Quote from: Pat on February 25, 2022, 05:28:34 PM
Except my entire point is they're doing the exact opposite. They're not making it more like the target audience. The depictions are a tokenized fiction, and it's completely inauthentic. And it's not marketing, because marketing generally involves not pissing off your audience.

Um... Outrage marketing has been a thing for at least a decade plus now. Remake product specifically designed to piss off the fans of the original. Or adaptions changed in some way to garner hate from the fans. You get people to scream and that attracts attention. Free advertising.

Pundit is the woke RPG biz's best advertiser for them because they know they can manipulate him like a puppet to raise hell. Which according to marketing = profit.

This whole Woke of the Ring is betting on outrage marketing to rake in the viewers.

And whould it fail. They have the perfect scapegoat to place all the blame on.

Quote from: Omega on February 26, 2022, 10:36:05 AM

Quote from: Pat on February 25, 2022, 05:28:34 PM
Except my entire point is they're doing the exact opposite. They're not making it more like the target audience. The depictions are a tokenized fiction, and it's completely inauthentic. And it's not marketing, because marketing generally involves not pissing off your audience.

Um... Outrage marketing has been a thing for at least a decade plus now. Remake product specifically designed to piss off the fans of the original. Or adaptions changed in some way to garner hate from the fans. You get people to scream and that attracts attention. Free advertising.

Pundit is the woke RPG biz's best advertiser for them because they know they can manipulate him like a puppet to raise hell. Which according to marketing = profit.

Er... no. The number of franchises that ended up with broken bones thanks to this delusion is endless.

Quote from: Omega on February 26, 2022, 10:36:05 AMUm... Outrage marketing has been a thing for at least a decade plus now. Remake product specifically designed to piss off the fans of the original. Or adaptions changed in some way to garner hate from the fans. You get people to scream and that attracts attention. Free advertising.

And while they are pissing off Tolkien fans, they aren't really pissing off their target audience, which are people whose only knowledge of Tolkien comes from watching the movies. That's a much, much bigger audience than people who have read the Silmarillion.

But I think there's something else going on in the background. When Sony was making Spider-man: Homecoming, their contract with Disney specified that any new characters would be considered MCU characters and couldn't be used in future Sony-only movies. Thus we ended up with fake MJ, fake Flash Thompson, and a MILF Aunt May. A similar thing happened with Star Trek and the "25% different" rule.

It came out a few months ago that the contract that Amazon has specifies that Amazon cannot contradict anything written by Tolkien. From Amazon's perspective, the best way to satisfy that term is to create a show with all-new characters, all-new locations, and all-new story elements. That way there is no possible way they can violate their contract. [an added benefit with using all-new characters is that it's easier to fire actors that aren't working out or that demand more money.]

I guess the real tragedy of this show is that the clause in the contract that was meant to protect Tolkien's writings will only end up making Tolkien's writings less relevant to his world.

The show is going to flop due to bad production, not because of the wokeness. That's just symptomatic of deeper issues. The showrunners were hired solely due to nepotism, not because they demonstrated any skill.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 27, 2022, 11:08:15 AM
The show is going to flop due to bad production, not because of the wokeness. That's just symptomatic of deeper issues. The showrunners were hired solely due to nepotism, not because they demonstrated any skill.

I couldn't agree more. I think about 90% of the woke garbage coming out of Hollyweird and other cesspools has more to do with incompetence than wokeness. These guys are hiding behind wokeness in the desperate hope that their ideological comrades will support their work even though it sucks.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 27, 2022, 12:45:03 PMThese guys are hiding behind wokeness in the desperate hope that their ideological comrades will support their work even though it sucks.

Knowing the corporate work structure thats not exactly true. Lots of places have sacrificed profitability or compitence to meet philosophical qoutas.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 27, 2022, 12:45:03 PMI think about 90% of the woke garbage coming out of Hollyweird and other cesspools has more to do with incompetence than wokeness.

Considering that a rejection of meritocracy is one of the foundational principles of wokeness, it isn't surprising that wokenss and incompetence go hand in hand.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 28, 2022, 07:39:06 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 27, 2022, 12:45:03 PMI think about 90% of the woke garbage coming out of Hollyweird and other cesspools has more to do with incompetence than wokeness.

Considering that a rejection of meritocracy is one of the foundational principles of wokeness, it isn't surprising that wokenss and incompetence go hand in hand.

Also: "Experience = Defending the White Patriarchy, Old Wood etc."

Maybe. But paying two experienced showrunner $250,000/y makes a strong case for paying two bozos $40,000/y instead.

Quote from: Reckall on March 01, 2022, 05:48:32 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 28, 2022, 07:39:06 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 27, 2022, 12:45:03 PMI think about 90% of the woke garbage coming out of Hollyweird and other cesspools has more to do with incompetence than wokeness.

Considering that a rejection of meritocracy is one of the foundational principles of wokeness, it isn't surprising that wokenss and incompetence go hand in hand.

Also: "Experience = Defending the White Patriarchy, Old Wood etc."

Maybe. But paying two experienced showrunner $250,000/y makes a strong case for paying two bozos $40,000/y instead.

Not if your show tanks hard and doesn't make back the expenses and money you invested in it.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 01, 2022, 08:29:06 AM

Quote from: Reckall on March 01, 2022, 05:48:32 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 28, 2022, 07:39:06 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 27, 2022, 12:45:03 PMI think about 90% of the woke garbage coming out of Hollyweird and other cesspools has more to do with incompetence than wokeness.

Considering that a rejection of meritocracy is one of the foundational principles of wokeness, it isn't surprising that wokenss and incompetence go hand in hand.

Also: "Experience = Defending the White Patriarchy, Old Wood etc."

Maybe. But paying two experienced showrunner $250,000/y makes a strong case for paying two bozos $40,000/y instead.

Not if your show tanks hard and doesn't make back the expenses and money you invested in it.

  That is making the assumption that the money spent was done so to make a profit.  I am not convinced that is the case here and in many other similar projects.  I think the folks funding it are getting what they want out of it.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 01, 2022, 08:48:08 AMThat is making the assumption that the money spent was done so to make a profit.  I am not convinced that is the case here and in many other similar projects.  I think the folks funding it are getting what they want out of it.

Its a psychological mix of both elements. Humans can believe contradictory things. A person can want money and how this will make a ton of it (dismissing evidence to the contrary) and also believe this will do great social change.

People cannot engage in a system of beliefs without coming away affected. If a guy just provides services for a dictatorial regime, eventually they will start playing defense for said regieme even if they came in this with a counter-bais before.

Yeah, pretty much everything we've heard from Bezos and the Amazon camp suggests that this has nothing to do with love and respect for Toklien's works.  He wants to make a splash and stroke his ego and the ridiculous statements about making "the novel Tolkien never wrote that could only be done now" underscore this.  I don't think he cares about the money itself, but they are clearly getting stung by the backlash from real fans which seems to be much more than they expected.  But, assuming that many of us tune out and avoid the series, it may get lost when the show airs and the general populace watches it as just another fantasy show.

We've seen already how they've eviscerated "The Witcher," and "Wheel of Time," which are both lesser IPs with less established fan bases with their SJW bullshit.  At least it's nice to see real fans speaking out against this trash.

Quote from: Persimmon on March 01, 2022, 10:23:21 AM
Yeah, pretty much everything we've heard from Bezos and the Amazon camp suggests that this has nothing to do with love and respect for Toklien's works.  He wants to make a splash and stroke his ego and the ridiculous statements about making "the novel Tolkien never wrote that could only be done now" underscore this.  I don't think he cares about the money itself, but they are clearly getting stung by the backlash from real fans which seems to be much more than they expected.  But, assuming that many of us tune out and avoid the series, it may get lost when the show airs and the general populace watches it as just another fantasy show.

Has Bezos made any real statements about this, or is just people attributing marketingese to the chief?

Quote from: Reckall on March 01, 2022, 05:48:32 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 28, 2022, 07:39:06 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 27, 2022, 12:45:03 PMI think about 90% of the woke garbage coming out of Hollyweird and other cesspools has more to do with incompetence than wokeness.

Considering that a rejection of meritocracy is one of the foundational principles of wokeness, it isn't surprising that wokenss and incompetence go hand in hand.

Also: "Experience = Defending the White Patriarchy, Old Wood etc."

Maybe. But paying two experienced showrunner $250,000/y makes a strong case for paying two bozos $40,000/y instead.

Someone saw Call me Chato's videos about Woke of the cRings.

Quote from: Pat on March 01, 2022, 11:47:47 AM

Quote from: Persimmon on March 01, 2022, 10:23:21 AM
Yeah, pretty much everything we've heard from Bezos and the Amazon camp suggests that this has nothing to do with love and respect for Toklien's works.  He wants to make a splash and stroke his ego and the ridiculous statements about making "the novel Tolkien never wrote that could only be done now" underscore this.  I don't think he cares about the money itself, but they are clearly getting stung by the backlash from real fans which seems to be much more than they expected.  But, assuming that many of us tune out and avoid the series, it may get lost when the show airs and the general populace watches it as just another fantasy show.

Has Bezos made any real statements about this, or is just people attributing marketingese to the chief?

Yes; Bezos formerly said that he wanted his Game of Thrones.  It was framed as wanting that mega-show that everyone talks about, though people at the time feared he wanted to make it full of sex and nudity.  Of course what they seem to be doing is far worse than slapping an "R" rating on Tolkien.  He also professed a passion/obsession with Lord of the Rings, though it's hard to see how this reflects that beyond him thinking he can make it "better," which is certainly the message we're getting from the show runners.