Quote from: RPGPunditTheir incredibly tunnel-vision Pro-Euro slant in their coverage of the results of the Irish referendum is totally unbecoming of them.

BBC coverage aside, there is something a bit unprincipled about the chill of Irish voters towards the EU now that they're a rich, 'have' country, considering how enthusiastic they were about the enterprise back when when they were a poor country milking the EU for hundreds of millions a year.

Quote from: StuartIn the US your Democratic Party isn't left-wing... it's just less right-wing than the Republican party.  CNN isn't left wing, it's just less right-wing than Fox News.

Q.E.D.

I don't get a "left wing" vibe from CNN at all. Granted, I'm not the most political person in the world.

I also find that their melodramatic coverage sucks ass and lacks objectivity.

Quote from: Consonant DudeI also find that their melodramatic coverage sucks ass and lacks objectivity.

I think that accurately describes almost all of the news media these days. People forget that networks like CNN and Fox News are selling news. They're not nonprofits, they're not in this for the betterment of humanity. They SELL news.

Quote from: Consonant DudeI don't get a "left wing" vibe from CNN at all. Granted, I'm not the most political person in the world.

If you really want to see the bias in action with a minimum of effort, watch on election night and watch the smiles and scowls, especially if it's close.  In 2000, it was hilarious watching CNN go from smiles to frowns as they realized that maybe Gore wasn't going to get Florida and on Fox it went from frowns to smiles, except for Paula Zahn, who eventually moved from Fox News to CNN (for a while, Zahn was sitting there with an ear-to-ear grin as the guys around her looked like they were just told their dog had died).

Quote from: Consonant DudeI also find that their melodramatic coverage sucks ass and lacks objectivity.

I don't think it has anything to do with objectivity but with the need to fill up 24 hours with news that people want to watch, so on slow news days, they make mundane things like cats being stuck up in a tree or the police following a car thief into major drama that really doesn't fool anyone.

Quote from: HaffrungBBC coverage aside, there is something a bit unprincipled about the chill of Irish voters towards the EU now that they're a rich, 'have' country, considering how enthusiastic they were about the enterprise back when when they were a poor country milking the EU for hundreds of millions a year.

Wow!  You mean people actually vote out of self interest?

So why is it principled to act out of self interest and want to milk other countries out of hundreds of millions but unprincipled to now want to be milked?  Could it be that the countries that let themselves get milked are simply chumps?

But if you want to see real irony, look at an analysis at how much tax money each US state gets back from the Federal government for each dollar it sends there in taxes and then look at which way they vote in elections.  And what's hilarious is that both sides can get angry if you point this out to them.

Quote from: John MorrowIf you really want to see the bias in action with a minimum of effort, watch on election night and watch the smiles and scowls, especially if it's close.  In 2000, it was hilarious watching CNN go from smiles to frowns as they realized that maybe Gore wasn't going to get Florida and on Fox it went from frowns to smiles, except for Paula Zahn, who eventually moved from Fox News to CNN (for a while, Zahn was sitting there with an ear-to-ear grin as the guys around her looked like they were just told their dog had died).

Pro-Democrat bias =/= left-wing.

In the context of the Western political tradition, and the governments of the rest of the developed world, neither of the major parties in the U.S. is left-wing. The true left in the U.S. is politically marginal.

Quote from: John MorrowBut if you want to see real irony, look at an analysis at how much tax money each US state gets back from the Federal government for each dollar it sends there in taxes and then look at which way they vote in elections.  And what's hilarious is that both sides can get angry if you point this out to them.

No surprises there for anyone familiar with American economic and political realities (rather than the stuff yammered about in the media). The Red States in flyover country guzzle at the government tit, pausing to fervently preaching the gospel of free enterprise. It helps their feelings of self-worth to believe most federal money is spent on welfare for urban single moms, rather than admit that it's doled out to agribusiness, rural seniors, and the military in the form of massive pork spending.

Quote from: HaffrungIn the context of the Western political tradition, and the governments of the rest of the developed world, neither of the major parties in the U.S. is left-wing.

Yup. In the Malaysian context a successful "left" party would be :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Action_Party

although if you want an even further left party whose candidates managed some remarkable victories in the recent election there's :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_Sosialis_Malaysia

Regards,
David R

Quote from: John MorrowThere is a such a thing as left-wing bias in the news and it's every bit as bad, if not worse, than the right-wing bias at Fox News.

Hey, look.  John's throwing around horseshit terms like "left" and "right" again like they have a real and objective meaning, while either missing or ignoring the fact that the real media "bias" is simply appealing to commercial demographics.

!i!

Quote from: HaffrungPro-Democrat bias =/= left-wing.

Who would you prefer to win the next election?  Barack Obama or John McCain?

Quote from: HaffrungIn the context of the Western political tradition, and the governments of the rest of the developed world, neither of the major parties in the U.S. is left-wing. The true left in the U.S. is politically marginal.

What "Western political tradition" are you talking about?  The one that elected fascists to power?  The one that still maintains constitutional monarchs?  The one with governments that fund religious schools and regulates abortion more tightly than the United States does?  The one that treats the children of immigrants and even their children as foreigners, even though they've never lived in another country?  Are you including those traditions?  

And if you want to include the Japanese in on the fun, how about a country that executes people without warning, by hanging, and gives their ashes to the family as a way to let them know that the execution has been carried out?  Can I include that for "context", too?  

And you mean the "governments of the rest of the developed world" that, after blowing the crap out of each other a bit more than a half century ago (after doing the same thing nearly a full century ago), enjoyed not only American aid in rebuilding their countries and governments but also an American defensive umbrella throughout the Cold War and even afterward?

As for the "true left", how do you define that?  And for perspective, there are plenty of people on the right who consider the current Republican party socialists so would you accept the claim that the United States doesn't have a right-wing party, either?

I think you are simply bind to your own biases.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHey, look.  John's throwing around horseshit terms like "left" and "right" again like they have a real and objective meaning,

Yet again and again, people magically line up left and right on issue after issue.  It's not all that difficult to guess how various people here are going to line up, issue after issue.

Quote from: Ian Absentiawhile either missing or ignoring the fact that the real media "bias" is simply appealing to commercial demographics.

Of course it is.  That's why they are fawning all over Obama, throwing the more moderate Hillary Clinton under the bus after covering for her and her husband for years and that's why they fawned over McCain for years but will now throw him under the bus, too, because they really want Obama.  And if you haven't noticed, quite a few leading news programs and newspapers are bleeding their audiences away, so if they are "appealing to commercial demographics", they are doing a really crummy job of it.

Quote from: David RYup. In the Malaysian context a successful "left" party would be :

So what does a "right" party look like in Malaysia?  As far as I can tell, Malaysia has parties openly advocating Theocracy.  It also looks like Malaysia's parties are often organized along racial lines.

Quote from: HaffrungThe Red States in flyover country guzzle at the government tit, pausing to fervently preaching the gospel of free enterprise.  It helps their feelings of self-worth to believe most federal money is spent on welfare for urban single moms, rather than admit that it's doled out to agribusiness, rural seniors, and the military in the form of massive pork spending.

Not just the military.  Rural infrastructure, in general, is expensive.

So, tell me why any liberal urban Democrat would not want to cut federal taxes in the US, leaving more money in their state?

Quote from: John MorrowSo what does a "right" party look like in Malaysia?  As far as I can tell, Malaysia has parties openly advocating Theocracy.  It also looks like Malaysia's parties are often organized along racial lines.

One party advocates theocracy - PAS*.

The "right" parties would be the ruling coalition - Barisan Nasional**. They are based on racial lines - UMNO for the Malays, MIC for the Indians and MCA for the Chinese - and a few other parties and a whole different set in Sarawak & Sabah (although there the racial lines are blurred) - but after the setbacks of the recent election, when the main oppostion party PKR won big with it's multi racial composition, the Coalition is doing some soul searching which may lead them to open up their various parties.

*And since their success in the last election and acceptence by various secular voting groups, they have toned down their rhetoric. I think they realize that with the a new multiethnic party- PKR - which is the alternative to UMNO and heavily supported by the rural/urban Malay, their brand of politics is in danger of becoming obsolete. Furthermore, it's younger members realize that they will never control Malaysia, but they can influence - like any other political party - her destiny by appealing to a broader demographic.

**Strict adherents to the social contract within the constitution ghost written by the British. Although to be fair, after so many years the so called contract has been corrupted to mean anything by UMNO.

Edit: In case you are interested :

http://malaysiavotes.com/wp/2008/03/22/farewell-to-the-homogenous-malay/

Regards,
David R