucking racists?

Remember that spoof photoshop of "Titania McGrath" looking sexy in front of all the poor Africans that she's "helping"? I couldn't find it, but it's pretty darn on the nose.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on October 12, 2022, 04:41:15 PM
I wanted to like the show...you know...Tolkien and all. But I couldn't make it past ep.4. It's just so dull and boring, with bad writing and acting. But I do agree with some of my fav youtubers titles for the show. Rings of Representation, Recycled Rings of Fantasy LOL
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: DocJones on October 12, 2022, 04:48:43 PM
Reckall, I had a sudden brainwave. Or fart, take it as you will. But do you know what your description of the scene with Arondir and Bronwyn reminds me of?

The way Finn (John Boyega) got kicked to the curb in the Star Wars sequels.

Seriously. I am getting the same vibe. For all their talk about 'muh diversity' or 'muh representation', what these worthless fucks want is tokens. Stand right there, little colored boy, so we can look good for the cameras, but don't talk.

But we're the fucking racists?
Yeah, I have the same vibe. One of the most heard grumbles about this show was the presence of a female black dwarf, Disa. "Why the heck dwarves should need melanin?" Then the show comes out and two things happen: A) Her character is among the best, both warm and funny and B) She is barely in the show. Six hours in and Disa appeared for less than ten minutes. You do the math.
It's really weird that there are only one black dwarf and one black elf in all of Middleearth.
They should have just named them "Token" like South Park.



Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: RandyB on October 12, 2022, 05:12:18 PM
Reckall, I had a sudden brainwave. Or fart, take it as you will. But do you know what your description of the scene with Arondir and Bronwyn reminds me of?

The way Finn (John Boyega) got kicked to the curb in the Star Wars sequels.

Seriously. I am getting the same vibe. For all their talk about 'muh diversity' or 'muh representation', what these worthless fucks want is tokens. Stand right there, little colored boy, so we can look good for the cameras, but don't talk.

But we're the fucking racists?
Yeah, I have the same vibe. One of the most heard grumbles about this show was the presence of a female black dwarf, Disa. "Why the heck dwarves should need melanin?" Then the show comes out and two things happen: A) Her character is among the best, both warm and funny and B) She is barely in the show. Six hours in and Disa appeared for less than ten minutes. You do the math.
It's really weird that there are only one black dwarf and one black elf in all of Middleearth.
They should have just named them "Token" like South Park.

Nah. They'd get Scott Adams'd.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on October 15, 2022, 05:17:29 PM
I wanted to like the show...you know...Tolkien and all. But I couldn't make it past ep.4. It's just so dull and boring, with bad writing and acting. But I do agree with some of my fav youtubers titles for the show. Rings of Representation, Recycled Rings of Fantasy LOL

Well, I watched the finale and... Let's put things this way: according to the show we just saw Galadriel's final descent into the Dark Side and Sauron having a direct hand in the creation of the Elven Rings. Let that sink for a min.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on October 16, 2022, 12:10:17 AM
I wanted to like the show...you know...Tolkien and all. But I couldn't make it past ep.4. It's just so dull and boring, with bad writing and acting. But I do agree with some of my fav youtubers titles for the show. Rings of Representation, Recycled Rings of Fantasy LOL

Well, I watched the finale and... Let's put things this way: according to the show we just saw Galadriel's final descent into the Dark Side and Sauron having a direct hand in the creation of the Elven Rings. Let that sink for a min.

….and I thought the Silmaril in the tree leading to the creation of the elf-saving mithril was taking it a bit far.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 18, 2022, 12:33:41 PM
I wanted to like the show...you know...Tolkien and all. But I couldn't make it past ep.4. It's just so dull and boring, with bad writing and acting. But I do agree with some of my fav youtubers titles for the show. Rings of Representation, Recycled Rings of Fantasy LOL

Well, I watched the finale and... Let's put things this way: according to the show we just saw Galadriel's final descent into the Dark Side and Sauron having a direct hand in the creation of the Elven Rings. Let that sink for a min.
I'm so glad I didn't watch this.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Wrath of God on October 22, 2022, 10:11:08 AM
Quote
Well, I watched the finale and... Let's put things this way: according to the show we just saw Galadriel's final descent into the Dark Side and Sauron having a direct hand in the creation of the Elven Rings. Let that sink for a min.

Wait? What?

I mean I did not payed much attention watching - but I thought we saw: Galadriel unmasking Halbrand and Sauron -> Sauron trying to kill her in Dreamworld -> Sauron escaping -> Galadriel going to Celebrimbor and telling him they need to make Rings untouched by anyone by elves. Did I get something wrong - because as it was shown it seems as clumsy dumb way to lead us to Elven Rings as untouched by Sauron (though influenced by his knowledge) - and that's canonical solution.

Of course it's dumb, and Galadriel is still travesty - especially with her not revealing Sauron's identity to avoid problems with other elves - but it seems she quite clearly wants to purge Sauron influence over Celebrimbor (which took only 5 minutes of show and thats freaking travesty on its own).

Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on October 22, 2022, 12:09:19 PM
Quote
Well, I watched the finale and... Let's put things this way: according to the show we just saw Galadriel's final descent into the Dark Side and Sauron having a direct hand in the creation of the Elven Rings. Let that sink for a min.

Wait? What?

I mean I did not payed much attention watching - but I thought we saw: Galadriel unmasking Halbrand and Sauron -> Sauron trying to kill her in Dreamworld -> Sauron escaping -> Galadriel going to Celebrimbor and telling him they need to make Rings untouched by anyone by elves. Did I get something wrong - because as it was shown it seems as clumsy dumb way to lead us to Elven Rings as untouched by Sauron (though influenced by his knowledge) - and that's canonical solution.

Of course it's dumb, and Galadriel is still travesty - especially with her not revealing Sauron's identity to avoid problems with other elves - but it seems she quite clearly wants to purge Sauron influence over Celebrimbor (which took only 5 minutes of show and thats freaking travesty on its own).

Consider these facts, all openly given to us by the show:

- Halbrand/Sauron lives in Celebrimbor's lab for a while. He gives counseil, manipulates the metals, we simply don't know what else he can have done. Remember, in the books the three Elven Rings were forged in total secret. The problem for the elves was that they used Sauron's teachings anyway, so they were still tied to the One Ring. The elves didn't use them until Sauron lost the One Ring in the War of the Last Alliance.

- Sauron enters Galadriel's mind! This is an amazing deviation from the lore, as Galadriel main power was her ability to conceal her thoughts (and protect from unwanted intrusion the area around her). Anyway it is unclear how/if he was able to manipulate her mind. What we know is that...

- Halbrand escapes after pointing out, quite correctly, that his return as "King of Mordor" was all Galadriel's doing - he actually was on the verge of retiring! It wasn't Sauron who manipulated Galadriel, it was Galadriel who manipulated Halbrand for her own ends. Even worse, Galadriel across the show was guided by a "the end justifies the means" drive that not only is as un-Tolkienian as it gets but also it is the same drive that guides Sauron. He flatly tells her that he wants the very same thing: to heal Middle-earth. Galadriel whines that she wants the same but not "as a ruler". Fine. Pity that what Galadriel wants is "do what I want and shut up", whereas even a Ruler has limits. She disobeys her King Gil-galad. She offends Tar-Míriel in front of her court. She lies about "being the Commander of the Northern Armies (Galadriel was stripped of this title by Gil-galad in the very first episode after pulling a stunt too far). She speaks for Halbrand without Halbrand's knowledge or permission (!) After a military disaster of her own making she promises that the elven armies will clean up the mess without having any authority, much less informing Gil-galad... And the list goes on.

- So, Halbrand/Sauron escapes and, in one of the most amazing turns of a show whose plots already make no sense, she keeps quiet about Halbrand being Sauron. And no one asks her about why Halbrand should never be named again. Even worse, she now asks for a Ring of Power. I mean...

- But, at the end, all comes down to a single thing: Halbrand/Sauron could have killed Galadriel, Celebrimbor, maybe even Elrond, stolen the alloys needed for making the Elven Rings, and destroyed Celebrimbor's forge - thus closing the chapter on the elves once for all (in one of the most baffling narrative choices among many there is this idea that the elves "need to use mithril to heal some sort of corruption or they will fade within next Spring; I know, don't ask, there are no answers).

So, there is only one way for the end to make sense: Sauron somehow corrupted the three Elven Rings. Galadriel not only is the sole responsible for the return of Sauron (!!) but she is also now devoured by a "righteous darkness" which will only expand once she gets a Ring. There is literally no coming back from this except via a final sacrifice and death (which is impossible, unless Amazon somehow has the rights to kill Galadriel): it is a very bad retelling of the story of Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker. Given these assumptions, it is easy to see why Sauron just went away: the elves and now firmly under his grasp.

As a side note, no, IMHO nothing of this will impact the Second Season. No one will inquiry about Halbrand/Sauron, the Elves will "heal the corruption" using the power of the Rings, the Elven Rings will not be corrupted, Galadriel - now more powerful - will restart her war against Sauron and... Wait, what about the other Rings of Power? The Seven and the Nine? Who will forge them now that Sauron is out of the bag? (contrary to the lore, where they were forged before the Three) I mean, either Celebrimbor will do it - which means that Galadriel will keep quiet on Sauron and be complicit even in the creation of the Nazgûls - or it will be Sauron the creator - which means that the elves will alert no one about accepting certain gifts.

It is entirely possible that everything will be solved by a single line in a "prologue": "We healed the elves using our three Rings, but before we could warn anyone Sauron forged other sixteen Rings that he gave away as gifts, then ruling them all via a Master Ring; the situation was now truly grim..." - no other answers given.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Wrath of God on October 22, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
I think you are trying to read too much esoteric lore from what's clearly shoddy screenwriting.

The whole last scene with Elven Rings was precisely - forging of Three in secrecy, just rather than by cunning of Celebrimbor it was done by everyone obey Gal because she's strong female character.
Sauron was already gone. His previous works with Celebrimbor - done between scenes shall be tainted - Elven rings only controlable by One Ring - probably forged in the finale of Season 2.

(Also to be precise - Elves used Three for 10 years between their forging, and Sauron putting One Ring on his finger.)

And her not telling is just another shoddy storytelling - it's not to make her Darth Galadriel - but more to create future tension between Elves, when her omission (out of shame I guess) will be revealed and other Elves stop trusting her. And I think Sauron just leaving without destroying further is meant to prolong his antivillain arc - second season is meant to be Sauron centric. (And of course direct attack on forge full of Elves, presumably, could not necessarily be successful - I'm not sure Sauron here is powerful enough to risk direct attack on basically whole Eregion.

Quote
It is entirely possible that everything will be solved by a single line in a "prologue": "We healed the elves using our three Rings, but before we could warn anyone Sauron forged other sixteen Rings that he gave away as gifts, then ruling them all via a Master Ring; the situation was now truly grim..." - no other answers given.

Solutions: lesser Rings of Power were done in finale o season 1 - but sort of of-screen in scenes where Celebrimbor is working with Halbrand.
Celebrimbor will give Three to most powerful Eldar leaders - Galadriel, Gil-Galad - and start working on lesser rings. Lesser rings shall fall into Sauron hands when he attack Eregion, and maybe Ring of Fire, and it's gonna be Sauron who give Ring to Gandalf, but Gandalf will manage to grasp the Ring from under Sauron influence. Or maybe Gandalf gonna be possessed by Sauron, but restored after Sauron's fall - allowing him to resume Istari job. I mean - all options are on table.

TBH I'm not sure to what degree lore of 3 - 7 - 9 is explained in LOTR appendixes, maybe they had to invent shit up because original lore was banned from them
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on October 22, 2022, 09:26:27 PM
I think you are trying to read too much esoteric lore from what's clearly shoddy screenwriting.

For sure the writing is shoddy - however, it is also deeply inconsistent with itself.

Quote
The whole last scene with Elven Rings was precisely - forging of Three in secrecy, just rather than by cunning of Celebrimbor it was done by everyone obey Gal because she's strong female character.

There is no secret: Sauron was about to help to forge two of them - and I don't see why he should help to forge two Rings if he hasn't his own convenience. Gal only asks for a third. Nothing, in the way they are forged, changes, because no one knows that Sauron had a direct hand in their creation. And, no matter how one tries to put things, nothing changes the fact that Sauron could just have killed everybody and be done - or the absurdity that Galadriel keeps quiet on the fact that Halbrand is Sauron (and no one asks her about him).

Quote
And her not telling is just another shoddy storytelling - it's not to make her Darth Galadriel.

I don't think that even they understand anymore what they are putting on screen.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Wrath of God on October 23, 2022, 05:31:00 AM
Quote
There is no secret: Sauron was about to help to forge two of them - and I don't see why he should help to forge two Rings if he hasn't his own convenience. Gal only asks for a third. Nothing, in the way they are forged, changes, because no one knows that Sauron had a direct hand in their creation. And, no matter how one tries to put things, nothing changes the fact that Sauron could just have killed everybody and be done - or the absurdity that Galadriel keeps quiet on the fact that Halbrand is Sauron (and no one asks her about him).

Everybody just forgot that Halbrand, King of South was a thing ;)
I would merely disagree with Sauron being able to kill everybody - he is not that buff. I'd like to remind - he was slain with One Ring on his power, exponentialy enhancing his inherent Maia power by two Children. (I mean very likely his power levels gonna be vastly incoherent in this story but that';s another thing).

So I think it's gonna be revealed Celebrimbor and Sauron forged some lesser rings before as experiments (and those will be given) or Sauron gonna forge them alone (still may be intrigue about someone learning it and trying to stop him) and Galadriel omission due to shame will be brought back as unecessary source of drama and tension.

But I think even in most straight analysis of what happened - I don't think we get Galadriel. We get Galadriel that was tricked, and then was to ashamed to admit it to other Elda - kinda in line with her brash proud character in show. What's really dumb is not Galadriel not admitting it - but all the other Eldars forgetting Halbrand, and just taking advices from her.

And what's extremely idiotic is fact that whole Celebrimbor-Sauron cooperation that should be pivotal element of story took like 3 minutes.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 23, 2022, 12:57:30 PM
It's hard to tell how much of this is spectacular incompetence and how much is just shitty writing. I know, it sounds like I'm repeating myself. But it's not just that they're writing a lousy story, it's that they're not even consistent in the story itself.

L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth is not a great book, but it is reasonably internally consistent, by comparison.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on October 23, 2022, 03:49:54 PM
Quote
There is no secret: Sauron was about to help to forge two of them - and I don't see why he should help to forge two Rings if he hasn't his own convenience. Gal only asks for a third. Nothing, in the way they are forged, changes, because no one knows that Sauron had a direct hand in their creation. And, no matter how one tries to put things, nothing changes the fact that Sauron could just have killed everybody and be done - or the absurdity that Galadriel keeps quiet on the fact that Halbrand is Sauron (and no one asks her about him).

Everybody just forgot that Halbrand, King of South was a thing ;)
I would merely disagree with Sauron being able to kill everybody - he is not that buff. I'd like to remind - he was slain with One Ring on his power, exponentialy enhancing his inherent Maia power by two Children. (I mean very likely his power levels gonna be vastly incoherent in this story but that';s another thing).

"Sauron killing everybody" in this series shouldn't be intended as a magical battle. He could have taken Galadriel's dagger while she was KOed and cut her throat. Then he could have gone to Celebrimbor to "continue the work", stab him in the back, steal the mithril and run away. It was that simple, unless Sauron wants for the Rings to be forged and for Galadriel to be alive. Remember, he was helping the elves in the creation of the Rings - they were even clueless before he arrived, because Celebrimbor didn't know the concept of "alloy"! Since Galadriel doesn't reveal that Halbrand is Sauron, I can simply can't see how they will change something done under his supervision, and thus how the Rings can be anything good.

To be clear, I don't think that we will have "Darth Galadriel", only that this is what they showed: an irremediable descent into the dark side via her blind desire for vengeance. In this series Galadriel is the very first do admit that there is a darkness in her: it is so strong that she even fears to go back to Valinor. Adar tells her "You are looking for Sauron? Look in a mirror". Sauron basically tells her the same! Will they respect what they have openly written? No.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: jhkim on October 26, 2022, 02:30:07 PM
I've avoided this thread since I had also previously avoided the series. However, my girlfriend wanted to see it, so I just finished watching season one with her.

In general, my impression is that they're trying to recreate Game of Thrones as a phenomenon using Second Age Middle Earth, though bearing in mind I haven't seen Game of Thrones. But they're trying for a grim-n-gritty epic vibe. I don't feel there's anything progressive about the general storyline, but to try to appeal to more liberal viewers, they tossed in some female leads and some black side characters.


So, there is only one way for the end to make sense: Sauron somehow corrupted the three Elven Rings. Galadriel not only is the sole responsible for the return of Sauron (!!) but she is also now devoured by a "righteous darkness" which will only expand once she gets a Ring. There is literally no coming back from this except via a final sacrifice and death (which is impossible, unless Amazon somehow has the rights to kill Galadriel): it is a very bad retelling of the story of Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker. Given these assumptions, it is easy to see why Sauron just went away: the elves and now firmly under his grasp.

Under the premises of the show, if Galadriel had halted making the rings, then the elves would all have to leave Middle Earth to return to Valinor. Yes, that is nowhere in Tolkien, but it's what they've chosen. Galadriel doesn't want to leave, because she wants to kill Sauron. So I think her intent is to use the weapon of the enemy against him.

Yes, she is sliding into darkness - but I suspect it is walking into a trap because she thinks that getting through the trap is the only way to beat the enemy. I don't see much parallel to the Anakin Skywalker storyline, because Galadriel has been intent on killing Sauron from the start. I suspect there may be parallels to the Doctor Yueh storyline in Dune - someone who hates their enemy so much they are willing to betray their allies for a chance to kill him.

I think the writers still plan to keep consistency with the Lord of the Rings films (though obviously not the books). So Galadriel will eventually be redeemed, Isildur will cut off Sauron's fingers, Elrond will unsuccessfully take him to Mount Doom, etc. But a bunch of unexpected stuff may happen along the way and most of the characters have an unknown future.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on October 27, 2022, 02:56:25 AM
It's hard to tell how much of this is spectacular incompetence and how much is just shitty writing. I know, it sounds like I'm repeating myself. But it's not just that they're writing a lousy story, it's that they're not even consistent in the story itself.

L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth is not a great book, but it is reasonably internally consistent, by comparison.

So obviously Rings of Power needs more camera tilt?  8)
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 27, 2022, 08:20:38 AM
It's hard to tell how much of this is spectacular incompetence and how much is just shitty writing. I know, it sounds like I'm repeating myself. But it's not just that they're writing a lousy story, it's that they're not even consistent in the story itself.

L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth is not a great book, but it is reasonably internally consistent, by comparison.

So obviously Rings of Power needs more camera tilt?  8)
I said the book, not the godawful movie. :D

I still wonder if Travolta was a double agent and encouraged Scientology to waste money on that dumpster fire.

But yeah. Not only is RoP a poor story, it's not even consistent internally, which is even more jarring.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Reckall on October 27, 2022, 03:25:52 PM
So, there is only one way for the end to make sense: Sauron somehow corrupted the three Elven Rings. Galadriel not only is the sole responsible for the return of Sauron (!!) but she is also now devoured by a "righteous darkness" which will only expand once she gets a Ring. There is literally no coming back from this except via a final sacrifice and death (which is impossible, unless Amazon somehow has the rights to kill Galadriel): it is a very bad retelling of the story of Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker. Given these assumptions, it is easy to see why Sauron just went away: the elves and now firmly under his grasp.

Under the premises of the show, if Galadriel had halted making the rings, then the elves would all have to leave Middle Earth to return to Valinor. Yes, that is nowhere in Tolkien, but it's what they've chosen. Galadriel doesn't want to leave, because she wants to kill Sauron. So I think her intent is to use the weapon of the enemy against him.

This, however, is the very reason why Sauron should simply have killed Galadriel and destroyed any means for the elves to forge the Rings. As I said, the only reason for Sauron to allow the forge of the Elven Rings is that he, somehow, will control them.

And, as I said, this will not happen. What I just wrote, literally, never entered the mind of the scriptwriters.

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Yes, she is sliding into darkness - but I suspect it is walking into a trap because she thinks that getting through the trap is the only way to beat the enemy. I don't see much parallel to the Anakin Skywalker storyline, because Galadriel has been intent on killing Sauron from the start. I suspect there may be parallels to the Doctor Yueh storyline in Dune - someone who hates their enemy so much they are willing to betray their allies for a chance to kill him.

In line of principle I agree with you. However, both Anakin and Galadriel are actually manipulated by the local Evil Baddie(tm) and believe in a Greater Good(R) reachable only after "touching darkness" (an open fixation for Galadriel). Sauron even explains to Galadriel why she is the sole responsible for his return (in a scene worth of Ellery Queen).

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I think the writers still plan to keep consistency with the Lord of the Rings films (though obviously not the books).

Amazon Studios is contractually obliged to prove that this show will never reach the LotR films. They, literally, have to prove that RoP and the films are not happening in the same universe. This led originally to the death of Celeborn - now corrected in a pickup shot where Galadriel says that he is MIA (Why she isn't looking for her husband? Dunno, I guess not even they do).

So, maybe Elendil and Gil-galad will survive, or it will be Galadriel who will cut Sauron's finger (with Isildur picking up the One Ring). Anyway, they must do something big and clear that will break any continuity with the films.

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So Galadriel will eventually be redeemed, Isildur will cut off Sauron's fingers, Elrond will unsuccessfully take him to Mount Doom, etc. But a bunch of unexpected stuff may happen along the way and most of the characters have an unknown future.

The problem that I see is that Galadriel is beyond redemption - except via the classic "act of redemption ---> death". I don't think that these guy are realising the place they are in. The result will be an aberration.

Anyway...

Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: jhkim on October 27, 2022, 05:07:29 PM
So, there is only one way for the end to make sense: Sauron somehow corrupted the three Elven Rings. Galadriel not only is the sole responsible for the return of Sauron (!!) but she is also now devoured by a "righteous darkness" which will only expand once she gets a Ring. There is literally no coming back from this except via a final sacrifice and death (which is impossible, unless Amazon somehow has the rights to kill Galadriel): it is a very bad retelling of the story of Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker. Given these assumptions, it is easy to see why Sauron just went away: the elves and now firmly under his grasp.

Under the premises of the show, if Galadriel had halted making the rings, then the elves would all have to leave Middle Earth to return to Valinor. Yes, that is nowhere in Tolkien, but it's what they've chosen. Galadriel doesn't want to leave, because she wants to kill Sauron. So I think her intent is to use the weapon of the enemy against him.

This, however, is the very reason why Sauron should simply have killed Galadriel and destroyed any means for the elves to forge the Rings. As I said, the only reason for Sauron to allow the forge of the Elven Rings is that he, somehow, will control them.
The problem that I see is that Galadriel is beyond redemption - except via the classic "act of redemption ---> death". I don't think that these guy are realising the place they are in. The result will be an aberration.

As I see it, there's way too many unknowns to say that there is only one possible reason. Given that it only has to be consistent with itself, there a wide range that it can do so. Sauron evidently believes that the elves making the rings is ultimately to his advantage. However, there are many possible ways that he could think it is to his advantage. For example, maybe there is a chance that the elves could make peace with the dwarves and get more mithril, and having the rings means they won't try as hard for that.

From what I've seen so far, I doubt the writers will end up giving a good explanation of it all. But in theory, there are a lot of ways this could resolve and still be internally consistent.

From my perspective, Galadriel hasn't done anything terribly dark so far - with the worst being not telling the others about what she learned from Sauron. Even that might be revealed as her memory of those events having been wiped by magic, for example. A lot of protagonists have done much darker stuff than she has.
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Wrath of God on October 27, 2022, 06:55:19 PM
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This, however, is the very reason why Sauron should simply have killed Galadriel and destroyed any means for the elves to forge the Rings. As I said, the only reason for Sauron to allow the forge of the Elven Rings is that he, somehow, will control them.

And, as I said, this will not happen. What I just wrote, literally, never entered the mind of the scriptwriters.

I mean - he will. One Ring have power over Three despite them not being tainted directly. Like superior remote control.
So Sauron may think he can re-take Rings anyway - and elves having Rings is a chance to control them (that part will fail obviously).

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So, maybe Elendil and Gil-galad will survive, or it will be Galadriel who will cut Sauron's finger (with Isildur picking up the One Ring). Anyway, they must do something big and clear that will break any continuity with the films.

I think Sauron not being Vhailor from Planescape will be enough. And Gil-Galad and Elendil defeating him properly.

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The problem that I see is that Galadriel is beyond redemption - except via the classic "act of redemption ---> death". I don't think that these guy are realising the place they are in. The result will be an aberration.

I'm not really sure why? Redemption by death is kinda shitty motive - it's not how it works. Galadriel on this level did nothing so outright evil that would make her irredeemable, and going bit overboard in hunting Sauron is not nearly that evil. Really darkest thing she's done in entire first series was not admitting to Celebrimbor and Elrond that Halbrand was Sauron.

Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Trond on October 27, 2022, 09:50:32 PM
(https://i.redd.it/1flz1tj7cgw91.jpg)
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Omega on October 28, 2022, 05:26:49 AM
Pure speculation. But what could happen is that Galadriel just saves telling everyone for some big dramatic moment.

Another option is that someone else finds out she knows and blows the lid off her plans. And she will have to go through some phony baloney redemption arc to get back everyones respect.

They can also just pull the old, what you saw wasnt what you thought you saw gag. That wasnt the real Galadriel! That was a, uh, um, WERE-Galadriel. Dont ask. Its an elf thing.  :o
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: DocJones on October 28, 2022, 11:28:47 AM
I could fix this.
Season 2 Episode 1.
Celeborn returns, takes Galadriel over his knee and gives her a good spanking.
He then takes away her armor (and shoes of course) and orders her to "make him a sammich".
Title: Re: The Rings of Power gets obliterated (except by the shills)
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 30, 2022, 12:36:23 AM
(https://i.redd.it/1flz1tj7cgw91.jpg)

I think I'd rather push tacks into my eyeballs that watch this show.