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Author Topic: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop  (Read 19112 times)

GeekyBugle

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #150 on: March 01, 2022, 10:39:32 PM »
Yeah, pretty much everything we've heard from Bezos and the Amazon camp suggests that this has nothing to do with love and respect for Toklien's works.  He wants to make a splash and stroke his ego and the ridiculous statements about making "the novel Tolkien never wrote that could only be done now" underscore this.  I don't think he cares about the money itself, but they are clearly getting stung by the backlash from real fans which seems to be much more than they expected.  But, assuming that many of us tune out and avoid the series, it may get lost when the show airs and the general populace watches it as just another fantasy show.
Has Bezos made any real statements about this, or is just people attributing marketingese to the chief?

Yes; Bezos formerly said that he wanted his Game of Thrones.  It was framed as wanting that mega-show that everyone talks about, though people at the time feared he wanted to make it full of sex and nudity.  Of course what they seem to be doing is far worse than slapping an "R" rating on Tolkien.  He also professed a passion/obsession with Lord of the Rings, though it's hard to see how this reflects that beyond him thinking he can make it "better," which is certainly the message we're getting from the show runners.

Maybe because they hired an intimacy coordinator? Add to that he wants his own GoT and you get justified fears they'll make it as pornographic as they can.
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Persimmon

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #151 on: March 01, 2022, 10:41:53 PM »
Yeah, there was a lot of buzz about the intimacy coordinator.  And that definitely doesn't seem to fit the Tolkien vibe.  But I'd take that over Galadriel of Arc and the Questioning Architect Elrond...

GeekyBugle

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #152 on: March 01, 2022, 11:49:23 PM »
Yeah, there was a lot of buzz about the intimacy coordinator.  And that definitely doesn't seem to fit the Tolkien vibe.  But I'd take that over Galadriel of Arc and the Questioning Architect Elrond...

Don't worry, you'll get both. With heavy doses of gay porn on top.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #153 on: March 02, 2022, 12:39:36 AM »
Yeah, there was a lot of buzz about the intimacy coordinator.
It should be a piece of paper that says 'No'.

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #154 on: March 02, 2022, 01:23:24 AM »
Yeah, pretty much everything we've heard from Bezos and the Amazon camp suggests that this has nothing to do with love and respect for Toklien's works.  He wants to make a splash and stroke his ego and the ridiculous statements about making "the novel Tolkien never wrote that could only be done now" underscore this.  I don't think he cares about the money itself, but they are clearly getting stung by the backlash from real fans which seems to be much more than they expected.  But, assuming that many of us tune out and avoid the series, it may get lost when the show airs and the general populace watches it as just another fantasy show.
Has Bezos made any real statements about this, or is just people attributing marketingese to the chief?

Yes; Bezos formerly said that he wanted his Game of Thrones.  It was framed as wanting that mega-show that everyone talks about, though people at the time feared he wanted to make it full of sex and nudity.  Of course what they seem to be doing is far worse than slapping an "R" rating on Tolkien.  He also professed a passion/obsession with Lord of the Rings, though it's hard to see how this reflects that beyond him thinking he can make it "better," which is certainly the message we're getting from the show runners.
Thanks for the summary. Had no interest in digging up the trainwreck myself.

Ghostmaker

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #155 on: March 02, 2022, 08:06:22 AM »
I have to admit, the thought that this is solely to shit on Tolkien refuses to leave my mind. Because there's plenty of books that could be adapted for a low-fantasy series. Why try to shoehorn LOTR into that genre?

Is it about name recognition? Could be. But that just means the Tolkien fans are going to be eyeballing it with the autistic focus of a goddamn Trekkie. And then they're going to get pissed off.

Heaping money into a pile and burning it, a la Ledger's Joker, may look cool and edgy, but shareholders tend to get really grumpy about that sort of thing. Even Larry Fink can't fund duh-versity and shitty wokeness forever.

It kinda pisses me off, seeing all this money and time wasted like this. How about an adaptation of the Black Company novels? Or Thieves' World? Heck, if I didn't think they'd fuck it up I'd go for an adaptation of the Belgariad. But no, we get a shitty LOTR Second Age story that's about on a par with a slash fic written by some starry-eyed teenager with a hobbit fetish.

Persimmon

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #156 on: March 02, 2022, 08:17:04 AM »
I have to admit, the thought that this is solely to shit on Tolkien refuses to leave my mind. Because there's plenty of books that could be adapted for a low-fantasy series. Why try to shoehorn LOTR into that genre?

Is it about name recognition? Could be. But that just means the Tolkien fans are going to be eyeballing it with the autistic focus of a goddamn Trekkie. And then they're going to get pissed off.

Heaping money into a pile and burning it, a la Ledger's Joker, may look cool and edgy, but shareholders tend to get really grumpy about that sort of thing. Even Larry Fink can't fund duh-versity and shitty wokeness forever.

It kinda pisses me off, seeing all this money and time wasted like this. How about an adaptation of the Black Company novels? Or Thieves' World? Heck, if I didn't think they'd fuck it up I'd go for an adaptation of the Belgariad. But no, we get a shitty LOTR Second Age story that's about on a par with a slash fic written by some starry-eyed teenager with a hobbit fetish.

Hell, even Lankhmar.  So yeah, I definitely think it's name recognition.  Because they've got both the movie fans who haven't read the books and the book fans, who may or may not like the films to varying degrees.  No other fantasy IP has that kind of potential.  But any of those you mentioned would warrant a series but since they're older and far less known, hard to see it happening.  With Tolkien, no matter when they're setting the story, they just slap LOTR in the title and get buzz.

Ghostmaker

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #157 on: March 02, 2022, 08:30:48 AM »
I have to admit, the thought that this is solely to shit on Tolkien refuses to leave my mind. Because there's plenty of books that could be adapted for a low-fantasy series. Why try to shoehorn LOTR into that genre?

Is it about name recognition? Could be. But that just means the Tolkien fans are going to be eyeballing it with the autistic focus of a goddamn Trekkie. And then they're going to get pissed off.

Heaping money into a pile and burning it, a la Ledger's Joker, may look cool and edgy, but shareholders tend to get really grumpy about that sort of thing. Even Larry Fink can't fund duh-versity and shitty wokeness forever.

It kinda pisses me off, seeing all this money and time wasted like this. How about an adaptation of the Black Company novels? Or Thieves' World? Heck, if I didn't think they'd fuck it up I'd go for an adaptation of the Belgariad. But no, we get a shitty LOTR Second Age story that's about on a par with a slash fic written by some starry-eyed teenager with a hobbit fetish.

Hell, even Lankhmar.  So yeah, I definitely think it's name recognition.  Because they've got both the movie fans who haven't read the books and the book fans, who may or may not like the films to varying degrees.  No other fantasy IP has that kind of potential.  But any of those you mentioned would warrant a series but since they're older and far less known, hard to see it happening.  With Tolkien, no matter when they're setting the story, they just slap LOTR in the title and get buzz.
Good call. I forgot Lankhmar.

What puzzles me is that even Jackson's LOTR films got pored over by Tolkien fans who pointed out the flaws and rough spots. And they were kind for the most part.

They're not going to be kind to the Rings of Power. It's going to be Last Jedi all over again.

Cui bono? Who profits? Or is it just for spite and the chance to humiliate another fandom? Maybe even my capacity for contempt has limits, because I can't imagine burning that much cash just to rub my dick on Tolkien's face (metaphorically speaking).

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #158 on: March 02, 2022, 09:19:16 AM »
Name recognition is so stupid. There are countless great fantasy series that languish in obscurity because they’re not Tolkien. This includes actual mythology.

Reckall

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #159 on: March 02, 2022, 04:42:03 PM »
What puzzles me is that even Jackson's LOTR films got pored over by Tolkien fans who pointed out the flaws and rough spots. And they were kind for the most part.

Jackson's LotR films got a pass when the changes made sense. For example, having Arwen saving Frodo helped with two problems: that Arwen is a very opaque character in the book (when her importance should instead be front and center) and how Tolkien himself stumbled when he tried to explain why Glorfindel wasn't part of the Nine. So, Jackson solved a potential problem without betraying the lore (even the animated adaptation had Legolas meeting the hobbits instead of Glorfindel).

However Jackson was roasted every time he went astray: Faramir, Denethor, Eowyn (partially), surfing Legolas etc. And he had the time to cut Arwen from Helm's Deep battle (there are stills that still show Liv Tyler in the background) because that one had the fans with the flamethrowers ready. In a way, studying when and why Jackson was grilled should have been a map to what not to do in TroP.

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Cui bono? Who profits?

A scary theory is that Amazon/Jeff Bezos are playing the long game. Redo the Second Age (who cares if they lose money?) buy the rights to all-Tolkien and redo woke-LotR but now in canon - because the nu-canon is TRoP. The paradox, here, is that Amazon has the rights to the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings right now - but they know that if they go against the Jackson's movies now they will be obliterated. Expect LotR in 2030 with a black gay hobbit, a trans hobbit, Frodo+Sam and Legolas+Gimli (one of the two PoC) and so on.

And if the madness of our times is, by 2030, a pale remembrance, Amazon can even try to do a proper adaptation - D&D Satanic Panic vs. 3E way.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #160 on: March 03, 2022, 09:02:14 AM »
It's an interesting theory, Reckall, but wokeists tend to be all about the immediate gratification. Some are decent at playing the long game, but I don't think these showrunners are nearly so patient.

Peter Jackson's going to look like a pillar of canon at this rate, though. There's been some leaks (posted on Bounding into Comics) that Tar-Miriel is the one ruling Numenor, not Ar-Pharazon.

Hahahaha what? Talk about spitting in the eye of the lore here. From Tolkien:

Quote
“And it came to pass that Tar-Palantir grew weary of grief and died. He had no son, but a daughter only, whom he named Míriel in the Elven-tongue; and to her now by right and the laws of the Númenóreans came the sceptre.”

“But Pharazôn took her to wife against her will, doing evil in this and evil also in that the laws of Númenor did not permit the marriage, even in the royal house, of those more nearly akin than cousins in the second degree,” he continued.

“And when they were wedded, he seized the sceptre into his own hand, taking the title of Ar-Pharazôn (Tar-Calion in the Elven-tongue); and the name of his queen he changed to Ar-Zimraphel,”

Holy fuckballs. They do realize Numenor fell during the reign of Ar-Pharazon? As in, sank into the sea? Are they going to hang the responsibility for that on Miriel? Seriously?

I have to give these dumb fuckers credit. They're making Legend of Vox Machina look like a goddamn fantasy masterpiece at this rate.

Ratman_tf

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #161 on: March 03, 2022, 09:55:44 AM »
It's an interesting theory, Reckall, but wokeists tend to be all about the immediate gratification. Some are decent at playing the long game, but I don't think these showrunners are nearly so patient.

Peter Jackson's going to look like a pillar of canon at this rate, though. There's been some leaks (posted on Bounding into Comics) that Tar-Miriel is the one ruling Numenor, not Ar-Pharazon.

Hahahaha what? Talk about spitting in the eye of the lore here. From Tolkien:

Quote
“And it came to pass that Tar-Palantir grew weary of grief and died. He had no son, but a daughter only, whom he named Míriel in the Elven-tongue; and to her now by right and the laws of the Númenóreans came the sceptre.”

“But Pharazôn took her to wife against her will, doing evil in this and evil also in that the laws of Númenor did not permit the marriage, even in the royal house, of those more nearly akin than cousins in the second degree,” he continued.

“And when they were wedded, he seized the sceptre into his own hand, taking the title of Ar-Pharazôn (Tar-Calion in the Elven-tongue); and the name of his queen he changed to Ar-Zimraphel,”

Holy fuckballs. They do realize Numenor fell during the reign of Ar-Pharazon? As in, sank into the sea? Are they going to hang the responsibility for that on Miriel? Seriously?

I have to give these dumb fuckers credit. They're making Legend of Vox Machina look like a goddamn fantasy masterpiece at this rate.

Not if they totally rewrite the history of Numenor so that Ar-Zimraphel sees through Sauron's tricks and kicks him in the nads and saves everybody.
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Pat
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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #162 on: March 03, 2022, 10:21:46 AM »
I would have thought they'd keep Ar-Pharazôn the Golden. He's the embodiment of hubris and entitlement, so combined with his gender and presumed skin color, he'd make the perfect villain for SJWs.

Ghostmaker

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #163 on: March 03, 2022, 11:09:54 AM »
I would have thought they'd keep Ar-Pharazôn the Golden. He's the embodiment of hubris and entitlement, so combined with his gender and presumed skin color, he'd make the perfect villain for SJWs.
That's kind of my point. It's like they read to the point where Tar-Miriel takes the throne (briefly) and missed how Ar-Pharazon usurped it, and how he eventually screwed everything up.

There's a sad irony too. Before Ar-Pharazon decided to try and invade Valinor, he rolled into Middle Earth and basically pwned Sauron's forces so badly they deserted. The Numenoreans brought Sauron back home in chains. Yes, it was a very, very bad decision, but holy shit the brass balls that would take.

What's bizarre is one of the showrunners (McKay) states they can't contradict works they don't have the rights to, and then they turn around and do this? Huh?

oggsmash

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #164 on: March 03, 2022, 11:32:28 AM »
I have to admit, the thought that this is solely to shit on Tolkien refuses to leave my mind. Because there's plenty of books that could be adapted for a low-fantasy series. Why try to shoehorn LOTR into that genre?

Is it about name recognition? Could be. But that just means the Tolkien fans are going to be eyeballing it with the autistic focus of a goddamn Trekkie. And then they're going to get pissed off.

Heaping money into a pile and burning it, a la Ledger's Joker, may look cool and edgy, but shareholders tend to get really grumpy about that sort of thing. Even Larry Fink can't fund duh-versity and shitty wokeness forever.

It kinda pisses me off, seeing all this money and time wasted like this. How about an adaptation of the Black Company novels? Or Thieves' World? Heck, if I didn't think they'd fuck it up I'd go for an adaptation of the Belgariad. But no, we get a shitty LOTR Second Age story that's about on a par with a slash fic written by some starry-eyed teenager with a hobbit fetish.

  Yeah it seems if people want to have a fantasy show with "THE MESSAGE" and "PROGRESSIVE" undertones they would just take thieves world.   It already has some of the things these people try to force on other ip and honestly it is presented in an engaging and entertaining way.  Why not just use something that is already the thing you want to present?