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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great  (Read 3143 times)

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2022, 09:15:17 AM »
To be honest, similar can be said about a lot of children’s cartoons in which the creators tried to be more mature. Indeed, it can be said for a lot of mature cartoons.

I don’t mind this very much. It’s unavoidable most of the time.

What I do mind is when fans do stupid stuff like place an accidental soft reboot on a pedestal despite it being 90% filler just because it came out during their nostalgic teenager years. That actually happened.

I didn’t watch TCW while it was actually airing, and quite frankly I’m not interested in watching anything Star Wars related. It’s being driven into the ground for the last few decades. I want to see new franchises, and hopefully ones that are better planned.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2022, 10:17:50 AM »
To be honest, similar can be said about a lot of children’s cartoons in which the creators tried to be more mature. Indeed, it can be said for a lot of mature cartoons.

Well media as a whole really. I don’t think it’s fair to single out Cartoons or childrens media when “adult” media is mostly just as immature if not moreso.

Edit: I also agree about star wars as a whole. Lets move on.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 10:20:01 AM by Shrieking Banshee »

Pat

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2022, 12:15:24 PM »
Rewatch it then and try and do a clone trooper body count.

I mean its actually pretty small, but its mostly by Droids or named bad guys instead of Jedi. I mean I like that the EU has materials backing this up, but the Tartakovsy series mainly consists of just fancy fight scenes and slow moments. And its mostly a series of shorts.
It's Samurai Jack with Jedi.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2022, 12:25:25 PM »
It's Samurai Jack with Jedi.
Yeah, which makes it awesome (if overpowered). Tartakovsky is welcome in my home any day.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2022, 01:43:50 PM »
To be honest, similar can be said about a lot of children’s cartoons in which the creators tried to be more mature. Indeed, it can be said for a lot of mature cartoons.

Well media as a whole really. I don’t think it’s fair to single out Cartoons or childrens media when “adult” media is mostly just as immature if not moreso.

Edit: I also agree about star wars as a whole. Lets move on.
Sure.

I make a distinction between “adult” and “mature” cartoons, or at least I try to. The current marketing buzzword for mature cartoons is “American anime.” Because they don’t have the content restrictions that children’s cartoons do, they’re typically overindulgent in gratuitous sex and gore.

Invincible is a generic superhero show with a lot of gore tacked on and plot twists that were clichés decades ago. The tone is inconsistent from scene to scene, with slapstick comedy one moment then people being dismembered the next. The gore serves no purpose besides shock value and “adult” credentials. It feels like a teenager’s idea of what maturity is and doesn’t even commit to its own premise.

I could go on about Vox Machina, DOTA, Castlevania, Blood of Zeus, etc. It’s really frustrating. While I’m disappointed Infinity Train didn’t get renewed, I’m glad it wasn’t picked up by an adult network because then it would probably go overboard with gore and sex like all of these shows do. And it was a pretty violent show to begin with, complete with characters being crunched (offscreen) into salsa under train wheels, characters being bisected and surviving for hours afterward, cute cartoon characters being tortured by misbehaving children, characters having their souls eaten by giant cockroaches, etc.

Honestly, I think the content restrictions made the gruesome death and torture in Infinity Train more creative than the generic “and then they exploded into puddles of gore” that the faux anime shows resort to. There’s only so many times you can see disposable characters explode into puddles of gore before it gets repetitive.

Speaking of, the faux anime usually handle death in even worse fashion than Game of Thrones did. Beyond the nameless extras who exist solely to be ground into red paste… named characters either die immediately after being introduced and therefore their deaths have no impact, or they get some mild characterization before being killed for shock value and thus their deaths feel more frustrating than anything else. The protagonists themselves are never actually in danger of dying, so it becomes a tedious exercise in waiting to see which of the deuteragonists get fridged first.

There’s a reason why the only animation I’ve ever watched more than once as an adult is Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. With everything else, I feel like I’m only watching out of a combination of desperation and obligation. It’s frustrating

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2022, 02:00:46 PM »
Invincible is a generic superhero show with a lot of gore tacked on and plot twists that were clichés decades ago.
The shame is the comic isn’t trying to be that. The source material is actually much more balanced in tone and less grotesque in its violence. The show is downright sadistic.

Its not “Superhero but fuckin dark maaaaaan”. Its a spiderman “coming of age” superhero story where the protagonist actually grows up, rejects a reboot, and has a conclusion to his story.
Its a Superhero story where consequences stick, and still filled with all the exotic superhero tropes (if you like them and I do).
Also there is no woke in the story. That was added in adaptation.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 02:30:41 PM by Shrieking Banshee »

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2022, 03:36:31 PM »
Invincible is a generic superhero show with a lot of gore tacked on and plot twists that were clichés decades ago.
The shame is the comic isn’t trying to be that. The source material is actually much more balanced in tone and less grotesque in its violence. The show is downright sadistic.

Its not “Superhero but fuckin dark maaaaaan”. Its a spiderman “coming of age” superhero story where the protagonist actually grows up, rejects a reboot, and has a conclusion to his story.
Its a Superhero story where consequences stick, and still filled with all the exotic superhero tropes (if you like them and I do).
Also there is no woke in the story. That was added in adaptation.
Yeah, making the space nazis multiracial undermines the whole space nazi thing.

For me, the most unbelievable part is that this is a universe where Heaven and Hell are demonstrably real but nobody behaves as if that makes any difference.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2022, 03:56:38 PM »
For me, the most unbelievable part is that this is a universe where Heaven and Hell are demonstrably real but nobody behaves as if that makes any difference.
I mean that 'Demon Detective' is a gag character in the comic. He shows up to make deductions about things that where publicly known 6 months ago. He doesn't have a dramatic scene where he is pulled into hell because 'He knows too much!'.



And while the setting is still by and large unbelievable, his existence (some guy with devil horns in a world of mutants and monsters), doesn't really prove anything to the avarage man. Outside of that, the setting was overwhelmingly high tech, instead of magic. I think Duplicate is a product of a magic curse, and thats it.

This is what I mean that what they changed may not seem like much, but it really changes the tone. It wasn't really going for gritty. I mean it would sometimes happen, but in a consistent way.
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Yeah, making the space nazis multiracial undermines the whole space nazi thing.

It also serves as evidence that the woke are never happy. Whats already reasonably diverse, must be a mcdonalds add.


The 'Wow your an UNBELIEVABLE bitch'-ification of amber is also a TV showthing.


The 'Twist' is that she was a reasonable girlfriend and they eventually amicably break up after realizing Marks shedule makes homelife together difficult.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 04:09:58 PM by Shrieking Banshee »

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2022, 07:26:52 PM »
There's this hilarious youtube video where a guy rewrites that scene so that Amber is sympathetic. Basically, she castigates Mark for being bad at coming up with excuses and she was just covering for him the whole time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AukwzDrgnMs


Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2022, 07:55:54 PM »
Back to 'The Clone Wars'. Its a frustrating show. I don't get why people give it such acolades.

AtomicPope

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2022, 10:55:33 PM »
The best thing about The Clone Wars is their operatic story arcs.

What really bothered me about them was how frustrating and pointless they where. They often asked a question, and then resolved it with a no:

Will Anakins fate be changed by force gods? No.
Will Yoda learn anything important? No.
Will Maul achieve a secret empire? No.

The way it portrayed the Jedi as corrupt was utterly softball. The way they portray the war as a whole betrays the “hero on both sides” stuff. Having some token senators absolutely doesn’t count when 95% of everyone else is a giggling lunatic. It becomes that this was was unavoidable, Palpatine or not. And it makes Amidala wrong. This war isn’t a failure to listen. Turns out the outer rim is just filled with sick asshole aliens and sheeve did you a favor by making you an army to fight them.

TCW occasionally pretends at nuance, but only half heartedly, and then quickly returns to filler.

The Jedi weren't corrupt, they had weaknesses and flaws that could be exploited.  That was the point.

Another point, a back story is not supposed to change the future.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2022, 11:46:24 PM »
The Jedi weren't corrupt, they had weaknesses and flaws that could be exploited.  That was the point.

They softballed the weaknesses and flaws then.

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Another point, a back story is not supposed to change the future.

You can still have consequences and threat even if the ending ends one way. As its done, The Clone War's stories have nearly no consequences, and are not tense in it of themselves. Have the Jedi loose a planet, or have a place they thought respected them loose faith in the republic. One way or the other it won't matter as the Separatists will be defeated in the end (even if they where winning), but it still makes the conflict tense. Having the republic win all the time against buffoons takes away all stakes. I end up rooting for the Separatists because they are the underdogs, that can't ever have a victory.

Its like they have a switch of 'Be stupid morons' that can be flicked to 'Uber compitence' for an episode if it means dragging out the conflict. Which makes the story extremly predictable, but also boring because the switch won't ever be flicked up at any other time.

But if you can't make tension, at least play up how cruel this war is, and how their opponents have no chance agains them. Make the Separatists actually nuanced. But don't throw ONE token bone their way (This makes the senators come off as ignorant and stupid) and make the rest of the separatists maniacs.

How about introducing some actual separatist heroes? Not some token senators. But somebody who is involved in the war and leaves us unsure who to root for. Especially if they are doing something like defending their home.

HappyDaze

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2022, 01:12:44 AM »
How about introducing some actual separatist heroes? Not some token senators. But somebody who is involved in the war and leaves us unsure who to root for. Especially if they are doing something like defending their home.
Star Wars is written for 10-year-olds. While adults may enjoy it, wanting it to become something aimed at adults is only going to lead to disappointment. Most 10-year-olds don't really want to consider that everything in real life comes in shades of gray. They'll find out soon enough.

While not a Separatist hero, Thrawn has become the token "bad guy doing it all for a good reason" since the Disney redesign of his character. You don't see too much of it in Rebels, but it really comes out in the novels (and perhaps the comics, but I haven't read those). Of course, he's also a total Marty Stu that should probably end up shacking up with Rey despite the age difference.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2022, 07:53:15 AM »
Star Wars is written for 10-year-olds.
As I said, I find most things written for “adults” are also mostly immature. Star Trek Picard, despite being more adult, is less mature then the more family friendly next generation.

And I don’t think Star wars was everything trying to appeal purely to children. The politics in the Prequels are not exactly aimed at them.

And Thrawn is pretty sue-ish.

Omega

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Re: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - I don't think its all that great
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2022, 02:20:01 PM »
Back to 'The Clone Wars'. Its a frustrating show. I don't get why people give it such acolades.

I wonder that myself. At times it feels more like the accolades are just revelling in the clone body count, and occasional jedi, as if that makes the show somehow better.

The series from cartoon to CGI does have some pretty good writing moments when it is not trying to be edgy with more clones being thrown in the grinder. But it also shows the jedi time and again as being just as bad as the sith. Just from the opposite direction. Becoming the monster they fear.