Good Luck with your new venture Levi! It's hard to say if I'm creative or articulate enough to contribute to the types of conversations you want to have there, but you got my account and hopes I'll have something really mind blowing to say at some point.

Quote from: JamesVGood Luck with your new venture Levi!

Thanks!

Quote from: JamesVIt's hard to say if I'm creative or articulate enough to contribute to the types of conversations you want to have there,

Bah.

Walk into Deconstruction and tell us something cool about your game.  We'll dig.  Maybe we'll strike gold, maybe not.  No big deal.

Quote from: SettembriniThe pure concept of reporting something behind the back of the involved person is fascism.

I said that way back then. They laughed at me.

In the interests of full disclosure, I'm laughing at you for saying it now, too.

C'mon. Fascism? It's words on a screen, bro.

Go outside. The sun is shining. You'll feel better.

Quote from: JimBobOzWe have a very fine English language. Let's use it.

I agree with everything you said.  Why are you quoting me?  I was mocking the use of the word fascism, as I've done before in this thread.

Quote from: C.W.RichesonI agree with everything you said.  Why are you quoting me?  I was mocking the use of the word fascism, as I've done before in this thread.

I know. But others weren't. I quoted you as a response to and development of what you said, not as a rebuke to you.

Quote from: laffingboyIn the interests of full disclosure, I'm laughing at you for saying it now, too.

C'mon. Fascism? It's words on a screen, bro.

Go outside. The sun is shining. You'll feel better.

What if he's a vampire?

Quote from: Dominus NoxWhat if he's a vampire?

Then I'll feel better.

Quote from: laffingboyThen I'll feel better.

:rotfl:

Thanks guys, this thread was an interesting read.  I only found out about this ban yesterday and this thread and the long RPG.net thread gave me something to read while I was supposed to be working. :nono:  The first thing I thought when I discovered JimBob had been banned was, "How could they ban the guy who created the term Cheetoism?"

The claims of sexism and racism were never substantiated in that thread.  Many of the links that various people did to JB's alleged offenses were fairly poor examples.  JimBob, I remember reading the thread at the time when you snarked at SteveD for his "We get together and create awesomeness" contribution to the discussion about building a working group.  I like SteveD and his posts, but you were right on the money, I think.  That comment was worse than unhelpful, it could actually make people believe their group is irreparably dysfunctional when it isn't.  Your tone was more aggressive than I would have posted, sure.  Still, I don't think it should have been held up as an example of transgressions worth banning.

Since I don't read their announcements very often, I didn't even know about Rule 10 until this whole mess.  Personally, I'm not really against it in theory.  But I think it's stupid to hold it up as an iron-clad rule like many people are doing.  "Of course he was banned for breaking rules!  He broke Rule 10!"  Except Rule 10 effectively means: "It's against the rules to not break the rules if you do it long enough."

I used to frequent Tangency there.  I've never been a prolific RPG.net poster, I mainly lurked.  I agree with the sentiments that it's become poisonous for the forum as a whole.  I found a much better general discussion forum elsewhere and kissed Tangency goodbye for good.

As for Kiero, while I don't think he should be banned, I certainly don't think he (and others like him) need to be coddled like he is.  Questioning his gamerness based on his history is certainly valid.  Hell, I remember when he was just an angry unregistered NPC who railed against d20 any chance he got, to excess.  He registered, seemed to mellow some, and then transformed into an RPG-hating paradox.  I'm frankly jealous of his ability to stir debate with questions I personally regard as empty and pointless.  ("Navel-gazing" was a good term.)  He admits he hates gaming in the styles enjoyed by 90+% of the posters and then starts thread after thread of "I don't like this part of how you roleplay, is it really necessary?"  And I firmly believe that when he threadcraps in other people's threads, he should be strongly called on it by fellow posters.  It's pretty clear that the mods consider this too aggressive and inappropriate.  They seem to push reliance on the "report post" button and then point to the number of reports as a defense for their modding style.

Anyway, sorry for the necromancy.

Quote from: Quintin StoneAnyway, sorry for the necromancy.

Welcome to the forum, regardless!

And now that you've got that out of your system, I highly recommend taking a peek at some of our gaming-related threads, as they're most tasty and delicious.

Oh, and I'll say it up front:  Keiro annoys the piss out of me sometimes.  I don't think he should be banned, certainly.  But every post he makes strikes me as having an undercurrent of, "I hate all you gamers and if you'd just stop gaming like me then life would be perfect."  I realize this is probably completely irrational and unfounded.  Just a gut reaction.

Thanks, RedFox.  You, and many others here, are familiar to me from my years at RPG.net, even if the reverse isn't true.

And I'm certain that Kiero's long post on being embarrassed by the hobby does nothing to dissuade you of your opinion on him.

Quote from: RedFoxOh, and I'll say it up front:  Keiro annoys the piss out of me sometimes.

Kiero has made it nearly impossible for me to give Wushu a chance.

Quote from: William G. GruffWushu has made it nearly impossible for me to give Wushu a chance.

Fixed.

Quote from: fonkaygarryFixed.

:heh:

Quote from: Quintin StoneThe first thing I thought when I discovered JimBob had been banned was, "How could they ban the guy who created the term Cheetoism?"

Maybe to give fuel to the fire of RPGPundit's paranoid delusions? After all, if there were really were a Swine Conspiracy at rpg.net, then Cheetoists would be just the ones they ban, yes? Maybe that's why Old Geezer kisses mod arse so much, hoping to balance things out

Quote from: Quintin StoneThe claims of sexism and racism were never substantiated in that thread.  Many of the links that various people did to JB's alleged offenses were fairly poor examples.

The simple fact is that I was never suspended or warned for sexist or racist comments. So perhaps some users read racism or sexism in my comments; either the mods missed the offending comments, or they didn't think they were offensive - at least not offensive in a racist or sexist way. Note that no mods said I was banned for sexist or racist comments. That was just grave-dancers saying, "fuck him, he was fucking bigot anyway."

People can read a lot into your words. I was once accused of being "a typical right-wing Christian male." Only one of those three descriptions ()right-wing, Christian, male) is correct, and anyone who'd read more than one of my posts would realise that.

Quote from: Quintin StoneExcept Rule 10 effectively means: "It's against the rules to not break the rules if you do it long enough."

In intent, rule 10 means that if you're a rules-lawyer and don't break any rules, but are still a real prick, then they can ban you. In practice it's very much open to abuse, so that if this or that mod dislikes you, you can be banned. Whether it was a fair use of the rule, or an abuse of it, well my own answer will be obvious, but others have to decide for themselves.

Quote from: Quintin StoneI agree with the sentiments that it's [Tangency] become poisonous for the forum as a whole.  I found a much better general discussion forum elsewhere and kissed Tangency goodbye for good.

I wouldn't say "poisonous", but rather, a distraction. As noted in this thread, the mission statement of the mods is to be as welcoming to as wide a range of users as possible. If nothing else, that clashes with the title of the forum, "rpg.net". A forum needs a degree of focus, or else people won't be able to consistently discuss this and that topic they're interested in, and will go elsewhere. Going by the weight of threads posted, rpg.net is no longer about roleplaying games; a better name would be, "US politics, keetoms and pr0n net".

Quote from: Quintin StoneAs for Kiero, while I don't think he should be banned, I certainly don't think he (and others like him) need to be coddled like he is.  Questioning his gamerness based on his history is certainly valid.

It's not under question. He has posted a thread saying, "Why I am not a gamer" - apparently it's linked somewhere in the rpg.net monster thread on my banning. He has said he doesn't consider himself a gamer.

The main issue, as I see it, is focus. To thrive, to have interesting, amusing and useful conversations, a forum needs to have some main topic or topics. Having some focus makes the interactions with others more interesting. If you say to your friend, "come over, hang out," you may have fun, but not as much fun as if you say, "come over, hang out and - [roleplay, play soccer, watch DVDs, have sex, etc]". The activity you both enjoy makes for a more fun and interesting time together than if you just "hang out."

I made the mistake of assuming that rpg.net is about rpgs. It was once, but not anymore. As welcoming to as wide a range of users as possible, remember. Not "as wide a range of users interested in rpgs", but "as wide a range of users."

Try going to down to the pub, and take up a few tables, but don't buy any drinks, every day for months. See what happens. If the rpg.net mods were running that pub, when the drinkers asked the non-drinkers to get off the bar so they could buy a drink, the bouncers would throw out the drinkers. After all, the pub has to be welcoming to as wide a range of people as possible...

:wtfsign: