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Author Topic: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop  (Read 9605 times)

oggsmash

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2022, 08:02:42 PM »
   Spending that kind of money on something that out of gate snubs millions and millions of fans lets me know agenda first, business a distant second.  I get that JJ Abrams clones really want to "make their mark", but maybe, just maybe...start with lots of lower budget projects and PRODUCE SOMETHING GOOD OF YOUR OWN first?
Sometimes doing things "business first" still produces shit, even if that shit sells. They want to try a new take on it, and I'll give then the benefit of the doubt until I actually see it. Once I see it though, I won't be giving it praise just for diversity...it will need to be entertaining.

  I hope you enjoy it.
We can all hope, but I don't have high expectations for it, especially after seeing their Wheel of Time.
  Yeah, Wheel of time is why I feel I can make an early call that is likely to be dead on, especially when the creators are telling me as fast as they can talk that is the case.   

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2022, 08:20:21 PM »
You think I'm arguing?
Nope, just bellittling. You don't believe my position is worth anything, and engaging in discussion with somebody who's viewpoint is 'Ur Dum - end of story' isn't worth it. Defending myself wouldn't be worth it if you don't believe that 'Woke' is even a category.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 08:23:57 PM by Shrieking Banshee »

HappyDaze

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2022, 08:29:28 PM »
   Spending that kind of money on something that out of gate snubs millions and millions of fans lets me know agenda first, business a distant second.  I get that JJ Abrams clones really want to "make their mark", but maybe, just maybe...start with lots of lower budget projects and PRODUCE SOMETHING GOOD OF YOUR OWN first?
Sometimes doing things "business first" still produces shit, even if that shit sells. They want to try a new take on it, and I'll give then the benefit of the doubt until I actually see it. Once I see it though, I won't be giving it praise just for diversity...it will need to be entertaining.

  I hope you enjoy it.
We can all hope, but I don't have high expectations for it, especially after seeing their Wheel of Time.
  Yeah, Wheel of time is why I feel I can make an early call that is likely to be dead on, especially when the creators are telling me as fast as they can talk that is the case.
Since I'm already paying for Amazon Prime, I have very little to lose by sampling it. If I'm already flipping channels, I've accepted I'm not likely to be doing anything productive with that time beyond entertaining myself. If it fails at that, at worst I've burnt some downtime.

Wrath of God

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2022, 07:05:09 PM »
Quote
This comes from a profound misunderstanding of SJW principles. SJWs have a 'we wuz robbed' view of the world and history. In their mind, Tolkien being loved came at the expense of a rightful love of a black ladies series of books, that should have existed. LotR's is a USERPER from the rightful way history should have been.

But this is Bezos' project, he wanted his GoT for Amazon.
And I sincerely doubt he is SJW. Sure progressive and cult of Mammon, but that's it. And it was in his power to choose directors, screenwriters, veto actors, and so on.

Quote
   Spending that kind of money on something that out of gate snubs millions and millions of fans lets me know agenda first, business a distant second.

It's about Bezos vanity, and last years show that streaming consoomers gonna consoom just anything.


Quote
You could have black Eastern dwarves by casting black albino actors, which would also provide albino representation and jobs for black albinos. And honestly I doubt people would complain if there were Asian and African featured elves living in the South and East. Maybe they always looked like that, maybe they're half-elves who inherited the looks of their human ancestors. You could even have anti-white racism coming from these non-white elves who use the whole "white elves were a beta test, non-white humans are God's final plan" as a rationale for their racism.

I'd say it that way - elves as race are clearly described in general description as having light skin. Avari and Sylvan elves are different cultures but not subraces - they came from the same original three race - First, Second and Third as Eldars. The darkest any elf is described is probably Caranthir the Dark, who is described as ruddy faced. Now Avari could possible mix with Men in other parts of Middle Earth, but the point is - in average situation half-elves are Men. Sure elvish ancestry can do something - Imrahil of Dol Amroth was noted as having elven look many generations after his elven ancestress but his fate was Mannish. So was with Dior Half-Elf, son of Luthien and Beren, he would live as mortal if not slain young. Earendil and Elwinga and their children get choice as very very special ocassion that in no way touched other half-elves who are truly mortal.

So elf failed right away. If anything considering action happens in Southlands it would have more sense to cast this Persian chick as Elven, and him as man.

About dwarves - I'd say they are basically earth elementals forged by God-Smith in his forge. Them having qualities of stone and metal, could be cool. But still a) dwarven women are for men and elves almost identical with men. So best pick would be to hire men to play dwarves of any gender really. That also means Disa should get at least big big beard, and manly clothes. b) ok I can get dwarves with skin like bronze and brass. But there need to be some sense of common look, not each dwarf for his own.

Now of course Dwarves were also tragically visualised in Jackson movies - with Gimli being straight from Warhammer Fantasy, and Hobbit dwarves being bunch of average lankyy handsome actors that you had to blink to notice they are dwarves, and those made to look more dwarvish look like Warhammer Fantasy but even less serious - bearded caricatures of fairy tales dwarfs mixed with chavs. So I'm gonna say - of course casting like that is bad, and her characterisation is bad. But if they gonna play Khazad Dum as this svartalfar magical kingdom mixed with Phoenician, HYebrew and Akkadian vibe rather than Warhammer/D&D funny drunken dwarves - I'm gonna forgive them multiracial dwarves. Really. Fingers to my heart.

So people seems to center on black dwarvess, but really it's elves that worrying me. Black silvan elf in some ridiculous wooden armour for one.
For other - Galadriel as warrior princess who took role of Gil-Galad and Elrond as those who first sniffed Sauron's evil plans, and Elrond as effeminated "politician" rather than herold and marshall of Gil-Galad, and general of northern armies.

"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

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With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

Ghostmaker

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2022, 07:51:32 AM »
I see HappyDerp's posts but all they say is 'just consoom product and get excited for next product', lol.

But yeah. They're going to crowbar in a shitload of wokeist trash and cry 'rayciss' if people turn their noses up at it.

What a fucking waste. The First and Second Ages were sketched out in broad strokes, but there were stories to tell. So of course these incompetent fucks have to shit it up so they can feel good about their lack of creativity and vision.

HappyDaze

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2022, 08:43:53 AM »
I see HappyDerp's posts but all they say is 'just consoom product and get excited for next product', lol.
My posts said "I'll wait and see" rather than the bullshit you wrote, but your reading comprehension has always been poor when you don't like the poster.

Ghostmaker

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2022, 08:59:10 AM »
Quote
Neither the source material nor Tolkien's ghost have voiced any complaints. However, you seem to be getting quite outraged on their behalf...you Woke, bro?

Consoom! Consoom!

Try not to be so contradictory next time.

HappyDaze

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2022, 09:10:57 AM »
Quote
Neither the source material nor Tolkien's ghost have voiced any complaints. However, you seem to be getting quite outraged on their behalf...you Woke, bro?

Consoom! Consoom!

Try not to be so contradictory next time.
Do you have evidence that the source material or Tolkien's ghost have voiced complaints or are you just shitting out of your mouth again?

Persimmon

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2022, 10:03:01 AM »
It occurred to me that they're extending, if not outright creating a new genre, "Woke Trash Fantasy," easily and properly abbreviated as WTF.

Ghostmaker

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2022, 10:12:49 AM »
It occurred to me that they're extending, if not outright creating a new genre, "Woke Trash Fantasy," easily and properly abbreviated as WTF.
"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own".

squirewaldo

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2022, 10:58:15 AM »
I think if Amazon was sincere in their desire for diversity, and smart in its execution, they would have made the story less about elves, dwarves, and hobbits, and more about men — who are diverse in reality and in the stories — and are after all the focus of most of the stories from the 2nd Age. Leave the other races as they are described in the books… elusive in their contacts with men, and inscrutable in their behavior… perhaps even sinister and menacing at times.

This obsession with diversity, only when it comes to traditionally Northern European and British stories — not when it involves Asian, African, or other stories — is only going to look dishonest and unnecessarily irritate fans who have certain reasonable expectations from reading the books.

It is not ‘racist’ to expect a story written by a British writer focusing upon British and Northern European myths and legends, attempting to create an English mythos to be ‘white’ any more than it is should be a surprise that a story set in Africa, written by an African writer, with a focus upon creating an African mythos will be rather more ‘black’.

Tolkien’s tales are not like Shakespeare; you meddle with the components at your peril.

Reckall

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2022, 12:32:54 PM »
Well, the first trailer arrived and the comments… Let’s say that they are a fine example of international cooperation ;D

For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Reckall

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2022, 12:46:42 PM »
The fact that people are even discussing this is already a "win" for them, because causing "discomfort" in presumed "white people" is primarily what this is all about, and taking delight in that discomfort is all the pleasure they really want to get out of this series.
If so, they fail at failing. Right now the internet is full of PoC who are roasting Amazon, because of course they are the very first to understand that this has nothing to do with their (alleged) cause and a lot to do with checking boxes.
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

oggsmash

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2022, 02:58:28 PM »
I think if Amazon was sincere in their desire for diversity, and smart in its execution, they would have made the story less about elves, dwarves, and hobbits, and more about men — who are diverse in reality and in the stories — and are after all the focus of most of the stories from the 2nd Age. Leave the other races as they are described in the books… elusive in their contacts with men, and inscrutable in their behavior… perhaps even sinister and menacing at times.

This obsession with diversity, only when it comes to traditionally Northern European and British stories — not when it involves Asian, African, or other stories — is only going to look dishonest and unnecessarily irritate fans who have certain reasonable expectations from reading the books.

It is not ‘racist’ to expect a story written by a British writer focusing upon British and Northern European myths and legends, attempting to create an English mythos to be ‘white’ any more than it is should be a surprise that a story set in Africa, written by an African writer, with a focus upon creating an African mythos will be rather more ‘black’.

Tolkien’s tales are not like Shakespeare; you meddle with the components at your peril.

  Imagine a series/movie where Shaka Zulu or T'challa was white.   It seems to signal creative bankruptcy when people who appear so obsessed with diversity seem to be unable to simply create a story about non white characters they are so desperate for.  Instead they must hijack intellectual properties by people a shitload harder working and more talented than they are and wipe their asses with it.   That part I do not get.  Buy an IP that is written from that perspective and that setting (non white heroes doing hero stuff), and since they are so concerned with diversity, put some non white people in charge of making and directing it, and BAM, a nice diverse production that did not have to be tokenized.

Ratman_tf

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Re: The first Amazon’s “The Woke of the Ring” pictures drop
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2022, 03:41:24 PM »
I think if Amazon was sincere in their desire for diversity, and smart in its execution, they would have made the story less about elves, dwarves, and hobbits, and more about men — who are diverse in reality and in the stories — and are after all the focus of most of the stories from the 2nd Age. Leave the other races as they are described in the books… elusive in their contacts with men, and inscrutable in their behavior… perhaps even sinister and menacing at times.

This obsession with diversity, only when it comes to traditionally Northern European and British stories — not when it involves Asian, African, or other stories — is only going to look dishonest and unnecessarily irritate fans who have certain reasonable expectations from reading the books.

It is not ‘racist’ to expect a story written by a British writer focusing upon British and Northern European myths and legends, attempting to create an English mythos to be ‘white’ any more than it is should be a surprise that a story set in Africa, written by an African writer, with a focus upon creating an African mythos will be rather more ‘black’.

Tolkien’s tales are not like Shakespeare; you meddle with the components at your peril.

  Imagine a series/movie where Shaka Zulu or T'challa was white.   It seems to signal creative bankruptcy when people who appear so obsessed with diversity seem to be unable to simply create a story about non white characters they are so desperate for.  Instead they must hijack intellectual properties by people a shitload harder working and more talented than they are and wipe their asses with it.   That part I do not get.  Buy an IP that is written from that perspective and that setting (non white heroes doing hero stuff), and since they are so concerned with diversity, put some non white people in charge of making and directing it, and BAM, a nice diverse production that did not have to be tokenized.

Because it's not enough to create a new IP (which would take talent and effort), they have to "smash" the existing hegemony.



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