The Book Thread

[Voros]

Ross MacDonald also wrote a whack of fine detective novels that are more about mood and character than plot and mystery. Some of the later books touch on the 60s counterculture.

Westlake's Richard Stark novels are tough as nails and awesome. Haven't found a bad one yet.

[Dumarest]

Ross MacDonald also wrote a whack of fine detective novels that are more about mood and character than plot and mystery.

Lew Archer?

[Voros]

Yep Lew Archer is Ross MacDonald's main detective.

[Warboss Squee]

I'm not familiar with those books or that genre. But if anyone wants to talk about Ian Fleming, Frederick Nebel, Edward Aarons, E.C. Tubb, or Louis L'Amour, let me know.

Passin' Through aka the best Man with No Name. Also possibly the trope namer.

I think I've read every Louie L'Amour story except fir the Sackett series.

[Voros]

Anyone read Elmore Leonard's Westerns? I have a few but haven't cracked them open yet.

[Spike]

I haven't read any of his Westerns, but I have read about a dozen Leonard books and throughly enjoyed each and every one of them.  I did see an Elmore Leonard western FILM not too long ago and seriously did not enjoy it.

[Voros]

What one was that?

[Spike]

Valdez is coming.

[Voros]

Haven't seen the movie, but I have the book, what was it you disliked?

[Spike]

Oh, god... where to begin....

Well, first it was amazingly lifeless and tedious, especially for a Leonard work.  There were maybe two or three legit spicy exchanges... for example the "Rabbit Gun" scene leaps to mind.  So it fails as entertainment.  Mind you, it WAS well acted and well cast, so we have a real combination of writer and director failing to give this excellent cast anything to do.

Second the driving plot/story was just about the meanest, lowest grubbiest you can imagine. I can imagine good stories can be told about the small details, but the film tries to make a simple quest for money for a funeral into an epic revenge tail, and Epic Revenge just doesn't fit the scope, which leads me to point three...

Third: I'm more than a bit of a cynic when it comes to humanities capacity for violence and evil, and 'Valdez' challenged even me to swallow how very vicious and mean spirited everybody was.  Well, I guess everyone except Valdez himself.  The widow he's trying to collect money for doesn't seem to care about her murdered husband's burial, the husband was murdered because he was used as a scapegoat for the wife of a rich man to cover her own murder (of her husband), the wife's lover goes along with it because he's too stupid to realize she did it, and he's also a coward and a vicious sadist... on and on and on the litany of petty human failings, stacked like cordwood into this tiny handful of people.

Four: Also on the topic of Epic Revenge, the climax is a letdown.  Valdez's EPIC REVENGE is... to humiliate the Rich Man (who, I'll point out, was so very sadistic, petty and vicious enough to crucify him and leave him to die... over being mildly persistant in asking for charity money...) in front of his own men.  That's it.  Its a high-noon showdown with no shooting.   Could be an innovative and clever twist, but winds up just... dragging on until a random cut finally, mercifully, ends the scene.

I could go on, but eventually I'd have to re-watch the film to get the details right, and that's just not worth the price. Also, this is the book thread.

[Voros]

Thanks, I plan on reading the book soon so it will be interesting to contrast.

Some of your description reminds me of the Western novella 'The Vultures of Whapeton' by Robert E Howard where the antihero at the centre of the story encounters not only a band of outlaws but a town of locals that are almost as untrustworthy, but even the protagonist is no angel.

It is a much harsher piece of work than the Conan stories, which have an underlying romanticism, and is up there with 'Red Nails' as one of the best things Howard ever wrote, apparently he considered it among his best as well. It is also one of his last stories before his death. Make sure you get the version with the original downbeat ending, it is available in Penguin's excellent Howard collection and the University of Indiana's collection of Westerns by Howard.

[Spike]

i'll look it up, thanks. howard is always a good read in my experience

[kosmos1214]

Well I'm here to kick in A book review for Walking the tree by Kaaron Warren Published by angry robot press originally in 2010.

Now I'm not fully sure how else to say this but to put it lightly this book sucks. If I had to describe whats wrong with this book in A short sentence I'd say wasted potential.
It want you to be enamored with all the cultures of the tree that it never actually shows us.
Instead we get foot notes like the kind you my have in A unfinished draft. It talks about how they sing but not what they sing. the way the dance but not how they dance or why.
Amazed by the ecological diversity that isn't show cased enough to be interesting and in most cases isn't that amazing to begin with.

Let me expound on this A bit more here's the description from the back of the book.

Botanica is an island, but almost all of the island is taken up by the Tree.

Little knowing how they came to be here, small communities live around the coast line. The Tree provides them shelter, kindling, medicine – and a place of legends, for there are ghosts within the trees who snatch children and the dying.

Lillah has come of age and is now ready to leave her community and walk the tree for five years, learning all Botanica has to teach her. Before setting off, Lillah is asked by the dying mother of a young boy to take him with her. In a country where a plague killed half the population, Morace will otherwise be killed in case he has the same disease. But can Lillah keep the boy’s secret, or will she have to resort to breaking the oldest taboo on Botanica?

Now I know what you are thinking this sounds like A cool idea but calm your enthusiasm all most all of that is ether irreverent or essentially nonexistent in the book it self.

To explain in more detail I need to get A bit in the how the chapters are split up.
The 1st chapter is 117 pages long well written and pretty interesting and give the full set up from the back of the book. the 2nd chapter is about 55ish pages if I remember right and the 3rd is about 40. every chapter after that is about half the size of the 3rd chapter the smallest is 17 and the biggest is 25 pages in A book that something like 500 pages.
Now that might sound pretty normal but remember the 5 year journey? Whats not on the back of the book is that in each village they then stay for 28 days and then we have travel time some time over 100 days travel between locals.
This turns in to an even bigger problem at the end of the book where in A single chapter do to plot reasons the main character ends up traveling an extra 3 years for A total of 8 that is obviously intended to seem magical and wonder us but ends up being boring and flat.

Now I expect you are starting to see the problem there's simply not enough time to do anything let alone anything interesting.

Social political jockeying to hide the fact the kids sick? Nope. Discussions about what to do ? Nope.
That lack of detail slowly but surely mounts up and the book suffers.
There are several characters that should obviously be major characters but never have any screen time or diolog to be such in one case the one girl Ruth has only 3 or 4 lines of dialog in the whole book.
If the entire book was written like the 1st chapter it would atleast be interesting. It would also be A 2500 page epic but I'd take that over what this book is hands down.

The book even seems to be aware of this and for the majority of the book makes no mention of how he's doing. Not en-till the resolution of the book which is built A grand reveal that you have frankly likely guessed if you where paying attention.
Then we have the whole lack of A culture. It starts out interesting Being An island they worry A lot about not having kids with any one you are to closely related to (that's why they send girls of as teachers). Or like how she gets A bit of slack in being let go off to check on how her bothers wife's birth is coming ( less 50s there's A bunch of men standing out side and then they all pile in to see the new born baby and more Big red ones birth in A tank but much more graphic). But this like so meany other things gets irritating and tiring as the book go's on because it's used as A stand in for an actual culture. All we really get are how they make there bowls and dishes The occasional local belief and the same creation story that's slightly different from location to location but unlike real creation myths is to samey to be considered creative or interesting.

Then we have the plot or lack of plot would be A better phrase and the occasional random political shoehorning that is pretty much the author 2 second long political self masturbation, and the complete lack at A sense of the passage of time.
Which is rather important in A book about A multi year journey.None of which is helped by the fact that despite being explicitly told how well the school system works no one remembers enough about there schooling to know basic things that every one should know about some of the stops considering every one go's on these journeys.
You know little things like the village that at the greeting party that night will grab one of the teachers and break her legs so she has to stay. Or the village where abuse Isn't condemned it's condoned. You know little things people would kind of remember and worn people about.


All of this is on top of the fact that the book ends up being about pretty much nothing in the end of it all.
The great journey? No we would have to see it. The vastly different cultures of the tree? Again no we would have to see it. Female empowerment or strength? No again Morace pretty much has to drag her to the grand reveal. How nothing stays the same?   No because the book would need to actually show the passage of time and the fact that the world does change around us.

Now I know what you are thinking damn he's being hard on this book and to be honest I am but for reason I wanted to like this book and I can see what it wanted to be.
The author has some talent but in all honesty I think they kicked this book out the door rather then finish it and do to that fact if I'm being honest I will think twice before I pick up another book by them.

As such I cannot recommend this book in any way not even to mine for gaming material what little is here would all be to easy to ether come up with on your own or get from other sources.

If you feel some desperate need to read this book read the first 3 chapter and the last 5 skip all the in between and if you pay more then A dollar you are being robbed blind.

[kosmos1214]

Any advise for A guy who would like to read the Spanish books of chivalry???

[Dumarest]

Passin' Through aka the best Man with No Name. Also possibly the trope namer.

I think I've read every Louie L'Amour story except fir the Sackett series.

I've also bypassed the Sacketts, although they show up in some of his other books as well. Passin' Through   is a good one. The titles tend to blend together for me. I'll have to look at the back covers to remember which novel is which. Hondo is another good one I remember, especially the desert survival methods he talks about.

Maybe someday I'll get to the Sacketts, but right now I prefer the standalone books.