I'll never be able to compete with Kirk, the writer's would sue me to oblivion if I actually won, and their lawyers would garnish my grand kids grand kids piggy banks. Plus that guy could pull way more ass then I ever could hope to.

(I like both Star Wars and Star Trek, but that really does make me a nerd.)(And I never tell convicts. It'd make my day twice as long.)

Damned double post.

Quote from: David Johansen;260439The fatal error of the Jedi wasn't training Anakin, it was the rigidity and arrogance of their philosophy.  If they'd trained him willingly.  If they'd made a point of seeing his mother freed and moved somewhere relatively comfortable and safe.  If they'd explained the birds and the bees and gave him a pack of condoms before assigning him to guard Padme.  If they'd taken a minute to wonder if brainwashed clone troops could be used against them.  If they'd let him sit on the council when he'd fought their war for them.  If they'd let him come when they confronted Palpatine.

Yeah I can't think of anything the Jedi could've done to save themselves.  And Yoda is pretty much the spokesman for the Jedi rigidity and arrogance.

If they'd turned him away Palpatine would have been able to train him in the ways of the Sith from a very young and impressionable age.  And he'd still have been the chosen one.

Hey look, someone actually got the point of the prequels!

Yeah, the Jedi had grown too powerful, too certain of themselves, too set in their ways.  And they lacked imagination.  I love it when Obi Wan screams "You were the Chosen One!  You were supposed to restore balance to the force!"

Seems like that's exactly what he did.  Also seems like the Force is decidedly True Neutral.

Quote from: Jackalope;260497Hey look, someone actually got the point of the prequels!

Yeah, the Jedi had grown too powerful, too certain of themselves, too set in their ways.  And they lacked imagination.  I love it when Obi Wan screams "You were the Chosen One!  You were supposed to restore balance to the force!"

Seems like that's exactly what he did.  Also seems like the Force is decidedly True Neutral.

The Word of God (George) states that Anakin didn't bring balance to the Force until he destroyed the Sith, that the imbalance was the very presence of the Dark Side, and that the Force--in D&D terms--is Lawful Good.  The ROTS DVD commentaries and documentaries make this plain as day.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;260509The Word of God (George) states that Anakin didn't bring balance to the Force until he destroyed the Sith, that the imbalance was the very presence of the Dark Side, and that the Force--in D&D terms--is Lawful Good.  The ROTS DVD commentaries and documentaries make this plain as day.

Yeah, whatever, the Word of Story Dynamics says otherwise.

Lucas lost his own plot, and is in total denial of what he wrote.  Now that he's an old man in a position of power, and the dynamic that underlies Star Wars has become his reality, he is unwilling to acknowledge the truth of his own earlier writing.

This much was obvious when he decided to neuter Han's character growth by having Greedo shoot first.  That Han is a guy who kills in cold blood before he meets Luke and Ben is of huge significance to understanding who Han Solo is.

(I am such a geek.)

Ah yes, the old "the writer doesn't understand his own plot" routine. It always comes up in Star Wars discussions sooner or later.

One of the prime tragedies of Star Wars is that so many fans think it's much more complicated and nuanced a universe than it actually is.

Quote from: Serious Paul;260495(And I never tell convicts. It'd make my day twice as long.)

Someone at the home office decided I was doing a Good Job and now I'm working shifts at a Methadone Clinic. I feel your pain.

William Shatner seems like the kind of guy who won't take shit from anybody.  Captain Kirk was a true bad ass.

Quote from: ticopelp;260416We're posting on an RPG board. No one here is not a nerd, I'm afraid.

I'm a geek.  I'm just generally intelligent, I can't claim to be a genius or anything like that.  A true nerd is about as intellectual as they come, or at least tries to be.  There's a thin line between the two but it's a line all the same.  

Quote from: Idinsinuation;260550I'm a geek.  I'm just generally intelligent, I can't claim to be a genius or anything like that.  A true nerd is about as intellectual as they come, or at least tries to be.  There's a thin line between the two but it's a line all the same.  

Don't try to smokescreen this. I just saw you praise Captain Kirk!

Quote from: ticopelp;260534One of the prime tragedies of Star Wars is that so many fans think it's much more complicated and nuanced a universe than it actually is.

Because otherwise we must admit that in the end the whole thing is just fucking lame and stupid.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;260587Because otherwise we must admit that in the end the whole thing is just fucking lame and stupid.

...and we can't do that.

Because at the heart of it they were meant to be watched and enjoyed as fun entertainment ....not term papers on philosophy.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;260587Because otherwise we must admit that in the end the whole thing is just fucking lame and stupid.

The really frustrating part for me is that, Empire is a really great movie. It's like for a brief moment, everyone involved in the trilogy realized....whatever.

Fans always like to point to their favourite scene and attach a significance to it, that maybe only they see. I'm no different. To me what Han was "about" was really not the Greedo shooting scene but rather the scene in Empire in Bespin, where the door opens, Vader stands up and greets him, and he instinctively fast draws his blaster and starts firing away. After when his weapon is unceremoniously taken away from him , he takes Leia by the hand and calmly walks in. Betrayed by a another scoundrel, in danger and in love with a woman....you just know he's been in this type of situation before.

So yeah, I didn't really enjoy the prequels.

Regards,
David R

I'm cool with it all being lame and stupid, really. I've never thought that Lucas didn't understand his own story. I just think he sucks.

Quote from: ticopelp;260534Ah yes, the old "the writer doesn't understand his own plot" routine. It always comes up in Star Wars discussions sooner or later.

One of the prime tragedies of Star Wars is that so many fans think it's much more complicated and nuanced a universe than it actually is.

I have no idea what you're talking about.  I have no delusions about the universe that Star Wars exists in.  I'm talking about story, the structure of the narrative and the archtypes it deals in.

The universe of Star Wars is totally gonzo anything-goes place where fantasy, science-fiction and Asian cult cinema collide.  It's complicated, for sure, because it's massive and full of contradictions, and that makes anything complicated (and not in a good way).  But nuanced?  Fuck no.  Star Wars is all about broad strokes, blatant stereotypes and obvious archetypes.

Quote from: David R;260592The really frustrating part for me is that, Empire is a really great movie. It's like for a brief moment, everyone involved in the trilogy realized....whatever.

It's because Irvin Kershner is a much better director than George Lucas.

QuoteFans always like to point to their favourite scene and attach a significance to it, that maybe only they see. I'm no different. To me what Han was "about" was really not the Greedo shooting scene but rather the scene in Empire in Bespin, where the door opens, Vader stands up and greets him, and he instinctively fast draws his blaster and starts firing away. After when his weapon is unceremoniously taken away from him , he takes Leia by the hand and calmly walks in. Betrayed by a another scoundrel, in danger and in love with a woman....you just know he's been in this type of situation before.

That's one of my favorites as well.  My absolute favorite Han moment though is when he totally blows his Bluff check, shoots the comlink, and tells Luke "Kid, we're gonna have company!"  I've been there.

QuoteSo yeah, I didn't really enjoy the prequels.

They're pretty bad.  Lucas took too much creative control.  His writing needs serious polish to be bearable, and it's better if other people direct his stuff.  Each of them has stuff in it that I really like, but the dialog is total crap, and Hayden Christensen is a very bad actor.  Very, very bad.  I can't tell if Natalie Portman was simply unable to act against him, or was so repulsed she just phoned it in.  Ewan MacGregor basically saves Attack of the Clones, but most of The Phantom Menance is painful to watch.

Revenge of the Sith is a pretty badass movie if you turn it off right after the scene where Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru look off into the Tattoonine sunset holding baby Luke, perfectly mirroring Luke's introduction in Star Wars.