I just saw this on trouble tickets and the temptation to open up another thread was overwhelming because this is just so utterly ridiculous. But then I've been making a nuisance of myself in trouble tickets recently, so it would just be closed down immediately and a black mark put against my name.

Jim Bob, I think this is an absolute shame and a very sad day for rpgnet, since you contributed a hell of a lot to the forums with countless well thought out and intelligent posts. I'll miss your insights. What saddens me more is that it appears that the upshot of all those threads questioning whether rpgnet was overmoderated and the chorus of "four legs good, two legs bad!" that drowns out any discussion has been to embolden the mods further and make them feel even less constrained in their biases. That anyone could read the manner of your banning and not think that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark would seem to be beyond belief, except that the evidence has shown that this will undoubtedly be the case.

I'm just glad that Cessna was considerate enough to provide a link to this place a while ago...I checked it out at the time, and amazingly enough my eyes didn't burn or wither away from the horror of it all. This is my first post, but unfortunately, the more I see of the trend in rpgnet, the more sure I am that this will not be the last.

Quote from: Illegible SmudgeI just saw this and the temptation to open up another thread was overwhelming, because this is just so utterly ridiculous, but then I've been making a nuisance of myself in trouble tickets recently, so it would just be closed down immediately and a black mark put against my name.

My personal advice is not to post a new thread to Trouble Tickets. They already closed down one; that means they don't want another! If a person doesn't want to discuss something, constantly prodding them about it won't improve matters.

In general, private emails and comments will be better-received than public ones. There's nothing special about rpg.net in this regard - if you're confronted publicly about anything, you're more likely to respond with hostility than if you're confronted privately. It's just human nature.

Quote from: Illegible SmudgeJim Bob, I think this is an absolute shame and a very sad day for rpgnet, since it you contributed a hell of a lot to the forums with countless well thought out and intelligent posts. I'll miss your insights.

Thankyou for your compliments. I would say, firstly, that I am far from unique, and there remain many fine and interesting posters, and rpg.net will still be well-worth checking out, and posting to (for those of us who can). So keep checking it out!

Secondly, you can always find my words here, and at my blog, and of course by email, so it shouldn't be a worry for you. Like Pundit, I'm sure I'll continue to pull interesting threads and posts from rpg.net to respond to here and elsewhere. It's unfortunate that I'll be missing out on those conversations, because the worth of a conversation isn't just one poster, but all the people in it - and most of the people won't be seen here and in other forums, one's more than enough for them.

Quote from: Illegible SmudgeThat anyone could read the manner of your banning and not think that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark would seem to be beyond belief, except that the evidence has shown that this will undoubtedly be the case.

I think it's entirely fair for them to ban people based on nothing more than personal dislike. It's a pain in the arse, but we have to accept that a forum is like any other kind of social group. It's not entirely rational.

Quote from: Illegible SmudgeThis is my first post, but unfortunately, the more I see of the trend in rpgnet, the more sure I am that this will not be the last.

As I've said before, different forums are good for different kinds of discussions. rpg.net is good because it has so many posters, so you'll always get very different kinds of views, whatever you post. This, being a smaller forum, is a bit closer to being in your game group, or club, and talking shit.

I've been surprised at the number of people who give a shit whether I'm banned or not, it's quite flattering. I'll say again that I'll miss the conversations there. They just need a few more mods with active game groups to give them perspective

Quote from: JimBobOzBut the proof's in the pudding, really. What percentage of the posters here are female? And what percentage on, say, rpg.net?

I get what you are saying. I wonder though, is there a PC like mentality when it involves specific groups which has become more or less dogma on TBP. More and more I get the feeling that there is an acceptable mode of thought - esp on Tangency - which if you don't adhere to, joke about or argue against (with any spirit) it is considered as if you looking for trouble.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RI wonder though, is there a PC like mentality when it involves specific groups which has become more or less dogma on TBP. More and more I get the feeling that there is an acceptable mode of thought - esp on Tangency - which if you don't adhere to, joke about or argue against (with any spirit) it is considered as if you looking for trouble.

I don't think it's "PC". If it were politically-correct, there wouldn't [porn monday] or h4wt chixxor cosplay threads. I guess you might call it Lonely Geek PC - nice words, nasty actions. White straight middle-classed kids who've never in their lives met a gay or black person try hard not to seem bigoted. There was a thread a while ago where someone timidly asked what he, a straight guy, could do to help the position of gays in society. The feeling I get is that there are lonely geeks tentatively stepping into the world of diversity, trying not to offend anyone - in between the occasional wank over the h4wt cosplay chixxorz.

I certainly think that Tangency Open is the source of much that happens on rpg.net in its style and moderation. All the stuff about racism, sexism, etc - it just didn't come up on Roleplaying Open. I think it's a bad sign when a poster has something political in their signature on rpg.net. Every time I see a quote from Al Gore or some shit, I think, "mate, what are you here for?" The very fact that asking that question was considered "passive-aggressive trolling" shows how much Tangency dominates rpg.net in terms of moderation.

As a large forum, they must of course have more proscriptive than prescriptive moderation. But I think that to a degree this proscriptive approach has made them forget the things they should still be prescribing - roleplaying games. Tangency could evapourate in a server fart one day, and the forum would go on; if the roleplaying parts of the site were to be unusuable, the left-over Tangency part would become just irrelevant, about as useful and popular as the old Nutkinland forums. I think they've forgotten what they're there for. I'm not sure what proportion of the moderators and admins actively roleplay. They certainly don't talk their gaming much. I think they've lost their way.

Not that it matters to most of the users of the forums, though, who can happily post and read as much as they want about rpgs

QuoteI certainly think that Tangency Open is the source of much that happens on rpg.net in its style and moderation. All the stuff about racism, sexism, etc - it just didn't come up on Roleplaying Open.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.  Shit like that came up all the goddamn time on RP Open.  Some of it's most legendary flamewars centered around shit like that.  Usually it was because of some dumbass game like PIMP or GRIMJIM's stupid "Guide to Women Gamers", but there were plenty of other times when it just sort of popped in out of the blue and derailed a thread.

And there was, for some time, quite a different atmosphere in how the two forums responded to these sorts of incidents, which only fueled the wierd gulf between the two.

Actually, you're right, it did come up on Roleplaying Open. But only sometimes. Whereas issues of politics, gender, race and sexuality come up every single day on Tangency Open. So...

Quote from: JimBobOzActually, you're right, it did come up on Roleplaying Open. But only sometimes. Whereas issues of politics, gender, race and sexuality come up every single day on Tangency Open. So...

You of course have a point there as well (or at least enough of one that I don't care enough to argue with.   )

RP Open had plenty of shit like that, but with Tangency, it was the main course.  Such is the nature of an offtopic board on a web forum.  Unless you ban the politics altogether, it happens.

Well it's irrelevant to me, in any case. I certainly have my own prejudices, but I was not banned for any expression of them.

Well, it ain't the end of the world. Hell, I've rarely ever gone to RPG.net except to read the occasional review linked from elsewhere, and my history as a poster there is even more thin. There's a whole 'nother posting universe out there.

In a word?
REVOLTING.

In three additional words?
Yet not unexpected.

I'd keep going, but I've been trying very hard not to bring the moments Big Purple makes me throw up in my mouth over here. However, I'm pleased to still read your oft-ascerbic wit over here. We just need to rope a couple idiots over for you to work over.

That "only gamers know who Monte Cook is" crack nearly made me wet my pants, and I bet that's where this got warmed up from.

I'd certainly encourage people to keep going there, and to post. It depends on what you're after, I suppose - but if you want interesting gaming discussion, you can get it there. You just might get randomly banned or promoted to mod-hood some day, is all

So you were basically banned because comissar cessna and/or his buds didn't like you and came up with a vague, ill defined 'reason' to justify it.

At least they had to give a reason, on SJG the modclique doesn't even do that.

Anyway, sorry to see it happened if it bothered you. Take heart from the fzact that one day those assholes will fuckover someone who happens to be a good hacker, and hopefully he'll do something totally memorable and irrepairable to their server.

Quote from: Christmas ApeIThat "only gamers know who Monte Cook is" crack nearly made me wet my pants, and I bet that's where this got warmed up from.

Well, Kiero isn't what most gamers think of when they say, "gamer." He's tried games with groups face-to-face, and didn't like it. He plays the occasional infrequent face-to-face game with his missus, and runs a couple of play-by-post games. When you say, "roleplaying," for most gamers the mental image that pops up is a bunch of people around a table eating dice and rolling cheetos - or was it the other way around? I forget. The mental image is not of a guy sitting at his keyboard carefully crafting his single roleplaying post of the day...

So it may have been a cruel crack, but is a fair one. Kiero's a guy who presents himself as quite the gamer, and is a bit of a mascot for Roleplaying Open. But... he doesn't game, and he doesn't like gamers, he's said so often.

Him popping up and saying, "who's Monte Cook?" mate, it's like going to Alcoholics Anonymous and having a guy say, "who's Jack Daniels?" You gotta doubt whether he should really be there...

Apologies for the threadjack, but...

Quote from: Dominus NoxSo you were basically banned because comissar cessna and/or his buds didn't like you and came up with a vague, ill defined 'reason' to justify it.

At least they had to give a reason, on SJG the modclique doesn't even do that.

Anyway, sorry to see it happened if it bothered you. Take heart from the fzact that one day those assholes will fuckover someone who happens to be a good hacker, and hopefully he'll do something totally memorable and irrepairable to their server.

Dominus. I offer you a challenge with no risk or reward other than fulfilling or failing the challenge, which you may also ignore if you wish. But try this:

Go a week without talking about your hate boner for the SJG forums. One week. Seven days, one hundred and sixty eight hours, without mentioning it in any thread. Just to see if you can manage. I mean, it's not like it's offending me, but we get it. You don't like their moderation policies. But this isn't the "people pissed off with SJG forums" site. We're not here to nurse grudges.

To my knowledge.

Quote from: Dominus NoxTake heart from the fzact that one day those assholes will fuckover someone who happens to be a good hacker, and hopefully he'll do something totally memorable and irrepairable to their server.

I would not hope for that, that would be lame and stupid.

A much better revenge would be to GM them...

"Okay, Cessna, here's your character, a pacifist who's afraid of flying. MacLennan, here's yours, he's a wraethuthu who is under a geas not to use profanity. Curt? You're playing a straight Klansman." And so on. The GM is best placed to cause cruel revenge. You are just not imaginative enough, Dominus Nox. How on Earth do you manage to GM?