This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.

Author Topic: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great  (Read 3906 times)

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« on: March 18, 2022, 11:03:35 AM »
Im still on a Star Wars kick, after re-watching the prequels for the first time in possibly a decade. And I came away positively suprised. The flaws where flaws, but it also had good stuff.

This got me to re-watch 'The Clone Wars' which I watched maybe 5 or so years ago. And my takeaways where not so positive. I have ALLOT of bugaboos with this show, but at the center is that its immensly boring. Maybe this is a George thing, (but certainly is a Filoni thing), but dear god can they not make their antagonists threatening. Its one thing to make your antagonists a bunch of moustache twirling villians with no pathos or twisted but interesting goals (heroes on both sides my ass - some token senators don't count), but do they have to be utterly incompitent as well?

Im left dully watching the screen waiting not if the heroes will win, but when. The only time I know the villians will score a victory is if its phyrric, against a bunch of jobbers, or would end the plot. And tense things Im scared to lose is still absolutely possible to accomplish even if the fate of the main protagonists and the overall story is already known.

But lack of stakes is my primary poblem, but it has much more. I find the characters pretty dull, I find what they attempt to recontextualize (IE retcon) to almost aways be for the worse, and I find its comedy annoying and often jarring.

And this has nothing to do with being a kids show. I like kids shows. Being mature isn't the same as being adult, and most adult media is not mature anyway. And I also know that War Drama is also possible in kids TV. Avatar the Last Airbender, or Exosquad, kept tension and stakes with murch harsher restrictions on violence then what TCN has. Its maddening because Filoni directed most of season 1 of ATLA, so Its insane that he didn't take away from some of its best writing.

This is ultimately my opinion, so whatever.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 16019
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2022, 03:13:01 PM »
The Cartoon? or the CGI show? Or both?

I found the cartoon to be ok. But both shows showcase how callous and often nasty the Jedi are. In some ways they are just as bad, if not at times far worse, than the Sith.

The CGI continuation mellows them a little. But not enough.

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2022, 03:20:52 PM »
The CGI continuation mellows them a little. But not enough.

The CGI stuff. I don't remember the Jed being particularly callous in the animated Tartakovsky shorts.

Ratman_tf

  • Alt-Reich Shitlord
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7294
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2022, 07:13:28 PM »
And this has nothing to do with being a kids show. I like kids shows. Being mature isn't the same as being adult, and most adult media is not mature anyway. And I also know that War Drama is also possible in kids TV. Avatar the Last Airbender, or Exosquad,

I just can't take Exosquad seriously. The fat burping guy killed it for me.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2022, 07:14:49 PM »
I just can't take Exosquad seriously. The fat burping guy killed it for me.

Oh it has its own flaws as well. Its very...toyetic and 90s in allot of places. I just dislike the excuse of 'Well its for kids'.

Ratman_tf

  • Alt-Reich Shitlord
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7294
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2022, 10:09:09 PM »
I just can't take Exosquad seriously. The fat burping guy killed it for me.

Oh it has its own flaws as well. Its very...toyetic and 90s in allot of places. I just dislike the excuse of 'Well its for kids'.

Me too. It's a dumb excuse wielded like a "Get out of jail free" card for bad storytelling decisions.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Armchair Gamer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • A
  • Posts: 2616
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2022, 10:24:48 AM »

  I watched The Clone Wars while it was being broadcast, and enjoyed it at the time, but I haven't really gone back to it (despite having DVDs) and have some reservations about it. Ahsoka wound up being a good character in the end, but I never really bought into the idea of Anakin having a Padawan--it just seemed to be too big a thing to go without any mention elsewhere. I thought bringing Darth Maul back was a major misstep, and a lot of the other stuff done with the Force (the re-interpretation of the Dathomir witches, the Mortis Trilogy) wound up weird and over-the-top.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 16019
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2022, 12:06:18 AM »
The CGI continuation mellows them a little. But not enough.

The CGI stuff. I don't remember the Jed being particularly callous in the animated Tartakovsky shorts.

Rewatch it then and try and do a clone trooper body count. Theres one episode in particular where Kenobi throws what looks to be dozens, if not hundreds of lives. But theres some pretty bad Jedi in the CGI series too.

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2022, 12:08:24 AM »
Rewatch it then and try and do a clone trooper body count.

I mean its actually pretty small, but its mostly by Droids or named bad guys instead of Jedi. I mean I like that the EU has materials backing this up, but the Tartakovsy series mainly consists of just fancy fight scenes and slow moments. And its mostly a series of shorts.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 16019
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2022, 12:10:19 AM »
And this has nothing to do with being a kids show. I like kids shows. Being mature isn't the same as being adult, and most adult media is not mature anyway. And I also know that War Drama is also possible in kids TV. Avatar the Last Airbender, or Exosquad,

I just can't take Exosquad seriously. The fat burping guy killed it for me.

I thought Exo-Squad was interesting. But not as great as it is sometimes painted to be. Yes it has some edge to it. But oddly despite its glaring flaws, the Battletech cartoon does it better. So does the Wing Commander cartoon. But something about that one really did not click with me.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 16019
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2022, 12:21:08 AM »
Rewatch it then and try and do a clone trooper body count.

I mean its actually pretty small, but its mostly by Droids or named bad guys instead of Jedi. I mean I like that the EU has materials backing this up, but the Tartakovsy series mainly consists of just fancy fight scenes and slow moments. And its mostly a series of shorts.

Theres a vid or two that do a body count. Its actually alot higher than I though in the CGI series. But then the cartoon was quite short as you say. Yet still racks up a body count. Quite a few due to this or that Jedi sending them in to die in droves. Sometimes not.

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2022, 12:26:44 AM »
Quite a few due to this or that Jedi sending them in to die in droves. Sometimes not.
Well that is more a stylistic thing. Because modern combat tactics are boring and unexciting. Dumb Cavalry charges are much more visually interesting.

Saying that the Jedi in the 2D animated thing racked up a large bodycount because their cold is akin to complaining about the impractical size physics of star destroyers.

AtomicPope

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • For a Brighter tomorrow...
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2022, 01:18:30 AM »
The Clone Wars series from 2008 needs to be watched in chronological order.  Here is the official order to watch the series:

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder

The best thing about The Clone Wars is their operatic story arcs.  What sells it for me is how it shows the Jedi Council as callous politicians who question whether or not Yoda is senile, so they humor him, and how they sacrifice the padawan Asoka Tano to a corrupt Republic to save face.  That was probably the best way they could show why Anakin would lose faith in the Council without being overt, so years later when he has a choice he doesn't side with the Jedi.  We got to see Yoda confront his Dark Side.  We got to see Sith sorcery clouding Yoda's mind, sending him visions and distractions.  There is a lot of fluff and filler like the occasional "monster" episode but I really liked The Clone Wars series (2008).

Zero the Hutt was fun.  His voice is like a cross between Cartman and Truman Capote; Cartman Capote.  I died laughing when he tried to run away.

Ratman_tf

  • Alt-Reich Shitlord
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7294
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2022, 01:41:45 AM »
And this has nothing to do with being a kids show. I like kids shows. Being mature isn't the same as being adult, and most adult media is not mature anyway. And I also know that War Drama is also possible in kids TV. Avatar the Last Airbender, or Exosquad,

I just can't take Exosquad seriously. The fat burping guy killed it for me.

I thought Exo-Squad was interesting. But not as great as it is sometimes painted to be. Yes it has some edge to it. But oddly despite its glaring flaws, the Battletech cartoon does it better. So does the Wing Commander cartoon. But something about that one really did not click with me.

I remember really liking the Wing Commander cartoon. Mostly the way the Kilrathi were portrayed as honorable, but only to other Kilrathi.
I should re-watch it to see if it's as good as I remember.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2022, 07:50:03 AM »
The best thing about The Clone Wars is their operatic story arcs.

What really bothered me about them was how frustrating and pointless they where. They often asked a question, and then resolved it with a no:

Will Anakins fate be changed by force gods? No.
Will Yoda learn anything important? No.
Will Maul achieve a secret empire? No.

The way it portrayed the Jedi as corrupt was utterly softball. The way they portray the war as a whole betrays the “hero on both sides” stuff. Having some token senators absolutely doesn’t count when 95% of everyone else is a giggling lunatic. It becomes that this was was unavoidable, Palpatine or not. And it makes Amidala wrong. This war isn’t a failure to listen. Turns out the outer rim is just filled with sick asshole aliens and sheeve did you a favor by making you an army to fight them.

TCW occasionally pretends at nuance, but only half heartedly, and then quickly returns to filler.